**** Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze) **** Updated (8/22/17)

jordanix

D4Ni13 wrote:

Does anyone know when he will be available for recruitment from Legendary Tokens? I see he is not in the pool for the moment, and I'm keeping my token and command points for a chance to get his covers. Have they said anything on this regard? Shouldn't he be in the pool by now?

I love Ghost Rider a lot (one of my favorites ), and I had thought of saving CP and tokens for the new season as well. But my brain keeps telling me that if I do all I will draw is the totally awful hulk.

Clintman

vudu3 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Since each of his powers is almost worthless if not at 5 covers, I think final composition will depend on whom do you plan to play him with and which powers in which colours they'll bring. Put 3 covers on the colour of a better power that you'll be bringing.

That's true for green and red but his black is perfectly serviceable at 3 covers in most conditions. Jean Grey hits you for a 4,000 AOE and you hit her back for 12,000 damage. That's all you need; 24,000 would be a tad overkill.

Unless you want to kill a 35K OML

simonsez

Clintman wrote:

Unless you want to kill a 35K OML

As someone still using 4* teams, I'm not a fan of strategy that starts with, "First, take 18k damage... "

Clintman

simonsez wrote:

Clintman wrote:

Unless you want to kill a 35K OML

As someone still using 4* teams, I'm not a fan of strategy that starts with, "First, take 18k damage... "

Show me one person that wants to take on a 400+ OML. It is less a matter of what you are a fan of and more a matter of what works.

Also, that black is wonderful against a hopped up 350+ Juggernaught.

simonsez

Clintman wrote:

Show me one person that wants to take on a 400+ OML.

That's pretty much my point. You're suggesting an upside to black5 predicated on a potential matchup most people aren't going to fight.

But hey, what do I know, I don't have any usable 5*s thanks to this random progression ****. So, show of hands, all you guys who are using a well-covered OML, how often do your retal nodes include a GR?

playoffbound

He'd be so much better if they changed either his green or red to strike tiles instead of attack.

StevO-J

I was thinking about GR in the survival node in Hearts of Darkness and then an question jumped into my head.

There are several survival nodes in Enemy of the State where 2* Wolvie or Gorgon come back after their first appearance. When they do and you have GR on your team does Penance Stare take the damage dealt during their first wave into account and add it to the damage dealt during their second wave? Or does it just take into account the damage during a single wave and when they are downed is the damage counter reset?

This could make quite a big difference I think, especially when Gorgon is in the first, fourth and sixth wave (iirc) on the final node of EotS. If I had to guess I'd say it would be the latter (damage reset) but I think it would be fair if the damage in earlier waves was also counted.

madok

StevO-J wrote:

I was thinking about GR in the survival node in Hearts of Darkness and then an question jumped into my head.

There are several survival nodes in Enemy of the State where 2* Wolvie or Gorgon come back after their first appearance. When they do and you have GR on your team does Penance Stare take the damage dealt during their first wave into account and add it to the damage dealt during their second wave? Or does it just take into account the damage during a single wave and when they are downed is the damage counter reset?

This could make quite a big difference I think, especially when Gorgon is in the first, fourth and sixth wave (iirc) on the final node of EotS. If I had to guess I'd say it would be the latter (damage reset) but I think it would be fair if the damage in earlier waves was also counted.

Too bad we are out of Sub 2 of HoD because you could have tested that theory on The Hood.

On another note, if someone hasn't beaten TBE today, they could test it against Beast since he shows up twice.

I'm going to agree that it is most likely the second option though.

Monged4life

Someone reported a bug with Beast where the first one placed a countdown tile, then died, then the second wave arrived and the second Beast used the countdown tile...

If that is the case then there's a strong arguement for the game seeing them as the same character.

goalbound

madok wrote:

StevO-J wrote:

I was thinking about GR in the survival node in Hearts of Darkness and then an question jumped into my head.

There are several survival nodes in Enemy of the State where 2* Wolvie or Gorgon come back after their first appearance. When they do and you have GR on your team does Penance Stare take the damage dealt during their first wave into account and add it to the damage dealt during their second wave? Or does it just take into account the damage during a single wave and when they are downed is the damage counter reset?

This could make quite a big difference I think, especially when Gorgon is in the first, fourth and sixth wave (iirc) on the final node of EotS. If I had to guess I'd say it would be the latter (damage reset) but I think it would be fair if the damage in earlier waves was also counted.

Too bad we are out of Sub 2 of HoD because you could have tested that theory on The Hood.

On another note, if someone hasn't beaten TBE today, they could test it against Beast since he shows up twice.

I'm going to agree that it is most likely the second option though.

I did try that and as you expected, it was 0 damage on Beast when he returned

ErikPeter

playoffbound wrote:

He'd be so much better if they changed either his green or red to strike tiles instead of attack.

Actually I think the Attack Tile generation is good; he's one of the better Attack tile producers in his tier, letting you double-dip the strike tiles that his teammates create. Paired with OML or HB's Strikes, just one Burning Rubber and your team's doing an additional 1K damage/turn (plus Strike-friendly cheap AoE ain't bad either). I suppose one or the other could pump out strikes to synergize with himself, at the cost of thematic clarity, but Hellfire's not super reliable and there are usually better options for spending Red AP.

simonsez

ErikPeter wrote:

Actually I think the Attack Tile generation is good; he's one of the better Attack tile producers in his tier, letting you double-dip the strike tiles that his teammates create.

I used to use him fairly often for this very reason. The problem is that War Machine has turned out to be a vastly superior attack tile generator who also uses red/green, plus provides an active blue. This pretty much relegates Ghost Rider to gimmick boss matches where you'd want to use his black.

Brigby

*Updated Ability Descriptions

Jaedenkaal

Hm. Seems like a reasonable buff to me.

Burning Rubber sees a 100% damage increase (base) for a ~71% AP increase, and the Attack tiles it creates are also about doubled in strength.
With 6 attack tiles out, the damage is only increased by 50%, but the AP cost at that point is actually reduced by 14%, for an overall damage/ap increase of 74%
Definitely a better power overall; sure it's harder to fire some of the time, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that the old version was terribly impactful for 7 AP, and there are many ways to get Attack tiles out on the board to make this a good, cheap team damage power.

Hellfire damage is up 21% - 38% (vs a single resolve of the previous power), but the damage is done immediately (instead of 2 turns later), and only requires that the target be a villain to do the boosted damage, rather than the majority of the team. It also creates more Attack Tiles (important for Burning Rubber), of higher combined strength, and creates them twice as fast (also important for Burning Rubber); the net effect is 324 strength worth of Attack tiles per turn, up from 117.5 attack strength per turn previously, a +175% increase.
Overall, I think this power compares pretty well to Pym Particles. It does (some) up-front damage, but creates fewer attack tiles. However, (unless something has changed) it can create Attack tiles of any color, so it has a higher ceiling than Pym Particles, and also can't be removed simply by overwriting the trap tile with a friendly special tile of some kind. Not to mention the obvious synergy with Burning Rubber. The rapid attack tile generation probably makes up for the loss of recurring damage in the long run. At worst a side grade, but probably a buff.

Penance Stare, obviously a buff; everything we liked before, for 3 AP less. 

Overall I'd say I pretty good boost. Unlikely to make him top tier, but not everyone can be. He has reasonable synergy with special tile creators (namely attack tiles), and I hear that's a thing lately.

poomermon

I really like ghost rider buff. I used him with carnage and c4rol in this boosted event and they worked really well together. Carol starts boosting tiles every turn with gr red and generates green. Carnage just makes attack tiles making gr green super cheap and cost effective. Actually I think Burning Rubber is the best aoe in the game when paired with carnage.

Jaedenkaal

poomermon said:

I really like ghost rider buff. I used him with carnage and c4rol in this boosted event and they worked really well together. Carol starts boosting tiles every turn with gr red and generates green. Carnage just makes attack tiles making gr green super cheap and cost effective. Actually I think Burning Rubber is the best aoe in the game when paired with carnage.

Well... One Fell Swoop, Don't Touch That Button (either mode), and Whiteout (with 10 or more Blue tiles on the board) all still have better damage per AP. But yes, once there are 6 friendly attack tiles out, it's pretty good.

hopper1979

I am liking the update so far I have mostly messed with his red which is a great spammer now and he very well with Carrol due to the every turn countdown (Blade and Human Flame get same benefit).  His green has potential as well on the correct team.  He is definitely more usable than before and like any "good" character you can switch between his red/green now depending on the team and with the reduced cost to black you have a solid nuke you can use mid game as opposed to waiting until the match is almost over..  

Jaedenkaal

hopper1979 said:

I am liking the update so far I have mostly messed with his red which is a great spammer now and he very well with Carrol due to the every turn countdown (Blade and Human Flame get same benefit). 

Probably not a coincidence, none of this will work with the next patch. All of those tiles become "Repeater" tiles, which function the same way individually, but do not trigger Executive Decision. (Or Call the Cavalry, or Secret Weapon, etc...). Fun while it lasts, I suppose.

hopper1979

Really, nuts! I did not pick up on that in the update section.  So for a countdown to activate those powers it must be removed from the board.  I understand why they are doing it but that is too bad.  Thanks for the heads up.

Jaedenkaal

hopper1979 said:

Really, nuts! I did not pick up on that in the update section.  So for a countdown to activate those powers it must be removed from the board.  I understand why they are doing it but that is too bad.  Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, the main change is that Repeater tiles don't have a timer that can be increased or decreased, and don't "expire". I think that explains almost all the functional changes.

Except Can't Seem to Miss and Goblin King, which presumably were designed to Fortify countdown tile so that they have a better chance of resolving, not to keep re-ocurring tiles from ever being destroyed.