Am I the Only One Tired of the Complaining?

Tarheelmax

So, I understand that the 4* DDQ is hard, I get that the Devs could have been more clear about how difficult it would be upfront. But come on people, this is EXTRA content that the game did not have before. Two week ago, do you remember how you could move forward in the 4* transition?

It was:
-Top 2 in PVE
-1000 prize in pvp
-1300 prize in pvp
-First overall in pvp
-2000 in Sim
-Top 100 alliance season reward
-Getting a very lucky token pull.

Now they have ADDED:
-PVE legendary progression (and I halfheartedly grinded to get it and got it more than a day early)
- 4* DDQ every five days (Yes, it's actually a challenge. God forbid that there be an actual challenge in the game and not another freebie.)
-10,000 season progression reward for a legendary token.

Why does everyone want things handed to them? Why not enjoy that the game is actually hard and worth some time put into it? I would be bored pretty quickly if everyone and their mother had maxed 4*s after spending a days playing.

TL;DR: Enjoy the fact that this game isn't one that burns out quickly, you can enjoy it for a long time. And once you get those 4*s, take enjoyment in the fact that you know you EARNED them.

LXSandman

Tarheelmax wrote:

So, I understand that the 4* DDQ is hard, I get that the Devs could have been more clear about how difficult it would be upfront. But come on people, this is EXTRA content that the game did not have before. Two week ago, do you remember how you could move forward in the 4* transition?

It was:
-Top 2 in PVE
-1000 prize in pvp
-1300 prize in pvp
-First overall in pvp
-2000 in Sim
-Top 100 alliance season reward
-Getting a very lucky token pull.

Now they have ADDED:
-PVE legendary progression (and I halfheartedly grinded to get it and got it more than a day early)
- 4* DDQ every five days (Yes, it's actually a challenge. God forbid that there be an actual challenge in the game and not another freebie.)
-10,000 season progression reward for a legendary token.

Why does everyone want things handed to them? Why not enjoy that the game is actually hard and worth some time put into it? I would be bored pretty quickly if everyone and their mother had maxed 4*s after spending a days playing.

TL;DR: Enjoy the fact that this game isn't one that burns out quickly, you can enjoy it for a long time. And once you get those 4*s, take enjoyment in the fact that you know you EARNED them.

The forum rage was purely a byproduct of the devs doing a poor job of managing player expectations. People thought that the 4* DDQ would be a way to transition to 4*, but it's really a way to transition to 5*. That's fine, it just needed to be communicated better.

The other issue was their handling of the rage on the forums that caused even more rage - aka changing, and merging topics.

I think all of the additions are actually great... It's just their handling of them that was sub par.

DaveR4470

They also took away the 4*s from the standard tokens. The odds were slim, but seeing as how one easily gets 100 standard tokens a week (or thereabouts), it added up statistically to a couple of 4* covers a month.

simonsez

LXSandman wrote:

The other issue was their handling of the rage on the forums that caused even more rage - aka changing, and merging topics.

I'm pretty sure you were the only one raging over that...

simonsez

DaveR4470 wrote:

They also took away the 4*s from the standard tokens. The odds were slim, but seeing as how one easily gets 100 standard tokens a week (or thereabouts), it added up statistically to a couple of 4* covers a month.

I'm on day 569 and never got a 4* from a standard.

cosm0naut

I'm tired of both. People complaining and people complaining about the people who complain.

lukewin

DaveR4470 wrote:

They also took away the 4*s from the standard tokens. The odds were slim, but seeing as how one easily gets 100 standard tokens a week (or thereabouts), it added up statistically to a couple of 4* covers a month.

They actually didn't take away 4*s from the standard tokens.

Link goes to post

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

IceIX wrote:

We didn't change any odds, just presentation. It doesn't state *, **, ***, **** for the inevitable occasion that a pull does *not* contain a 4*. Leading players on that the Standard tokens *may* doesn't really help anyone.

So, just to confirm, it's still possible, just highly unlikely?

Correct. The odds of it happening are so low though, that the devs didn't want to get your hopes up by putting it on the description.

TxMoose

DaveR4470 wrote:

They also took away the 4*s from the standard tokens. The odds were slim, but seeing as how one easily gets 100 standard tokens a week (or thereabouts), it added up statistically to a couple of 4* covers a month.

actually they only changed the labeling. they said the actual odds have not changed but including them in the label was a bit misleading since the actual pull rate % was so low - a fraction of a percent. still can draw 4* at the same rate you always have - basically almost never. nothing changed except the label.

cletus1985

DaveR4470 wrote:

They also took away the 4*s from the standard tokens. The odds were slim, but seeing as how one easily gets 100 standard tokens a week (or thereabouts), it added up statistically to a couple of 4* covers a month.

That's not true either, they just don't say chance of 4* anymore because the odds are so slim. IceIX confirmed they're still in there at the same rate. That rate of course is almost non-existent, I've pulled one 4* from a standard in the year I've been playing.

edit: two people beat me to it while I was typing.

GrumpySmurf1002

LXSandman wrote:

The forum rage was purely a byproduct of the devs doing a poor job of managing player expectations. People thought that the 4* DDQ would be a way to transition to 4*, but it's really a way to transition to 5*. That's fine, it just needed to be communicated better.

Players did a poor job managing player expectations too. Many have reacted as if this was going to be the solution to all problems.

If you're not hitting 1000 in PvP, you're not in or ready for the 4* transition, so DDQ was never going to be a solution.

The situation today is only different from the situation 6 days ago in that there is one or two more cover(s) available through PvE, and one more available from DDQ every 5 days. You'll also have a token upgrade coming which will increase output as well.

One can argue whether that's enough, but the idea that DDQ being (very) difficult undermines the 4* transition completely is ridiculous.

DaveR4470

I stand corrected! (And am happy to hear that!)

LegendReborn

Stop blaming expectations on the player base when we're given pretty much scraps.

How any of us were supposed to parse that the 4* ddq was for people with half covered 4* rather than barely covered when you have an admin claiming to beat many with a roster with hardly any covered 4*s is beyond me.

All ice had to say that the ddq is impossible or next to impossible for single and low covered 4*s. Then there's the possibility that it was changed a decent amount before launch and we were flat out being fed outdated and wrong info. For example, we know that we originally would have been allowed team ups and rather than disabling 3dp, we just got no team ups.

SnowcaTT wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

Doesn't mean it's anywhere close to what ice said here in the forum for the entire player base.
 

IceIX wrote:

Philly79 wrote:

What levels can we expect for the 4* in ddq?

Still being tweaked, but expect "Level ouch".  The idea is that you're going to need a real live 4* character in there, and a 1/0/0 70 is going to have an extremely difficult time of it.

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

So the players who are transitioning 3*->4* don't have much shot at the rotation for legendary tokens?

Depends on the 4*.  I've beaten many of the nodes with their current balancing with a copy of my current roster from Live.  And as anyone who has seen my roster knows, I'm not live ng la vida 4* yet.

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Are we talking half way covered or just 4* with 1-3 covers because that's a massive difference.

Here's my current roster, for reference:
http://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/IceIX/

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32849&start=40#p411275

IceIX wrote:

...there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*.  It's by no means easy.  I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there.  I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do.  The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

Heartburn

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

LXSandman wrote:

The forum rage was purely a byproduct of the devs doing a poor job of managing player expectations. People thought that the 4* DDQ would be a way to transition to 4*, but it's really a way to transition to 5*. That's fine, it just needed to be communicated better.

Players did a poor job managing player expectations too. Many have reacted as if this was going to be the solution to all problems.

If you're not hitting 1000 in PvP, you're not in or ready for the 4* transition, so DDQ was never going to be a solution.

The situation today is only different from the situation 6 days ago in that there is one or two more cover(s) available through PvE, and one more available from DDQ every 5 days. You'll also have a token upgrade coming which will increase output as well.

One can argue whether that's enough, but the idea that DDQ being (very) difficult undermines the 4* transition completely is ridiculous.

for some of us it was a last life line before quitting, just mad they threw the line to someone else as it seems like a way to transition from 4-5 instead of 3-4.

Unknown

I'm just glad to see all the people who put time and money into max out XFW, only to see him nerfed to oblivion a few months ago, finally see a reward from not selling him off.

Tarheelmax

LegendReborn wrote:

Stop blaming expectations on the player base when we're given pretty much scraps.

How any of us were supposed to parse that the 4* ddq was for people with half covered 4* rather than barely covered when you have an admin claiming to beat many with a roster with hardly any covered 4*s us beyond me.

All ice had to say that the ddq is impossible or next to impossible for single and low covered 4*s. Then there's the possibility that it was changed a decent amount before launch and we were flat out being fed outdated and wrong info.

And we've seen exactly *one* 4 DDQ node. Cyc is a very strong character. Some of the others may be easier. IceIX didn't say he beat Cyc with Wolvie, he said he has beaten many of the nodes. I'll hold judgement until I see the rest. with a lucky board, a 1/0/0 IW or a 0/1/0 PX can literally beat any thing out there. So i'm sure those are two of the nodes he beat with his roster. I would also venture a guess that if Thoress is facing someone like Loki, the fight will be a bit easier. Same with Kingpin potentially facing DD.

scottee

LegendReborn wrote:

Stop blaming expectations on the player base when we're given pretty much scraps.

How any of us were supposed to parse that the 4* ddq was for people with half covered 4* rather than barely covered when you have an admin claiming to beat many with a roster with hardly any covered 4*s is beyond me.

All ice had to say that the ddq is impossible or next to impossible for single and low covered 4*s. Then there's the possibility that it was changed a decent amount before launch and we were flat out being fed outdated and wrong info. For example, we know that we originally would have been allowed team ups and rather than disabling 3dp, we just got no team ups.

He said he did it with his roster. Other people with similar rosters did it too. So...

LegendReborn

He specifically said many. Beating a handful of them isn't man when there are currently 16 (not including dino) 4*s. 4 or 5 isn't many when we have two new 4*s a month on top of the current amount.

Regardless of what his intentions are, the blame shouldn't be on the community for the lack of clarification. When you are designing a system, if your base is having a lot of trouble understanding it, it's ultimately the creator's fault. You can't expect people to read between his lines and then complain when they didn't read between them properly when it's vague.

scottee

LegendReborn wrote:

He specifically said many. Beating a handful of them isn't man when there are currently 16 (not including dino) 4*s. 4 or 5 isn't many when we have two new 4*s a month on top of the current amount.

Regardless of what his intentions are, the blame shouldn't be on the community for the lack of clarification. When you are designing a system, if your base is having a lot of trouble understanding it, it's ultimately the creator's fault. You can't expect people to read between his lines and then complain when they didn't read between them properly when it's vague.

He said it was "ouch" hard. He said it was very difficult. People asked if they could do it with low level characters, and he said it'd hard but he's beaten many of them with his live roster.

We've seen one node. Lots of people with 4-6 covers on XFW have beaten 100% of the nodes. I don't see how any of this requires reading between the lines.

If it takes 20 tries to beat the node once, that's still faaaar easier than any other way to earn a 4* in the game.

Ice didn't sit down to write instructions on the new mode. He answered community questions, and he answered them truthfully. It was intended as response to the stated questions. Is that the best way to communicate? Maybe not. But it's what happened. It seems like most in the community can't do anything in this game unless someone writes a guide for them.

LXSandman

simonsez wrote:

LXSandman wrote:

The other issue was their handling of the rage on the forums that caused even more rage - aka changing, and merging topics.

I'm pretty sure you were the only one raging over that...

Hahhahha... Probably true.

TxMoose

no you're not the only one. this is the worst side of the forum. I almost posted this in another thread but it would have looked like it was targeted at an individual so i'll post it here.

its no wonder that they didn't communicate much of anything for so long. some people only hear what they want to hear and are all about instant gratification. they can take their woe is me and their pity party and they can shove it. the communication from the reds in the sneak peek thread and even responding to individual comments is the best thing that they've done in a looong time and this is what they get for it. just tired of the entitlement attitude so prevalent. I better stop or i'll go on for a while.

thank you IceIX for communicating with us and please don't let this affect communications going forward. we appreciate what you do for us.

Crowl

Tarheelmax wrote:

Why does everyone want things handed to them? Why not enjoy that the game is actually hard and worth some time put into it? I would be bored pretty quickly if everyone and their mother had maxed 4*s after spending a days playing.

TL;DR: Enjoy the fact that this game isn't one that burns out quickly, you can enjoy it for a long time. And once you get those 4*s, take enjoyment in the fact that you know you EARNED them.

People are not expecting things to be handed to them, but in the case of this 4* DDQ they were expecting it to fit along similar lines to the other ones i.e. you would need a quality 3* team in order to get a 4* rather than it deciding to skip that stage and be more of a 4* to 5* transition tool.

The problem with the idea of progress being slow means you don't get burned out is that the barrier to entry increases as time goes by and thus people are more likely to become frustrated and leave rather than anything else, it is not like they separate 2-3* from 4* when it comes to pvp so that route to progress becomes steadily less accessible.