Why the 4* "Transition" is impossible

SnowcaTT

I might as well throw out one more solution here - why oh why hasn't in-alliance cover trades been implemented? "Cheating issues" between platforms is I believe the last answer....[something something about making sure "cheating issues are -immediately- removed from game.....]

I'll post another suggestion in 2016, since this problem will only begin to amplify. Here you go devs, another one for free now.

Players who have been in their current alliance may trade covers of an equal value (3* for 3*, 4* for 4*, and so on).
Players may only do this if they have been in their current alliance for thirty or more days.

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Can't pull a cover and try to find an alliance to trade it to, it will expire before your 30 days are up.
Will make mercing folks in and out of alliances not always as worthwhile.
Buyers club folks will have to consider when to buy and when to hold tokens.
Alliance loyalty (both to alliances and to players! You want those folks there for a long time!) are rewarded.
RNG isn't so brutal to everyone. You pulled a sixth XF black? Probably not covered by all 20 people in-alliance!

atomzed

SnowcaTT wrote:

I might as well throw out one more solution here - why oh why hasn't in-alliance cover trades been implemented? "Cheating issues" between platforms is I believe the last answer....[something something about making sure "cheating issues are -immediately- removed from game.....]

I would love to have trading implemented in the game, but it will never happen. There is no positive upside to D3 at all, and it only reduce their potential income.

OneLastGambit

I really cannot see why you aren't allowed to respect your covers as you please, whats that got a 553 cage when you want a 355? Just swap the covers around and respect. This can work at every level as well - got a 310 captain marvel and want a 013...why just respect it then my good friend!

You don't get more covers, you just get to re-shuffle the ones you have got.

SnowcaTT

OneLastGambit wrote:

I really cannot see why you aren't allowed to respect your covers as you please, whats that got a 553 cage when you want a 355? Just swap the covers around and respect. This can work at every level as well - got a 310 captain marvel and want a 013...why just respect it then my good friend!

You don't get more covers, you just get to re-shuffle the ones you have got.

I could see this happening eventually.

The problem is implementation - easiest way to say "re-spec however you want" is probably just say "as long as the character is level-maxed"...that way it doesn't have to check for # of covers, just level. And getting everything maxed gets back to that ISO issue...

atomzed

SnowcaTT wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

I really cannot see why you aren't allowed to respect your covers as you please, whats that got a 553 cage when you want a 355? Just swap the covers around and respect. This can work at every level as well - got a 310 captain marvel and want a 013...why just respect it then my good friend!

You don't get more covers, you just get to re-shuffle the ones you have got.

I could see this happening eventually.

The problem is implementation - easiest way to say "re-spec however you want" is probably just say "as long as the character is level-maxed"...that way it doesn't have to check for # of covers, just level. And getting everything maxed gets back to that ISO issue...

Well, this respec feature is up and coming.... If the rumors are correct...

TLCstormz

aesthetocyst wrote:

I believe the devs would LOVE to implement trading ... a marketplace ... hell maybe even an auction house ...

Not sure which game YOU are playing, but lolololol.

Dauthi

TLCstormz wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

I believe the devs would LOVE to implement trading ... a marketplace ... hell maybe even an auction house ...

Not sure which game YOU are playing, but lolololol.

Agreed. Their main concern seems to be to pump out 4*s as fast as possible.

Eichen

They should just kill 2 birds with one stone and change the new 4* DP Daily.

I know they keep saying that the 3* DP Daily node wasn't intended to boost the transition from 2* to 3* land but that is what it did for me. I used my maxed level 2*s to beat the node and gain a cover every day until my 3*s were covered enough I could use them instead. (actually I use OBW and two 3*s) (they say that mostly 3* teams go through it so it isn't really helping the transition but still call **** on that)

They should make the 4* node be advanced enough it takes a team of fully leveled 3*s to beat it. This would force guys to max their 3*s instead of sandbagging them all to a lower level and increase the ability of people to transition to 4* land.

Two birds one stone.

san

Can we give more than one thumbs up? This post deserves it. Spot on assessment, and exactly the reason I'm slowing down my play.

SnowcaTT

Speaking of not keeping resources up with release rates...

I do all right on ISO, and could max maybe one 4* a season. Except they release two, and I'm not getting the covers to max that first one....

And here comes a new feature! Which will cost ISO to use. And you have to sink all your ISO into 3*'s to get it to work there to -try- to transition to 4*'s, where you will...never be able to really champion. But that's ok, since you'll only see any specific 4* character rewarded four times a year anyway, so without extreme luck (if you are maxed in that 4*) or un-luck (if you aren't maxed in that terrible SL) you won't be throwing away to many 4* covers to champion anyway.

Nothing here to fix getting specific 4* covers. No "hey, change that IW to the new GR!"....instead it's "no, really...sink all your ISO into that IW to make the 14th cover...still not worth it!"

Tatercat

I'm not sure how the championing is going to effect, at least positively, the 4* transition. I'm underway on the 4* build, going slow but steady enough that I'm satisfied with my progression with that level roster. But if I was still a 3* level player, it seems like championing would just delay and delay me ever from going to the 4* level. You'd want to keep leveling the 3* MVP's like IF, Cyclops, Cage, Kamalla, etc to stay competitive but the people on the 4* level are going to be the doing the same thing, at a probably higher rate than you anyway. Seems like it's just a move to quiet the people complaining about getting 4* duplicates with every LT instead helping the middle ground of players move up. And a sign that I'm likely not playing much PVP in the future because who needs all the 266 lvl Iron Fists we're going to be seeing by spring?

Magic

I agree -progression will be slow. And the pains of having to sell covers (both 4 and 3*) would grow as well. Now I have used 3* covers as ISO and I was ok with it. With the new feature I would sell Loki, Doom and many, many more because I don't have iso to max them at the time.

If I choose to focus on maxing my 3* to be able to champion them all I won't open any tokens as I don't want to sell 4* covers that could be used as champions.... but wait - I will not have multiple maxed 4* for some months so I would be losing one of the key aspects of fun - opening tokens....

As it is announce now - I don't like the new feature (unless they will flood us with ISO or remove time counter on covers).

simonsez

Tatercat wrote:

But if I was still a 3* level player, it seems like championing would just delay and delay me ever from going to the 4* level.

For a player at that level, I don't think it's ISO that's holding them back. It's lack of covers. Championing won't help that much, but I don't see how it'd hurt.

The Viceroy Returns

I know for me it's currently covers that is stalling me in 4* transition land.
It seems like most of my LT token pulls are for the **** or mid-tier characters like Mr. Fan, Elektra, Starlord, etc.
What I need are Jean Grey, Hulkbuster, Iceman, Rulk, and Prof X covers, and I think I've pulled maybe 4 TOTAL of these characters combined from about 60+ LT tokens.
For example, I have more OML (3 1 2) covers than Jean Grey (1 1 2).
RNG definitely has its drawbacks when it's the primary content progression method, especially when it's haphazard like it is in this game (event reward structures seemingly always giving the "worst" cover as the lowest tier reward or the same order multiple times in a row, etc.).

Something needs to change with how 4 star covers are given out, and all this time spent on the Champion feature won't address that.
IMO the Champion feature will only make the 4 Star transition that much longer and harder.
Who cares if I get another LT token that will more than likely give me yet another Yellow Xforce or any Invisible Woman cover? It's not helping me upgrade the characters I want/need to upgrade.
There HAS to be a way to earn specific 4 star covers besides 1K progression in PVP. If the game truly is 50% PVE and 50% PVP, then the rewards need to reflect that.

GrumpySmurf1002

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

There HAS to be a way to earn specific 4 star covers besides 1K progression in PVP. If the game truly is 50% PVE and 50% PVP, then the rewards need to reflect that.

There is, you get 3 of them now for 1st in a PvE.

But with an 3/1/2 OML and a usable Iron Fist, the 4* transition should really be an afterthought anyway.

LegendReborn

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

There HAS to be a way to earn specific 4 star covers besides 1K progression in PVP. If the game truly is 50% PVE and 50% PVP, then the rewards need to reflect that.

There is, you get 3 of them now for 1st/2nd in a PvE.

But with an 3/1/2 OML and a usable Iron Fist, the 4* transition should really be an afterthought anyway.

You get three covers if you are First in PVE. Second to fifth gets you two covers. But I agree about anyone with a 3/1/2 OML shouldn't care massively about the 4* transition. A 3/1/2 OML is already beyond that.

Unknown

Funny to come back and revisit this thread weeks later, after "the big championing reveal..."

So in a nutshell, nothing has changed.

Post 5* scaling has all but guaranteed many will never see T10 in anything, and thus will never earn a 4* there, and many don't have the 4*s to compete in DDQ to get, well, 4*s. And Legendary Tokens? Well, yeah, plenty to read about how awesomely the latest gambling mechanic is working out for folks.

Still hoping this somehow does something to change something for someone, but aside from creating yet another significant obstacle to progression for all but the strongest, I'm not seeing much that supports such hope.

DBC

SnowcaTT

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

For example, I have more OML (3 1 2) covers than Jean Grey (1 1 2).

This needs to be in the 80+ legendaries, for us to all vent frustration about the stupidity of RNG.

Signed - someone with one cover of each of the three 5*'s, that tossed out a 14th JG cover last week.

But your point about being able to get 4*'s is a good one. It's really hard to find any specific place to get them...I just discount T10 placements as unlikely at best. The place to get these needs to be in progression somewhere.

The Viceroy Returns

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

There is, you get 3 of them now for 1st in a PvE.

To get t10 in a PVE, you have to basically play almost 5 hours a day clearing & grinding away nodes like crazy.
And to get 1st?? You make it sound like it's as easy as reaching 800 progression in a PVP.
Hitting 1st place in a PVE is for the 1% of the 1% of the 1%.
There is a current thread that gives step by step instructions for how to get t10 in a PVE, and Step 4 was estimated to take 3 hours alone, all the while trying to perfectly time playing every 8 hours optimally. That's hardly a "casual" method of acquiring a 4 star cover. That sounds like a 2nd career.

In many of the reaction threads to the new PVE reward structure, the majority of responses were that this doesn't help the players it needs to help. A true help would have been to add a single 4 star cover into the Progression rewards along with the Legendary Token in addition to what they added. The new structure helps some players for sure, but the time investment to hit t10 makes it impossible for many. They added more rewards into the most time consuming grindy thing to do in this game. Sure, reward those that can, but most simply can't.

I agree that even a 3 1 2 OML is noticeably powerful, but for me to reap the full rewards, I have to level him.
Those **** Carnage + red/green goon feeder nodes in Venom Bomb were the most aggravating fights this game has ever had (aside Galactus Run 1 and the one Gauntlet fight that had Tetris Ultron + Hood).
All I can say is I would not have done nearly as well in either Venom Bomb PVE if it wasn't for OML + a max 3 5 5 Iron Fist, even in the 2nd run where he wasn't boosted.
These would have easier I feel if it wasn't for scaling based on my roster. My top three characters are the three 5 stars; Levels 285, 255, 255.

I've already almost regretting leveling mine to 285, as I'm starting to notice my PVE scaling crack up. If I level him up to his current level cap (which I think is like 340-something currently), I'll get hit with massive scaling issues without the rest of my roster able to back it up. Trying to get the CP reward (which I never got; 20 ISO ftw!) in the 2nd to last sub of Venom Bomb Run 2 mine eventually hit Level 290+. NOT FUN by any stretch of the imagination. Guess that'll teach me to try and progress my characters huh?
I guess I am a "dirty soft capper" but that's to try and combat the poor design of PVE scaling. That, and I'm saving ISO for when I do finally get a top tier 4 star cover so I can level them instantly.

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

But with an 3/1/2 OML and a usable Iron Fist, the 4* transition should really be an afterthought anyway.

I want the top tier 4 stars so I can actually compete in PVP and hopefully hit 1k progression with some type of consistency. Cause right now I can't plow through the Fistbusters, Jeanbusters, Ice Rulks, and ThingPools fast enough. I know better than to assume a below 300 level 3 1 2 OML + a 3 star (even if it is Iron Fist) is enough to deter retaliations like max level 4 star teams will.
Oh, and cause I like collecting characters and /completing my roster. "Gotta catch 'em all" is a big design driver in this game, even if the devs both admit it and deny it at the same time.

Mercurywolf

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

I know for me it's currently covers that is stalling me in 4* transition land.
It seems like most of my LT token pulls are for the **** or mid-tier characters like Mr. Fan, Elektra, Starlord, etc.
What I need are Jean Grey, Hulkbuster, Iceman, Rulk, and Prof X covers, and I think I've pulled maybe 4 TOTAL of these characters combined from about 60+ LT tokens.
For example, I have more OML (3 1 2) covers than Jean Grey (1 1 2).
RNG definitely has its drawbacks when it's the primary content progression method, especially when it's haphazard like it is in this game (event reward structures seemingly always giving the "worst" cover as the lowest tier reward or the same order multiple times in a row, etc.).

Something needs to change with how 4 star covers are given out, and all this time spent on the Champion feature won't address that.
IMO the Champion feature will only make the 4 Star transition that much longer and harder.
Who cares if I get another LT token that will more than likely give me yet another Yellow Xforce or any Invisible Woman cover? It's not helping me upgrade the characters I want/need to upgrade.
There HAS to be a way to earn specific 4 star covers besides 1K progression in PVP. If the game truly is 50% PVE and 50% PVP, then the rewards need to reflect that.

As it was shown, certain 4 star covers are being given out for championing 3* characters. In the video, you can see a Falcap reward for Championing 3* Captain America at Lvl 265. Hypothetically, you could get at least some of the 4*s you need by championing the requisite 3*s. How many covers you'll get is up for speculation, but my theory is that you will get 1 of each color if you fully champion the correct 3*, but we'll have to wait and see.