Why the 4* "Transition" is impossible

simonsez

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

I do actually agree with this. I finished the SG PvP in 2nd and got 3 vision covers, plus a 4th from my alliance. That's 2k ISO. Nobody that finishes top5 needs that 3rd Vision cover, and it's really not a good reward for the 750 hp I spent on shields to finish there.

... and this is the main reason why you're going to see that new game currency tied to PvP rank. The devs do realize that there's little incentive to rank well in PvP anymore, so they need to create a new reason to get us to start overspending on shields again.

OneLastGambit

simonsez wrote:

To play devil's advocate, if it's impossible, how do so many F2P players have a good 4* roster?

I wouldn't say I have a good 4* roster but the ones I have acquired (Star-Lord, Kingpin, Thing, Nick Fury, DPXF, IMHB - Also tossed Dino and IW) have been mostly through PVE and some lucky token pulls (2 from standard tokens, 1 from heroic and 1 event).

The good thing about being F2P player is that you develop a lot of patience (through being a scrooge) so while you don't have a well covered 4* Roster (DPXF is my best with 3) you're also not that bothered about waiting until they are well covered.

dr tinykittylove

I'm sympathetic to the OP. Right now, yes, it feels like we're trying to run uphill while a landslide is rolling underfoot. It's overwhelming - you grind a release pve, get 3+1 covers (with alliance), grab the 1k progression in pvp next, then... profit?

But anniversary shenanigans aside, the general trend is positive and I'm inclined to wait and trust that they're working to ease the transition like they did for 2*s (pvp drops) and 3*s (ddq).

We've seen them bring down pvp progressions. They've added an additional 4* progression for high-end pvp. There's a 4* progression in pve. They've increased token odds multiple times. There's a 4* ddq.

I could wish some of these were less luck-dependent, but it's so many different improvements stacking together I can't seriously complain.

Plus, this is not a race to the finish line unless you want it to be. You can drop cash to take a shortcut. I'm content to fool around on the beach and pick up shiny covers as I find them.

cyineedsn

aesthetocyst wrote:

But even that's kinda silly. This is a freemium game. You aren't supposed to catch up. New toys are kept at a premium to drive sales. Once they're no longer hot, and the portion of the customer base that is willing to pay full price have been exhausted, the acquisition costs will be slashed.

I agree with that. The slow(er) rate of transition to 4*s seems to be pretty intentional, and that's probably a good thing from their perspective as far as longevity of the game. I think, what it unintentionally exposes is just how annoying/boring their cover system is for leveling characters up. By that I mean, how useless almost all characters are useless unless they are well covered, or have 5+ in some specific color, etc, despite a few character outliers that are exceptions.

If the 4*s were actually usable with 3-6 covers, and the final covers were just for min-maxing, then even if it took a year to max a specific character out at least it would be bearable. Maybe you could actually, you know, have FUN using a character. Crazy idea right! Instead, with the way things work I'm looking at my 0/2/0 cyclops and thinking well, maybe if I get lucky with token pulls sometime in June 2016 I'll get to actually use you outside of essential nodes. But if I'm unlucky, I'll just end up forgetting about him until December 2016. Woo. So fun!

Chirus

Added my thumbs up to this post, even though a dev will never pay attention to this, and will likely increase roster costs just to spite us. Sometimes I feel like this game is us players vs them devs, not the devs working together with the players to produce a quality product.

Unknown

Pongie wrote:

ngoni wrote:

And now with the "Command Points" leak there's rumors that we won't be able to buy ANY covers for HP anymore. Better hope these "Command Points" are the best things since sliced bread!

Care to share more info about this leak?

And now Im pretty sure that's why the healthpacks were moved. To make room for a third type of currency.

SnowcaTT

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

How is it 3 [characters] per season? Seasons, including the 2 offseason events, are 28 day cycles. With an every other week release, that's 2 spots, not 3.

-for roster slots spots, I'm sort of considering that they add a 5* once a month (which is almost a season). You don't "get" one of those, but you'll probably earn it eventually - and have to pay the roster cost for it.

simonsez wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

To play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate: I'm one of those F2P players with a good 4* roster, but I do realize I've been able to build that mostly because the 4* character pool was much smaller

Fair point, but even the more recent characters are well-represented. It seems like the entire world has jeanbuster, and there were plenty of 4s already by the time they came out. There's also no shortage of Things and XDPs out there. The releases of Mr F and Falcap is where you see a dropoff, but that has more to do with their perceived worth. And my best guess is that within 4-5 weeks (or even sooner), we're going to see way more Cykes than we want to.

I also see lots of JG. This thread started out of a JG complaint - how many I see, and how long it will be to get a JG of my own, since there are so many characters being released.

How did so many get JG? Some that have it pushed to 1300/legendary tokens very often. Some went hard for the #1's. Some I'm sure got very lucky pulls. But there are way, WAY more max JG's out there then just those numbers - so everyone can "guess" how they were acquired. I see more JG (by a factor of at least two) than any other 4* that was released since HB.

GrumpySmurf1002

SnowcaTT wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

How is it 3 [characters] per season? Seasons, including the 2 offseason events, are 28 day cycles. With an every other week release, that's 2 spots, not 3.

-for roster slots spots, I'm sort of considering that they add a 5* once a month (which is almost a season). You don't "get" one of those, but you'll probably earn it eventually - and have to pay the roster cost for it.

That makes sense, but 1 per month is not likely to be a long term trend as current, so I think it skews the numbers.

I mean if you're factoring in token luck, then the Vault over that span (28 days) produces about 750HP. Whether or not your luck achieves it, that's about the ROI. In a given span, the daily rewards are roughly 300HP + luck also. So if you hit the 50hp say once per 28 days from the random dailies, you're already at 1100HP. That easily offsets a 500HP slot, and we haven't even talked about PvP/PvE. (but I can tell you personally PvP is cost negative, but PvE offsets it and then some, even playing casually)

Not that I disagree with slots being crazy, but 500hp seems way too low when considering it's their money maker. With that model I for sure would be done spending money, and the hardcore above me would be swimming in HP as well.

Chirus

So I see a mod saw this thread and moved it to a topic where basically no one visits. Also without any official mod statement either. Smooth.

Ram51

Chirus wrote:

So I see a mod saw this thread and moved it to a topic where basically no one visits. Also without any official mod statement either. Smooth.

Yeah i have to wonder why this was moved to the Roster and Level Help sub-forum? Snowcatt was not looking for help in his post, OP was not a guide or FAQ. Honestly, mods are going too far with burying this topic in an unrelated forum.

Unknown

Was really hard to find this thread again, all this moving of posts to different sub forums is making me wonder if some are being moved intentionally for the purpose of silencing valid complains about the biggest issues with the game. Paranoid much?

TxMoose

I kind of agree - no tip, no guide, no request for roster or leveling help. not sure why...

edit: mods generally have a thankless job and we have a good group that cares about the game and the community. thanks for what you do. not sure why some things happen though.

SnowcaTT

Ram51 wrote:

Chirus wrote:

So I see a mod saw this thread and moved it to a topic where basically no one visits. Also without any official mod statement either. Smooth.

Yeah i have to wonder why this was moved to the Roster and Level Help sub-forum? Snowcatt was not looking for help in his post, OP was not a guide or FAQ. Honestly, mods are going too far with burying this topic in an unrelated forum.

I intentionally wrote this in such a way that it -wouldn't- be moved: a commentary on game-state, with hope that the community would chime in. I've enjoyed reading the responses that both agree and disagree.

Apparently the agreement of 135 others was to threatening!

My only concern was actually it might get merged with the "how many are stuck in 3*" - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34311 - isn't this basically the same thing?

[Sorry if that gets that topic moved!]

Unknown

two days ago im looking for this post in general discussion, so it was moved, huh?

i wish red-man will take a look at SnowcaTT post, and act accordingly.

whoami24601

Luckily I left the page open at work or I'd've never found the thread again...

madok

Oooh! I got to participate in the fun new gameplay that has been hinted at recently.

Sadly it is "Find the moved thread!" which isn't what I call fun. Which I guess lines up with their direction as of late.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

"I can't help you with you roster but I can tell you why it's stuck and enumerate the ways" is neither roster help nor advice; it's commentary and opinion regarding the game economy. Is there a subforum for that?

Unfortunately, that'd be "feedback". This thread should have wheels...

TxMoose

Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Back here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've got him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

DaveR4470

TxMoose wrote:

Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Back here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've got him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

So.... the new game mode is "Gabe Kaplan"???

;0

Serious point: I think a lot of the problems could be mitigated by making event tokens 20% 4*/80% 3*.

GrumpySmurf1002

DaveR4470 wrote:

Serious point: I think a lot of the problems could be mitigated by making event tokens 20% 4*/80% 3*.

Serious counter, events are dominated by players that desperately need 2* covers.