Again - Getting Screwed in PvP

OneLastGambit

I think somethings do need changing in PVP, I wouldn't complain about the time or shield hopping (PVP is essentially designed for those willing to spend money on shields - so if you're not willing to spend money on the game then this mode is not for you) However I do feel that progression rewards shouldn't be affected by a loss of score - the most frustrating thing (in my opinion) with PVP is when I'm just about to get a progression reward beat an opponent for the amount needed and then find out when the match finishes that I'm actually further away from the progression because I got attacked during my fight.

To correct this simply make deductions from your score come AFTER the additions. That way the effect on my score will be the same but I will still hit that progression.

kensterr

Or play the old Ultimate Alliance which was pretty fun

GrumpySmurf1002

irwando wrote:

I appreciate that advice but much of it involves extended research, planning, and play at specific times. I can not and will not schedule my life around playing this game. It is a diversion, supposed to be fun, and fits in during the times that I'm able to play when not working, with my family, or any other commitments I have. So an option that says play one match and wait 3-4 hours just doesn't work.

irwando wrote:

I'd rather know that if I am an active player playing matches for hours it is worth more than the person sitting on the sidelines. Maybe that's too much to ask.

This seems contradictory.

As someone with a family (which from what I can tell is a large chunk of your top end, fwiw), I don't have time necessarily to play 4 hours at a time. That's why I (mostly) stopped playing PvE. That's where the schedule is on the game's time, not your own.

PvP is perfect for playing in bursts. 10 minutes here, an hour there. Only the end game of PvP requires any type of scheduling, and even then that's just 3 days a week with 3 options. No the 300HP shield isn't appealing from a value perspective, but it is there if your schedule is intense. To me, these complains seem like one of money, not time. Which is fine, but not a game problem.

Unknown

While we are busy talking about screwing over PvP.....I'm sitting shielded at 979. Need some of that friendly dumping of points.

Unknown

kensterr wrote:

Or play the old Ultimate Alliance which was pretty fun

Awesome game. Too bad the sequel was meh.

irwando

OneLastGambit wrote:

I think somethings do need changing in PVP, I wouldn't complain about the time or shield hopping (PVP is essentially designed for those willing to spend money on shields - so if you're not willing to spend money on the game then this mode is not for you) However I do feel that progression rewards shouldn't be affected by a loss of score - the most frustrating thing (in my opinion) with PVP is when I'm just about to get a progression reward beat an opponent for the amount needed and then find out when the match finishes that I'm actually further away from the progression because I got attacked during my fight.

To correct this simply make deductions from your score come AFTER the additions. That way the effect on my score will be the same but I will still hit that progression.

Yes to all of this. Any of this would help.

irwando

kensterr wrote:

Or play the old Ultimate Alliance which was pretty fun

Played it. And X-Men Legends 1 & 2. Lego Marvel. Wolverine. 3-4 Spiderman games. And Avengers Alliance for Facebook. Most of those were pretty great (Wolverine was much better than the Movie).

irwando

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

irwando wrote:

I appreciate that advice but much of it involves extended research, planning, and play at specific times. I can not and will not schedule my life around playing this game. It is a diversion, supposed to be fun, and fits in during the times that I'm able to play when not working, with my family, or any other commitments I have. So an option that says play one match and wait 3-4 hours just doesn't work.

irwando wrote:

I'd rather know that if I am an active player playing matches for hours it is worth more than the person sitting on the sidelines. Maybe that's too much to ask.

This seems contradictory.

As someone with a family (which from what I can tell is a large chunk of your top end, fwiw), I don't have time necessarily to play 4 hours at a time. That's why I (mostly) stopped playing PvE. That's where the schedule is on the game's time, not your own.

PvP is perfect for playing in bursts. 10 minutes here, an hour there. Only the end game of PvP requires any type of scheduling, and even then that's just 3 days a week with 3 options. No the 300HP shield isn't appealing from a value perspective, but it is there if your schedule is intense. To me, these complains seem like one of money, not time. Which is fine, but not a game problem.

For me my play time is 10-20 minutes in the morning before work and then several hours at night after my daughter goes to bed.

GrumpySmurf1002

irwando wrote:

For me my play time is 10-20 minutes in the morning before work and then several hours at night after my daughter goes to bed.

Replace morning with lunch, and add that I'm on Steam, with no flexibility unless I happen to be home.

PvP is way more easily fit into a schedule than PvE. That extra time when I'm hopping is spent on DDQ etc... Granted I'm now inching towards perma 4* play, but even with my 3* characters 1000 is not an issue on that schedule.

The hint as others have said is it's less about your roster and well more about understanding the PvP system. The timing, the mechanics, the intra or inter-alliance communication are all important cogs.

Unknown

ZeroKarma wrote:

I have to agree that the game is currently catered towards the top end. There needs to be an accelerated path to progress, but they have to balance this with making money. The whales are paying for stronger characters faster, and they won't do so if they can easily get it. Without that incentive they will cease to pay in and when that happens the game is over.

If these significant paths to progression are introduced so that casual players get somewhere near the experience the hardcore guys get, then they will have to invent new stuff for the hardcore guys in turn. Then that won't be achievable for the casuals.

It's a circular argument and one that won't have a satisfactory answer for you in a freemium game. They HAVE to incentivize purchases in order to keep the lights on and provide more content.

If, as you mentioned, you're not going to spend money on the game no matter what happens because you have no faith in the developers, then the only value you have to developers is: to bring in friends that will pay OR to be a fish in the pond that makes life interesting for the whales.

I can't imagine that this is not the same model for every other freemium game to varying degrees.

I disagree that the game is catering to the top end. I think it's flat out ignoring it, and I'm not saying that in any sort of spiteful way, I think it's just "as intended". Look at some recently reported "top end" stats.

49 alliances (less than 1,000 players) beat round 8 of Galactus 1. At the end of the last season your alliance standing probably showed that you ranked X out of more than 20,000 alliances who played in the season, granted that not all of those alliances were 20 deep, but that's 0.245% (at the highest) of alliances who were able to complete the top reward.
I'm sure more than that made it in round two, but even if it quadrupled, you're looking at 1% of the alliances getting 3 covers for a new character. Chances are good that most of the forumites were in alliances like that. But we are still a drop in the bucket. We're a very loud, but very small portion of the player base.

Then check out any of the times that the top used skills get reported. Some skills may skew high due to the DPDQ (I now use Repulsor Blast, Feral Claws, Wind Storm for example on a daily basis, where as a 3/4* player, I'd almost never use those skills anymore), but overall, most players actually play with those characters. 1-2* characters. This is a casual game where the expectation, from a game design standpoint, of people fully covering characters right away, maxing them out...never really existed except on the very fringe. It's intended as a long slog.

I think the game is designed (currently) to be in the 1-3* range. The rewards certainly reflect that. I believe more players have gotten above that range than were expected to, but that for the majority of casual players who play the game, stuff is as it should be. I haven't seen their numbers, I don't expect to see them, but what I would guess is, they're making more money on the rest of the population plunking down a few bucks to open a roster slot to hold onto the only cover of Iceman that they got, than they are from the super high end players buying up the rest of his covers to go crush top tier PVP.

Of course I want to see 4* placement rewards. Of course I want to complete characters without spending money. That's what I used to do (and mostly still do, but there are some exceptions). I am a player who was very accustomed to being in the top 1% (because let's face it, finishing top 10 in a "vet" bracket means you're not in any of the newbie brackets that likely outnumber the vet brackets) of the game. I was used to earning 4-5 covers of a new 3* character in their release PVE. Picking up one as a progression in their featured PVE. Picking up 4 more in the leadup to their PVP. Then a progression in their PVP. By the time the featured PVP was done, I'd expect to have 10-11 covers for that character, and probably complete them in a couple more weeks with token pulls. If I got lucky on token pulls I could have that character covered and maxed during their release without spending any HP. Now if I get that same amount from the release, I'm looking at having to finish 1st in the leadup PVP for one more cover (where top 5 used to be good enough for 3*, or top 10 for 2 covers), one at 1k in the featured, and maybe have 5 or 6 covers (the last two releases 4Clops, and Rhulk - 4 and 5 covers currently each). Until a couple months from now when another cover shows up at 1k again in PVP.

So yeah, I'd love to see some of those changes. I'm ready for them. Many of us on the forums are ready for them. I just don't know if the rest of the players are, or would even care or notice if they happened.

Stax the Foyer

irwando wrote:

I would happily pay for a game where I got good value and a fu experience.

Sorry, this typo was too amusing not to point out. I think we've found a new tagline: An F U experience.

DaveR4470

I try to schedule appropriately. I know how to shield hop reasonably, if not perfectly. I ground up to about 850 and 8-hour shielded with about 11 hours remaining in my Rulk shard. So the shield drop and final climb wasn't coming in the high activity 4-hours-before-conclusion zone, per my intent. I popped to 950 in two matches....

... and then lost nearly 300 points over the course of the next 3 matches from about 17 hits. (All my matches were wins, FTR.) I had to shield just to stop the free-fall and preserve the points for season placement.

So yeah, I'm sympathetic with the OP here.

TheXMan

946 with a 39 point match and 50 point match queued. Planned to beat first match and then whales to get 1000. Used boosts to go quickly and 1st match turned out to be only 2 points. Then used whales twice on 50 + matches but lost faster than I could gain. Wasted hp and a bunch of boosts. Since I switched to Deadpool instead of using max Fury and 248 Xforce lost over 300 points in minutes. Agree with earlier posts that it would be nice to get progression rewards and then deduct points.

Unknown

I would like to see progression and placement rewards calculated individually.

Progression: points accumulate as you win, points are only deducted when a match you initiate is lost or aborted.

Placement: current system.

This way we still get rewarded for the effort, and not completely penalized by finding out you've lost more points than you won in the time it took to finish a single match.

Tannen

TheXMan wrote:

Since I switched to Deadpool

Don't switch to Deadpool instead bring a Deadpool TU. That way your team stays "strong" and you don't get instantly eaten. If you don't have any Deadpool TU's, ask for them from your alliance. I've not used superwhales with the character Deadpool in my team for a very long time.

This pvp was particularly bad, much zombie-horde action was had.

Davan

PVP as it is now is a broken mess. I am 2* player working on gathering 3*s. I started early in the red hulk pvp and gathered up around 400points. At this point it's early so I don't care about losing points. At about 16 hours to go I start climbing. Now I'm only aiming for 800. I think that's respectable. If I put in the work I should be able to earn the 3* cover right?

I climb up to about 650 points and bamm only 3* options to fight. Okay, I like a challenge. So, I tackle some 120s and I'm doing okay. I'm using boosts and team ups.
Battles are only worth about 20points though even though they are more of a challenge. Give me an incentive to keep going and challenge myself! Give bonus points for stronger opponents!

Anyway I climb up to about 750 and I grind to a halt. Almost all battles are 166 3*s and not worth much points. Progress is stopped by an artifical wall created by D3's system. I shield for 8 hours while I sleep and wake up for the last 8 hours. I check my options and nope same low points and high level opponents. If i attemtp these fights I will lose 150points by being attacked while fighting them. So I shield again and place 78ish at the end. I get one cover and 25HP whoopity doo.

I looked at a lot of the people's rosters ahead of me. Almost all were done or close enough to being done with the 3* transition. The covers don't help them. I played the game as a semi whale. I used boosts, i spent HPs for shields, and spent a lot of time.

Rewards need to be retooled for those that need them. Maxed 2* should be able to get the 3* cover at 800 with a little bit of work and some boosting. If we had own 2* bracket we could actually have a good battle for the covers and at least more people transitioning would get covers they can use. Also the 1* pvp random cover rewards are insulting even to 2* players.

There are a lot of ways to improve pvp. Seperate * brackets, no artifically limiting player pools to battle, point bonuses for tackling tougher teams, bankable points that can't drop below a certain point after hitting it several times (this rewards those that spend a lot of time doing pvp and win most of their matches but get knocked down 300points several times), rescaled rewards, etc.

I am no longer willing to buy shields as it is a waste of hp and money for no gain at the 2*level. I would be better off buying a 10pack every now and then which might be D3s plan.

Quebbster

Davan wrote:

PVP as it is now is a broken mess. I am 2* player working on gathering 3*s. I started early in the red hulk pvp and gathered up around 400points. At this point it's early so I don't care about losing points. At about 16 hours to go I start climbing. Now I'm only aiming for 800. I think that's respectable. If I put in the work I should be able to earn the 3* cover right?

I climb up to about 650 points and bamm only 3* options to fight. Okay, I like a challenge. So, I tackle some 120s and I'm doing okay. I'm using boosts and team ups.
Battles are only worth about 20points though even though they are more of a challenge. Give me an incentive to keep going and challenge myself! Give bonus points for stronger opponents!

Anyway I climb up to about 750 and I grind to a halt. Almost all battles are 166 3*s and not worth much points. Progress is stopped by an artifical wall created by D3's system. I shield for 8 hours while I sleep and wake up for the last 8 hours. I check my options and nope same low points and high level opponents. If i attemtp these fights I will lose 150points by being attacked while fighting them. So I shield again and place 78ish at the end. I get one cover and 25HP whoopity doo.

I looked at a lot of the people's rosters ahead of me. Almost all were done or close enough to being done with the 3* transition. The covers don't help them. I played the game as a semi whale. I used boosts, i spent HPs for shields, and spent a lot of time.

Rewards need to be retooled for those that need them. Maxed 2* should be able to get the 3* cover at 800 with a little bit of work and some boosting. If we had own 2* bracket we could actually have a good battle for the covers and at least more people transitioning would get covers they can use. Also the 1* pvp random cover rewards are insulting even to 2* players.

There are a lot of ways to improve pvp. Seperate * brackets, no artifically limiting player pools to battle, point bonuses for tackling tougher teams, bankable points that can't drop below a certain point after hitting it several times (this rewards those that spend a lot of time doing pvp and win most of their matches but get knocked down 300points several times), rescaled rewards, etc.

I am no longer willing to buy shields as it is a waste of hp and money for no gain at the 2*level. I would be better off buying a 10pack every now and then which might be D3s plan.

It's probably a good idea to stay away from battles worth only 20 points, particularly against stronger opponents. The retaliation will be worth 50 points to them, and against a weaker team that's a no-brainer.
Unfortunately I don't know what you can do to find teams worth more points though. I guess skipping a lot is the best option, but I understand if it is not appealing. As your roster strength grows you should be able to find more opponents though FWIW.

ammenell

from what you are describing, my roster is at about the same level as yours.

i did hit 800 three times in pvp, but that was parallel to the galactus event everyone dumped their health packs into.
now everything is back to normal and that 800 is just out of reach again, so i settle for the top 100 placement. since i have about every 3* i care about, i use hp for shields instead of roster slots.

and its still a waste.
i hit a wall at around 700, which is just around the top 100 mark in most of my slices. it seems like everyone is out for the leg token, because most of the players in the top 10 have fully covered 4*s, most of the 3*s are fully covered and leveled, and except the leg token every other reward will be sold. and then there is me hoping i can finish with my shield in the top100.

i think that system is a joke, just not as big as the ddq 4* joke.
there are endless ways to improve that, but being on this forum for about two months made it very clear how much user input is appreciated.

Ram51

Davan wrote:

PVP as it is now is a broken mess. I am 2* player working on gathering 3*s. I started early in the red hulk pvp and gathered up around 400points. At this point it's early so I don't care about losing points. At about 16 hours to go I start climbing. Now I'm only aiming for 800. I think that's respectable. If I put in the work I should be able to earn the 3* cover right?

I climb up to about 650 points and bamm only 3* options to fight. Okay, I like a challenge. So, I tackle some 120s and I'm doing okay. I'm using boosts and team ups.
Battles are only worth about 20points though even though they are more of a challenge. Give me an incentive to keep going and challenge myself! Give bonus points for stronger opponents!

Anyway I climb up to about 750 and I grind to a halt.o.

You can reach 750 as a 2* player? That's impressive man! When i was in the 2-3* transition with a roster softcapped at 94, 400 was the most realistic i could hope for without shielding. 620 was the highest i reached with shields. Eventually i grew sick of the low effort: reward ratio and joined pvp events in the last 45-60 mins. If i'm lucky i could get a fresh bracket and get Top 100, sometimes even top 50 placement with only 400pts or so. And if i get an old bracket i can still get the 25 hp progresion.

At the present PVP really only favors the 3-4* players. The 3* reward should be achievable at lower progression for 2-3* transitioners. By the time I could get 800-1k as a 3* player most of the 800pt progression rewards were useless to me.

ammenell

Ram51 wrote:

Davan wrote:

[...]
At the present PVP really only favors the 3-4* players. The 3* reward should be achievable at lower progression for 2-3* transitioners. By the time I could get 800-1k as a 3* player most of the 800pt progression rewards were useless to me.

exactly my point.
by the time you regularly reach, say, 800 points for the 3* reward you dont need it anymore.
im sure its the same with 1000 points and 4* transitioners and for most players the 4* ddq is about the same.

still, can somebody tell me where the advantage is in joining a slice ~60min before the end?
never tried that.