Why the 4* "Transition" is impossible

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  • Der_Lex
    Der_Lex Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    I have started keeping track of opening legendary tokens, because it felt my odds were ridiculous. They are apparently, I have 27/54 covers (not counting 5*s!) which is a 50% chance to get something I need. Here is what I have gotten from 10 tokens since I posted here last:

    2 x Nick Fury (blue)
    2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
    1 x Invisible Woman (blue)
    1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
    1 x Invisible Woman (green)
    1 x X-Force (green)
    1 x Kingpin (black)
    1 x Thing (green)

    I didn't need any of these. I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.

    That's the big downside of random pulls, unfortunately. In contrast, I think I have slightly more 4* covers rostered than you do, and from the 10 legendaries I opened today, I pulled 7 useful 4* covers and a Silver Surfer. Basically, I'm progressing into 4* land a bit faster than you not because I'm a better player, but because of blind luck, and that just shouldn't happen. That's the huge flaw of the main method of 4* progression being a random token, and CP have turned out to be a big dud in that department as well, since they can't be used to directly gain specific 4* cover, plus they're being doled out in a really miserly manner. At best you'll end up with an additional Legendary token every two weeks.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    I have started keeping track of opening legendary tokens, because it felt my odds were ridiculous. They are apparently, I have 27/54 covers (not counting 5*s!) which is a 50% chance to get something I need. Here is what I have gotten from 10 tokens since I posted here last:

    2 x Nick Fury (blue)
    2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
    1 x Invisible Woman (blue)
    1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
    1 x Invisible Woman (green)
    1 x X-Force (green)
    1 x Kingpin (black)
    1 x Thing (green)

    I didn't need any of these. I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.

    That's a huge bummer. To bad each of these couldn't be redeemed for 5 CP's - tossing out TEN 4*'s makes you feel pretty bad, but at least getting two more out of them might make it feel not quite as bad.
  • CaptainFreaky
    CaptainFreaky Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Dauthi wrote:
    I have started keeping track of opening legendary tokens, because it felt my odds were ridiculous. They are apparently, I have 27/54 covers (not counting 5*s!) which is a 50% chance to get something I need. Here is what I have gotten from 10 tokens since I posted here last:

    2 x Nick Fury (blue)
    2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
    1 x Invisible Woman (blue)
    1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
    1 x Invisible Woman (green)
    1 x X-Force (green)
    1 x Kingpin (black)
    1 x Thing (green)

    I didn't need any of these. I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.

    That's a huge bummer. To bad each of these couldn't be redeemed for 5 CP's - tossing out TEN 4*'s makes you feel pretty bad, but at least getting two more out of them might make it feel not quite as bad.

    Now THAT is a move I could get behind. Giving us a choice between ISO or CP for unwanted covers would be a MAJOR plus I think.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's simple really, there aren't enough opportunities to win specific covers. Your options are
    T2 Story mode
    T1 Versus
    1k Versus

    After that it's random or purcha$e
  • Ludaa
    Ludaa Posts: 542
    fmftint wrote:
    It's simple really, there aren't enough opportunities to win specific covers. Your options are
    T2 Story mode
    T1 Versus
    1k Versus

    After that it's random or purcha$e

    That's exactly it. I'll admit I got excited over CoPo the first day, then realized it's just another trick. They're getting better at dangling a carrot which you'll never actually get. It has to be near impossible to cover a 4* through random luck with tokens now. The greatest trick the publisher ever played, was convincing us we could progress.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    About a week before DDQ started, I suddenly found myself with a growing surplus of ISO and found it odd that I hadn't got a decent cover in while. Turns out, I had covered & leveled the entire 2* field without even realizing it. At that point I had a handful of unusable 3* & 4* characters, but 2* land was where I was at.

    Now, I'm just about in the same place with 3* land - just finishing up the last covers for the 3* tier, and seriously starting to branch out into the 4* tier. I fully expect in the same amount of time (from start of DDQ to now) I'll be in pretty much the same place in the 4* tier. I'm not a whale, so I accept it's going to take a long while to get there and focus on just enjoy playing.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    garbageman72 wrote:
    About a week before DDQ started, I suddenly found myself with a growing surplus of ISO and found it odd that I hadn't got a decent cover in while. Turns out, I had covered & leveled the entire 2* field without even realizing it. At that point I had a handful of unusable 3* & 4* characters, but 2* land was where I was at.

    Now, I'm just about in the same place with 3* land - just finishing up the last covers for the 3* tier, and seriously starting to branch out into the 4* tier. I fully expect in the same amount of time (from start of DDQ to now) I'll be in pretty much the same place in the 4* tier. I'm not a whale, so I accept it's going to take a long while to get there and focus on just enjoy playing.

    Similar sentiments here. A lot of the fun in mpq is in the journey for me - it's only frustrating when we run into a road block and a steep cliff with no climbing tools. icon_e_smile.gif
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Dauthi wrote:
    Thing (0/2/5) (please stop giving me green)

    The biggest slap in the face is when you get the one color you don't need in the 4*. I cannot stop getting green Thing for some reason like I mentioned in this post earlier in the thread icon_evil.gif

    I just opened another legendary to get a black X-Force. I am seriously spinning my wheels here. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but I strongly believe that there are stronger chances of pulling older covers than newer.

    I am legitimately starting to hate this game.
  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    I cannot stop getting green Thing for some reason like I mentioned in this post earlier in the thread icon_evil.gif

    You really ought to see a doctor about that.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    Dauthi wrote:
    Thing (0/2/5) (please stop giving me green)

    The biggest slap in the face is when you get the one color you don't need in the 4*. I cannot stop getting green Thing for some reason like I mentioned in this post earlier in the thread icon_evil.gif

    I just opened another legendary to get a black X-Force. I am seriously spinning my wheels here. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but I strongly believe that there are stronger chances of pulling older covers than newer.

    I am legitimately starting to hate this game.

    Sorry to spoil the illusion but since getting legendaries I've had a very even spread amongst mine, and never had even one XFW (though I've just guaranteed that's all I get now.) Though I have yet to get all 3 colours for one character though, 3 have 2 and the rest all have one.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    fmftint wrote:
    It's simple really, there aren't enough opportunities to win specific covers. Your options are
    T2 Story mode
    T1 Versus
    1k Versus

    After that it's random or purcha$e

    This, so much this.

    And with the spread out of rewards (as characters are released, any specific rewards gets farther and farther from it's last reward time) - it's time for a 4* PVP that gives out the 4* as alliance rewards.

    I look at any new character and just sigh. I'm at 2/2/2 for Cyc, since you could be 1/1/1 after introduction in Galactus [why aren't all intros like that?] and you'd have another one from PVP 1K reward. Not bad! But I look at 2/2/2 and think - maybe in eighteen months he'll be covered? But by that point he'll also be completely irrelevant, in a 5* world.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Finally broke down and risked certain doom opening my LT, and got a icon_thing.pngredflag.png .

    I needed it, but it was probably the most anticlimactic moment I've experienced in MPQ to date.

    I thought about what the single cover represented, fifteen 4*s with about twenty covers between them. Then I thought about how long it was going to take with my growing crew of 3*s facing fully leveled 4*s and now even 5*s in PvP (I hope no one is straining themselves taking out teams like mine, 150 levels below them. icon_rolleyes.gif ). Then I thought about where I'll actually be when I finally get the cards and ISO to fully level my 3*s...

    And then I thought about how long it will be before there are forty 4*s and twenty 5*s... and then 6*s.

    Yeah, anticlimactic about sums it up.

    DBC
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.

    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards
    Malcrof wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.

    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.

    You are the 1%
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Punisher5784 wrote:
    Malcrof wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.

    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.

    You are the 1%

    Not even close, i just learned how to pvp is all. Many of my alliancemates are in the same boat, plenty of covers, not enough iso.. and right now, everyone is hoarding tokens.. so the iso shortage will get worse once it's time to pop them.
  • Jam_Adams
    Jam_Adams Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    how did you learn to PVP
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Malcrof wrote:
    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.
    I can see your point mal, and I'm similar but just a little farther behind you, but to "finish" the transition, you need ways to spec them correctly and fill holes effectively. I've hit 13 on several 4* characters over the last 1-2 months but few are spec'ed like I want. to finish the transition (filling out that last handful of covers) is very hard with only LTs and PVP 1K. the PVE placement restructure is a step in the right direction, but needs to be expanded to pvp as well and I would have much preferred adding 1 of the placement covers to progression, even if it was a little beyond the LT.

    LTs really boosted my 4* transition with random covers across the board. CPs helped some, especially after I joined a top alliance, but finishing things out will still be an issue. I have about 200 4* covers in total and still have:
    1 xf yellow
    1 px purple
    0 carnage black
    1 xpool black
    1 ice green

    rng will naturally create those holes. those need to be filled some how (other than hp). I've been very lucky with some of my holes being on abilities that will end up at 3 covers anyway when spec'ed how I want, but more set covers would be very helpful. I'm also aware that LTs are the only way to 5*s, which I need too but to me there needs to be more balance. RNG weighs way too heavily in the 4* transition and is especially frustrating after the way they handled the 3* transition with ddq on top of pve and pvp - loads of set covers everywhere.
  • PeterGibbons316
    PeterGibbons316 Posts: 1,063
    Malcrof wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.

    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.
    Same for me. I'm hitting 1300 in every PvP event, and while the 5*s aren't flowing like I would like, I have been getting mostly usable 4* covers. It's starting to slow though as I now have thirty seven 4* covers that I would have to sell if I pulled them. I need about 500k MORE ISO than I have right now to max the two 4*s that I want to take to 270.

    I'm worried about championing. If it requires max level characters it's not going to help me at all. I've got fourteen 4* covers that I can't use that expire in 2 weeks - all for characters that aren't level 270. So hopefully that feature or its details come soon!
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2015
    Malcrof wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Went back to look at this - I remember posting this when there was an "upcoming feature" that we hoped would alleviate this problem. I was thinking that was Legendary Tokens - nope, those were around when I posted. It was CP....has the slow dribble of CP into RNG LT's solved -your- 4* transition problem? No? (Oh wait...are you a whale and the CP -has- helped???)

    As fmftint posted above - there are very few ways to get specific 4* covers. One of the few is to buy them...but as I posted in the OP, the release rate is out-pacing the resource rate: there is very little chance you are saving HP to buy covers when you have to spend 2,000HP (or more!) on roster slots each month.

    This will be my remembrance of the game in 2015 - the players falling further and further behind, without resources being added to help them catch up with covers, with ISO, with HP. To many characters released to quickly, with no real transition solutions into 4* land.

    100% the opposite, the 4* transition is moving a little too fast for me to keep up, i have too many covers and need millions of iso to make use of them. In the last 2 months, i went from 1 covered 4* to 7 or 8 complete, or close to it. The pace is nice.

    I'll just throw out one example (mine) of # of covers of
    recent 4*'s:Venom (1)/Miles (1)/GR (1)/Cho (2)/X -23 (3)/Ice (3)/Sam (4).
    -giant coverage gap-
    Middle 4*'s: MrF (7)/Rhulk (7)/DPXF (7)/Thing (8)/Cyc (8)/Ant (10)/Carnage (12)/JG (13).
    [Note that Rhulk and Carnage had easier releases (Galactus) to get covered faster]
    -mostly large coverage gap-
    Older 4*'s: All at thirteen covers (XF/IW/Fury/GT/HB/SL/DD/PX/KP/Elektra)

    Part of the problem is getting -specific- 4* covers. It is very rare to be able to get any specific one - you'll continue to over-cover your old ones and toss them out. Theoretical new plans don't have you turning yet another IW cover into a newer Venom cover, for example. That is why you can't 4* transition, and many through this thread left a similar experience: all old covered, and the new ones are to few and far between.

    But to your complaint Malcrof - in the OP I totally agree, and have argued for over a year that each time a character is added to the game, HP and ISO should -both- be scaled up to allow folks who are just now joining some chance to perhaps not catch up, but at least to keep even! In that list above, there are eleven 13 covered characters. FOUR of them are at 270, and only two more have even made it to 200 (along with eighteen 3*'s that never have maxed out).

    ISO drag is certainly a concern, but I think this is a good "plan" for the game to keep players chasing something - always let them try to level the characters, never to have them all maxed unless they are an extreme whale. But let the players at least -choose- which characters to level! Keep the ISO rare, and make the covers more available!

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