Colognoisseur's Ranking of 4* Updated: 10/19

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  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,573 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe I didn't surround him with the right partners.

    One of my alliance mates swears by Carnage-Blade-DocOck, and has been running Carnage-Spidey-Venom with success in this event.
    The only time that combination could be used in PVP. I actually wish I had a venom to try that combo out.

    As far as the list goes I actually like IW more the the OP. In PVE her blue tiles have saved me a bunch from CD and annoying bullseye protect tiles and her green does Surgical Strike type damage. Yes it is conditional on blue, but it deals really good damage. I would not rank her that much higher but defiantly above Star Lord, Electra, and possibly Carnage. My issue with Carnage is his red does too much team damage and not enough damage to the enemy. Sentry does 5K AOE damage the the opponent for 11 red and much less team damage.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 764 Critical Contributor
    Answering some questions posed.

    Kingpin is the 4* version of lazy Thor. All his powers feed into the other.

    Thing is that high because it is the only green nuke in 4* land. That active leads to cascades and can clear away annoying clusters while changing the board. Many keep bringing up Loki but I just don't see him in the higher levels of PvP. In PvE I might hesitate. Even so I ran thing kp in Loki PvP with no problem and finished with 1500+.

    Carnage just hasn't had the sustainability to make me push him higher. There are some good comps but nothing great. If I'm going to be chewing through health packs I want something better. I feel this is a character that will get a partner that is going to make him great but I don't think it's there yet.

    Ant-Man is also close to being great but not quite.

    Goddess is still very good and she could be interchanged with Thing depending on who you use her with.

    Again these are just my experiences others might find better combos and different uses. The purpose of this was just to share with the forum community something I have been sharing privately over the last few weeks. Whether you think what I say has merit is entirely up to you.
  • TLCstormzTLCstormz Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,668
    PvP IS NOT the be all end all. lol
  • morph3usmorph3us Age Unconfirmed Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2015
    Thing is that high because it is the only green nuke in 4* land. That active leads to cascades and can clear away annoying clusters while changing the board. Many keep bringing up Loki but I just don't see him in the higher levels of PvP. In PvE I might hesitate. Even so I ran thing kp in Loki PvP with no problem and finished with 1500+.

    I might chime in and elaborate a bit more about Thing. I'd agree with Colog's rating him highly. I have him at 5/3/5, and ran him constantly in the last week of the season, boosted to level 295, so he wasn't particularly overscaled.

    People tend to downrate him because of his liabilities, which are as follows: he doesn't self accelerate (unlike IMHB, 4* Thor, KP, or even PX to an extent); also, his signature moves produce protect tiles which can be used against him. Also, his damage per AP isn't as high as some of the other 4* nukes.

    Now, his key move is his passive, Rock Solid. I suspect people sometimes get a bit caught up by the protect tiles it generates, but in my opinion, that's not the important thing. The most important thing about Rock Solid is that it allows two things: firstly, it allows you to play characters in PvP whom you wouldn't otherwise be able to play, without painting a target on your back, such as Hood; secondly, it gives your primary nuker a higher probability of getting his or her ability off. He essentially strengthens your other team members by forcing your opponent to deal with him first. That's a pretty significant tactical advantage. Sure, you can play around him by bringing Loki, or bringing a stunner, but he's already forced you to change your playstyle in doing so. In a featured + 2 format, if you're running a two man combo (such as IF/IMHB, or PX/GSBW), if you choose to bring an answer to Thing, you're breaking up your combo.

    This leads me to my second point, which are the protect tiles that Rock Solid generates. At five covers, it creates five protect tiles for a total value of 1805, and if flipped, absolutely, will lose you the match. At three covers, though, it creates three tiles for 867, which is far less significant, if flipped. Three in yellow is a better build for PvP for this reason (since the change in damage threshold is minimal), and for the reason I'll elaborate on next. Again, the important thing about Rock Solid is that it forces your opponent to deal with Thing first. You don't need (and don't actually want) more than three covers in Rock Solid (unless you're building him for PvE). He'd work just as well with 1 in yellow.

    My third point is that it isn't enough to bring Thing just as a spoiler, he needs to be a credible threat as well, so he needs 5 in red, and 5 in green to have sufficient damage output to be a threat. I'd also add, that the two turn stun with 4888 damage for his red is incredibly useful, since there aren't a lot of targeted stuns with a damage component in 3* or 4* land.

    I ran a 295 Thing/240 SW/166 Hood for the Thing PvP, and was running at about 90% defensive wins, sitting unshielded at around 850. Admittedly, that's going to be a bit skewed because of the number of loaner Things out there, but I think he deserves a high rating. I also ran into Colog's team, which was 350 Thing/350 IMHB/350 some other 4*, and hit the skip button.
  • ShadowShadow Posts: 155
    Polares wrote:
    Well not a bad list, but I think Thing is a little bit to high, and Antman too down. Then Elektra better than Starlord? You sure? Even IW is better than Elektra icon_razz.gif

    If you really think Elektra is that weak (especially when compared to IW), then I don't think you've played with Elektra enough in PvE. Against non AoE opponents, Elektra is actually very strong.
  • ShadowShadow Posts: 155
    Malcrof wrote:
    What is the best rainbow 4* team?

    355 antman, 553 kp, 535 carnage. antman blue handles the carnage attack tiles, kingping charges antman's yellow and when one of those yellow tiles is down to 1, use kingpin's black. Quite a bit of synergy in this combination too.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Shadow wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Well not a bad list, but I think Thing is a little bit to high, and Antman too down. Then Elektra better than Starlord? You sure? Even IW is better than Elektra icon_razz.gif

    If you really think Elektra is that weak (especially when compared to IW), then I don't think you've played with Elektra enough in PvE. Against non AoE opponents, Elektra is actually very strong.

    Elektra to me seems better than star-lord in both are hit-or-miss in that they require you to carefully design a team for them (and benefit from particular opponents). But while star-lord is merely useful in ideal circumstances, Elektra is grudgingly good and very fast.

    So they are both lower tier 4*s, but when Elektra is worth using, she is probably one of the best options. When star-lord is worth using, there is probably someone else who would do just as well.

    I don't know how. But Elektra has somehow managed to become significantly underrated without actually being very good. . .
  • DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    I've been getting a lot of PM's about my ranking of the current group of 4*'s. Just so I can quit typing this out over and over.

    1.) (tie) Hulkbuster and Professor X
    3.) Kingpin
    4.) Thing
    5.) 4* Thor
    6.) Ant-Man
    7.) Carnage
    8.) Fury
    9.) X-Force Wolverine
    10.) Elektra
    11.) Star-Lord
    12.) Invisible Woman
    13.) Devil Dinosaur

    There you go. Please remember this is just one player's opinion it isn't meant to be definitive or the only answer. I'm just doing this because it seems some players are interested in my thoughts and I am willing to share them on this subject.

    I agree with everything except I think HB is more useful than PX. He is a better stand alone character, while PX does better with certain characters. I wouldn't say the gap is huge, but I think its enough to seperate them into 1st and 2nd.

    I also think that XForce is better than fury. Fury doesn't offer any low cost abilities like XForce, making him less risky to take down. It really comes down to XForce black vs Nick's blue, and I think his black is better overall.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    I agree with everything except I think HB is more useful than PX. He is a better stand alone character, while PX does better with certain characters. I wouldn't say the gap is huge, but I think its enough to seperate them into 1st and 2nd.
    To me, HB is essential for high end PvP, and PX is essential for high end PvE. Neither can do what the other can do in the area in which they excel.
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512ThatOneGuyjp189512 Posts: 543 Critical Contributor
    1.) (tie) Hulkbuster and Professor X
    3.) Kingpin
    4.) Thing
    5.) 4* Thor
    6.) Ant-Man
    7.) Carnage
    8.) Fury
    9.) X-Force Wolverine
    10.) Elektra
    11.) Star-Lord
    12.) Invisible Woman
    13.) Devil Dinosaur
    .

    Totally agree on this list, especially carnage, he's my favorite character to use but his sustainability is his weak point, but, put him with Ant-man and you've got a complete match damage rainbow, only missing an active black(Hello X-Force!) and his blue stealing all those enemy attack tiles....hes gonna be my 3rd 4* and will be run with carnage a lot.
    raisinbman wrote:
    you forgot to say your credentials or certain forum goers will disregard what you have to say entirely.

    his credentials are that he's got a roster with every single character maxed out, when i wanna know what a new character's maxed stats are, his roster is where i go to look and i know dozens of others who do the same, so what are your credentials? i've never heard of you in this forum, you're not in a top alliance and you're just....unknown to me
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    raisinbman wrote:
    you forgot to say your credentials or certain forum goers will disregard what you have to say entirely.

    his credentials are that he's got a roster with every single character maxed out, when i wanna know what a new character's maxed stats are, his roster is where i go to look and i know dozens of others who do the same, so what are your credentials? i've never heard of you in this forum, you're not in a top alliance and you're just....unknown to me

    If you haven't heard of him, you probably don't read many threads (not a diss, just saying, he is incredibly active, as am i)

    But..credentials, well.. he has won some imaginary awards, i believe most start with Most Tinykitty Adjective.. icon_e_biggrin.gificon_e_biggrin.gif

    I actually think he was trying to be helpful, as we all try to be, and failed, as we all do at times, a touch more explanation and it all makes sense.. (yes, i am defending raisin here)

    The forum has had a major increase in new people lately, and Colognoisseur is a HUGE help to anyone who is new to the game or the forums, so yah, i have to agree, when he posts something like this , he should link a few things like his guides etc....
    This way new people know that it is not just a random person posting random stuff, but a highly respected, helpful, and valued member of the forum, doing what he does best, helping those of us who need it.

    So basically, YO COLOGNOISSEUR! You need a sig man!
  • sc0villesc0ville Age Unconfirmed Posts: 115 Tile Toppler
    evil panda wrote:
    So my alliance mates have all been telling me that kingpin is underrated. This is interesting stuff

    I actually thought that Carnage was going to be #3 because he would dominate the endgame pvp scarecrow/shield hopping role. Ruining someone's day on defense, and causing enough mayhem on offense that you don't care about the self damage because you're hopping with enough health packs anyway

    But after playing him (finally) boosted to max in BoP he doesn't quite put it together.

    Same disappointment with carnage for me. I was thinking of investing some serious ISO in him, but after test driving a fully leveled one via BoP I left unimpressed as well. He's annoying, but not threatening enough it feels like. Maybe I didn't surround him with the right partners.

    I had the same reaction to Carnage during BOP, he's a decent scarecrow, but he's not a very fast character. Of course Bop isn't the best place to test out a character, even though you get the full benefit of their hp, you face teams with more hp than you'd normally expect and with power subsets that you'll never see in legitimate pvp.

    That being said I've reclassified Carnage in my mind, he's not a high end pvp character, he's a good scarecrow when you're floating in the 700s and don't want to be attacked. It's a pretty niche role.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    Carnage helped me deal with all those pesky 150+ health packs I got for clearing my vault. icon_e_smile.gif

    He's actually really good in a team with a red and green battery (5/3/5). I like him with KK or Thor and Cyclops/Hulkbuster/Marvel. Obviously you want a maxed Marvel, probably 3/5/5 and Carnage needs to be slightly lower level so that she tanks his red/black.

    My KK is 3/5/5, but ideally she would be 5/5/3 to help fuel Carnage and heal the party every Red.

    I really like carnage with hulkbuster... mostly because I still haven't found a red cover and he's 0/5/5. His black strike tiles feed carnage's red AP and the value of the strike tiles triples because of the AoE. His blue clashes with green collection, but on a team with KK you can use IS to turn unusable colors (like yellow) into green and then use hulkbuster's blue to create a ton of red.

    I actually used Cyc/Carnage/Doom a bit in lightning rounds, but Carnage's best friend is strike tiles, so that team fell out of favor.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,592 Chairperson of the Boards
    Shadow wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Well not a bad list, but I think Thing is a little bit to high, and Antman too down. Then Elektra better than Starlord? You sure? Even IW is better than Elektra icon_razz.gif

    If you really think Elektra is that weak (especially when compared to IW), then I don't think you've played with Elektra enough in PvE. Against non AoE opponents, Elektra is actually very strong.

    Well I am exaggerating of course, Elektra is a little bit better after her buff, but I dont like her. For me she only has one good power ( the other one is circumstantial and red is just meh), and it is a power not very exciting to play (and very easy to deal if playing against her). On the other hand, yeah IW is bad, but she is not that bad against tiles generators and has a green nuke (dont forget her as the other char with a green nuke) that creates cascades too.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 764 Critical Contributor
    In regard to Elektra, Star-Lord, Invisible Woman.

    I have situations in PvE where I use all of them but they are the situational tier of 4* land.
    There are times where they can be awesome but more often they have little effect.

    That being said one of them will make up part of my response team if a certain other character becomes prevalent in the PvP meta.
  • WobbyWobby Age Unconfirmed Posts: 286 Mover and Shaker
    In regard to Elektra, Star-Lord, Invisible Woman.

    I have situations in PvE where I use all of them but they are the situational tier of 4* land.
    There are times where they can be awesome but more often they have little effect.

    That being said one of them will make up part of my response team if a certain other character becomes prevalent in the PvP meta.

    So cryptic.. I think you mean that Star-Lord will help you to deal with the prevalence of Carnage/Devil Dino's in PVP... 5 purple for dancing arms... Take that!
  • DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Shadow wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Well not a bad list, but I think Thing is a little bit to high, and Antman too down. Then Elektra better than Starlord? You sure? Even IW is better than Elektra icon_razz.gif

    If you really think Elektra is that weak (especially when compared to IW), then I don't think you've played with Elektra enough in PvE. Against non AoE opponents, Elektra is actually very strong.

    The best way to get 4*s is PVP, so PVE tends to be less relevant at this level. Elektra is close to useless in PVP. Even if you fight a character who drops strikes that you can take, you are also leaving yourself wide open for an attack by others since she is easy to take down.

    Like IW, she is one of those "toolset" characters that you only bring out for specialized attacks on specific nodes. This significantly reduces how much you play the character, so at the same time their usefulness to your roster overall.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Moderator post (redux):

    Please do not bring threads off-topic with personal grudges and, just as importantly, please don't respond to those who do so. Continuing the off-topic conversation just further derails the thread.

    This is not to say that people can't discuss the culture or tone of this forum, but please keep it civil and keep it in Off-Topic.

    I have removed the off-topic posts (except for a couple that also had on-topic comments) from this thread.

    Thanks,

    -DayvBang
  • franckynightfranckynight Posts: 582 Critical Contributor
    Best rainbow 4* team? Kp/HB/thing.. Even the ai cant do wrong with this team.. Lack some aoe but the high pool of health let you time to cast all big abilities..
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512ThatOneGuyjp189512 Posts: 543 Critical Contributor
    In regard to Elektra, Star-Lord, Invisible Woman.

    I have situations in PvE where I use all of them but they are the situational tier of 4* land.
    There are times where they can be awesome but more often they have little effect.

    That being said one of them will make up part of my response team if a certain other character becomes prevalent in the PvP meta.

    Mostly i've heard from Locked that bringing elektra to 395 muscle nodes makes them easier cause of her strike tile stealing abilities, and star lord, i'm not exactly seeing a good use beyond his 2(to be fair they're pretty good) damage abilities.
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