Infinite AP 2* team never ends its turn

Unknown

I've done a lot of reading and although the characters below are often mentioned as powerful, I haven't seen them recommended as strongly as I believe they should be. In fact, I still see some comments about how Cap is good for long goon grinds and such, which might be true but can't possibly be as good as never giving the other team a move. This post is relevant for early transitioners or those who have accidentally messed up their PvE scaling by over-leveling a character before the rest of their roster is ready.

The trio is of course Thor (355), Mags (355), CStorm (553). Mags/Cstorm is mentioned very often for blue/red stun/dmg and board churn, but what I have not seen stressed is the Mags/Thor/Cstorm combo to feed Cstorm's green. If you just wait to get ~30 green, then from that point on I've never had the computer take another move, even with 7 waves of 4+ enemies each:

Mags 9 purple => 7 blue (on average, given matches with existing blues) + 5 red + cascades
Thor 8 red => 3 Yellow (whenever you don't have a better move and don't have 30 yellow)
Thor 12 yellow => 9 Green + cascades
Storm 12 Green => 30 rainbow + cascades (feeds purple for Mags)

Each cycle of skills costs 41 AP and earns 54 AP + cascades. Of course you won't do them in exact sequence, but rather use whichever skill is maxed and will provide AP of colors that aren't maxed.

As you go you can use accumulated blue to stun and damage the entire enemy team. In the worst case you just stun all 3 of them for 4 turns (if the AoE damage hasn't killed them yet), and then do some matching as needed to get your skills going again. If you're going to do that (or just want to let them take a turn in case they're pure goons) then you can also use Mag's red instead of Thor's to do a big chunk of damage and earn more rainbow AP while doing more board churn, but feeding Thor's yellow should take priority over Mag's rainbow churn in most cases.

I know this isn't any kind of revelation to experienced players, but in my research while going through my first few months of playing I didn't see this pointed out (and it would have helped me especially with the DDQ waves for 3* covers), and I'm curious to hear from vets why they think any other 2* PvE team should be used by a transitioner. In short matches that won't build to infinite AP, there is so much firepower that the team basically can't loose without insanely bad board luck. In longer matches, things like strike/attack tiles, regen, AP steal, healing, and stun are irrelevant because this team just keeps spamming skills without ever ending its turn (and does some stun along the way, which helps to get started in the common case of 1 real enemy + 2 goons).

Mawtful

Indeed it's great that you have discovered this, and I appreciate the time you took to write this up.

Now, please, delete the post entirely; I use this team for DDQ and I don't want it to get patched away.

Unknown

Well done OP, but collecting 12ap yellow AP is no mean feat at times.

It's those kind of team-up that can naturally help each other out. Not entirely different from Iron-fist feeding black to help IMHB, who in turn can put out strike tiles which also gives that extra burn to Fist's green passive. Of course I'm not referring to AP gain here, but you get my point: They are more naturally in sync with each other than other combos.

Going slightly off-topic, your choice of name for your post, join-date and experience in the matter make me very wary about your intentions of posting this. Who are you really?

scottee

Thor yellow into storm green works at the 3* level too. Loki pink as the third, which generates a lot of ap when the board is unbalanced (heavy green or yellow). The infinite isn't as surefire as other combos and can take a bit to get going, but this one also hadn't been needed. But it's slow too, as there's no big nukes.

Unknown

Deadpooool wrote:

Going slightly off-topic, your join-date and experience in the matter make me very wary about your intentions of posting this. Who are you really?

Heh, didn't expect that response! I guess I'm a lurker, if you could call it that after a week or so. I'm only on day 75 in-game, thus my "experience" with PVE and 2* transitioning. I started sifting through 3* covers without enough roster space, so searched for some guidance and found these forums... read through Polarity's and Dauthi's guides after I had already built up my 2* roster (mostly), and was surprised by not seeing this in there, and that other suggestions were made for long wave/goon grinds (Cap and OBW). I've also seen other suggestions for punching over your weight (Hulk/Patch), but not this one which can literally beat anything in the game if you can survive to get it going, and is available much sooner to folks like me (those who don't want to pay much if any).

I just signed up to PM and look for an alliance, and thought I'd toss this up to help others and to see what I'm missing about the other recommended PvE characters. I honestly expected something like "Yes that's a good team, but here's why these other 2* PvE teams rock more..."

Back on topic, I ran Thor with 553 at first (red instead of green) because I always use Storm's green in this team, but then I started trying Thor on other teams (OBW/Ares) to try out PvP, and I believe his green is generally better than his red. That's why I have him as 355 in the OP. Damage optimization isn't important here anyway due to the "infinite AP".

scottee wrote:

Thor yellow into storm green works at the 3* level too.

Yeah, especially 3*Thor is a perfect upgrade. 3*Storm, though, has a different green that doesn't seem like it would work quite as well (14 gained for 10 cost vs. 30/12), and no stun to get going or skip over bad luck patches.

Unknown

Sundance2112 wrote:

Deadpooool wrote:

Going slightly off-topic, your join-date and experience in the matter make me very wary about your intentions of posting this. Who are you really?

Heh, didn't expect that response! I guess I'm a lurker, if you could call it that after a week or so. I'm only on day 75 in-game, thus my "experience" with PVE and 2* transitioning. I started sifting through 3* covers without enough roster space, so searched for some guidance and found these forums... read through Polarity's and Dauthi's guides after I had already built up my 2* roster (mostly), and was surprised by not seeing this in there, and that other suggestions were made for long wave/goon grinds (Cap and OBW). I've also seen other suggestions for punching over your weight (Hulk/Patch), but not this one which can literally beat anything in the game if you can survive to get it going, and is available much sooner to folks like me (those who don't want to pay much if any).

I just signed up to PM and look for an alliance, and thought I'd toss this up to help others and to see what I'm missing about the other recommended PvE characters. I honestly expected something like "Yes that's a good team, but here's why these other 2* PvE teams rock more..."

Back on topic, I ran Thor with 553 at first (red instead of green) because I always use Storm's green in this team, but then I started trying Thor on other teams (OBW/Ares) to try out PvP, and I believe his green is generally better than his red. That's why I have him as 355 in the OP. Damage optimization isn't important here anyway due to the "infinite AP".

scottee wrote:

Thor yellow into storm green works at the 3* level too.

Yeah, especially 3*Thor is a perfect upgrade. 3*Storm, though, has a different green that doesn't seem like it would work quite as well (14 gained for 10 cost vs. 30/12), and no stun to get going or skip over bad luck patches.

I might be biased, but I dislike the term "infinite AP", since we've seen the actual winfinite combo of Mystique and MNMags get nerfed, and I'm still pretty sore about that.

Back on topic, The only other 2* team which "rocks more" in my opinion is OBW / CStorm/ MNMags. if OBW is in front, she steals pink AP all the way, which speeds up MNMags pink skill some to execute the combo ending with CStorm's Blue.

Another team of 2* you might want to consider is OBW / AWolvie / Daken, where the point of the team is basically lots of heal, lots of steal and lots of extra damage double bite. This is also a viable option for wave nodes as OBW's blue can heal herself and team repeatedly while slowing down those pesky AI goon countdowns.

Another 2* team to consider, though less commonly used by myself back then, is Torch / Daken / (Obw, Thor, AWolvie or Ares), the focus of this team would be on Torch's Green and black burn. With Daken's strike tiles, they can punch way above their weight. Technically torch is already a one-man-army like Ares, but his health is a big factor, which is why you should consider "hiding" him to bring out his fullest potential.

Generally your choice of team depends on who you're fighting and how you're gonna counter the enemy, so there isn't one team that will rule them all.

There you go, alternatives to your dream team. The reason for my initial response is because of the way you phrased the title of your thread: "Infinite AP 2* team never ends its turn", which to me is trying to provoke a reaction to it. I seriously think it's not just about asking for better team alternatives.

Lemminkäinen

**Thor, **Daken, **Mags is how I've been killing DDQ. The damage output is pretty crazy once it gets going and I've failed DDQ exactly once with this team once I got them to 94. Neither of the non-goon waves ever gets a move off since they die to Thor's Green. His Yellow makes more Green and more Daken Attack Tiles. And Mags's Purple makes sure that pesky Goon abilities never go off since you can snipe with it quite nicely. Daken's Blue can be used to kill off big hitters (and it makes more Green for Thor). I've tried OBW instead of Daken but it just makes things slower. Maybe more realiable but it is plenty realiable already.

puppychow

Whenever you get to it, try Hood, Loki, Human Torch combo. It's designed for ap drain with outlet towards HT gr/red. If you are patient and accumulate enough gr, bk, red, yel, you could make 10+ moves in a single turn. How's that for an infinite combo?

Unfortunately, I reach that point in like only 10% of the time. It's not a frequent occurrence, and too time consuming to use for shield hopping in pvp events. But it's great for shield sim during the early weeks of the event.

puppychow

Since ppl are going OT and referring to DDQ, I've been using xf/rogers/obw combo to clear the survival node. Basically this team offers the ultimate flexibility in the game, with ap drain, stun, tile removal & selection, protect tiles, strong damage. The weakness of this combo is that it is ap costly, and takes a while to build up. But once you use the goon rounds to accumulate enough ap, you basically control the match.

Unknown

Deadpooool wrote:

The reason for my initial response is because of the way you phrased the title of your thread: "Infinite AP 2* team never ends its turn", which to me is trying to provoke a reaction to it.

I phrased it that way because of what I think is the key advantage of this team over all others, and especially over all others I've seen recommended in guides and 'tips' posts. There are lots of comments about how good Thor is, and how great Mags/CStorm are as an offensive combo, but no mentions I could find about how these three can never end their turn thanks to "infinite AP". With just a little bit of restraint (not using CStorm green 'till ~30 AP) this team can never lose, which seemed worthy of a strong subject line.

LXSandman

Sundance2112 wrote:

Deadpooool wrote:

The reason for my initial response is because of the way you phrased the title of your thread: "Infinite AP 2* team never ends its turn", which to me is trying to provoke a reaction to it.

I phrased it that way because of what I think is the key advantage of this team over all others, and especially over all others I've seen recommended in guides and 'tips' posts. There are lots of comments about how good Thor is, and how great Mags/CStorm are as an offensive combo, but no mentions I could find about how these three can never end their turn thanks to "infinite AP". With just a little bit of restraint (not using CStorm green 'till ~30 AP) this team can never lose, which seemed worthy of a strong subject line.

Seriously 30 Green? I mean, if you get 30 green you have probably already won anyway. Sure, this is a great team. But the "Infinite" part of this team is a completely random AP generation from Storm. This isn't like the true infinite teams where they each generate the colour you need to continue the cycle - aka you are just hoping that Storm/Thor generates enough yellow to continue.

I'm glad you have found this great team, but posting something like this is going to get people riled up. This isn't really an infinite team. This is a "Hey if I save up 30 AP I can generally win".

That said.... It's still an amazing team, and a staple of 2* life.

Kolence

The key thing in that team is you have to wait "just until" Storm has 30 AP (or a little less, 26+ is pretty safe to start the combo). Regardless, it still takes time, which you won't always have if you go against a strong and quick 3* team.
You could also swap Thor with 2* Ms. Marvel (with 5 yellow) and even Magneto with Moonstone. That team is also capable of keeping their turn a long time.
All this proves is that a good synergy team that shuffles the board/generates AP well (on multiple colors) is a slow but a mostly safe way to beat difficult PvE fights. In PvP speed is what matters the most, so not a problem.

Unknown

Lovely, there is one slightly above decent team available to a 2* player, and someone has to make a topic outlining it in it's entirety.

First SW, now this?

Any chance we could have less of these, "Hey, I just noticed something that actually makes MPQ fun for someone other than the folks who have 30+ fully-covered 3* characters, so D3 should probably take a look at it" threads?

Thanks.

DBC

GrimSkald

LXSandman wrote:

Seriously 30 Green? I mean, if you get 30 green you have probably already won anyway. Sure, this is a great team. But the "Infinite" part of this team is a completely random AP generation from Storm. This isn't like the true infinite teams where they each generate the colour you need to continue the cycle - aka you are just hoping that Storm/Thor generates enough yellow to continue.

I'm glad you have found this great team, but posting something like this is going to get people riled up. This isn't really an infinite team. This is a "Hey if I save up 30 AP I can generally win".

That said.... It's still an amazing team, and a staple of 2* life.

On the flip side - the fact that it takes so much AP to get into the endless loop also means that it is not likely that it will be nerfed. There are definitely ways of getting into an endless (or near-endless, which is more likely,) loop where the opponent doesn't get to act. So long as they're not overly easy to get into (hello, MnMags Mystique,) they are not inherently a problem - characters with synergy are the life of the game.

metallion

Sundance2112 wrote:

Mags 9 purple => 7 blue (on average, given matches with existing blues) + 5 red + cascades
Thor 8 red => 3 Yellow (whenever you don't have a better move and don't have 30 yellow)
Thor 12 yellow => 9 Green + cascades
Storm 12 Green => 30 rainbow + cascades (feeds purple for Mags)

I use this exact team on DDQ daily (although with 3* Thor), and I have never ever used his red. MNMag's red works much better simply for the fact that it does 2k dmg AND generates AP. 3 unguaranteed yellow vs 25 guaranteed random tiles, I'll pick the random tiles any day, thank you very much, on a good strike I can get more than 3 yellows.

My sequence of working daily

MNMag into 5++ + 5++ + cascades
MNMag into 25 rainbow, feeds all powers here (well you get 9 if you're unlucky, but that's still better than 3 unguaranteed AP from Thor's red)
Thor into , feeds Storm (and Thor if you prefer going for a Wind Storm + CTS game-ending combo like me)
Storm 30 rainbow, feeds all powers here
rinse and repeat until you're happy

Yea you might say MNMag red takes a turn to work, I say never use this against a tile mover without stunning him with Wind Storm first.

Lemminkäinen

metallion wrote:

3 unguaranteed yellow vs 25 guaranteed random tiles, I'll pick the random tiles any day, thank you very much, on a good strike I can get more than 3 yellows.

Your Red Mags seems to work differently from mine if it guarantees 25 random tiles

CrookedKnight

The other reason this team is never going to get nerfed is because it's only really good against survival nodes, especially now that community scaling in PvE is a thing of the past and overscaled 3-on-3 fights are much less prominent. If you've got Thor in your team and have built up 30 green AP, the match and Thunder Strike damage that got you to that point should be more than enough to win the fight once you throw two Call the Storms in. No infinite necessary.

over_clocked

Don't use cStorm green at 30 AP, it's currently bugged AFAIK. If you use it at 30 AP, the ability won't pick up green AP since it will consider the green AP tank full before replenishing green.

TxMoose

don't get your panties in a wad people. this strategy has been outlined countless times for big enchilada help. however, the term 'infinite ap' or 'winfinite' is a touchy subject around here with seemingly nerf-happy ears around. that was my enchilada team for many months before my ***s took over and i'll still use them if I ever wipe with my cap/falcon/blade team.

Unknown

Sundance2112 wrote:

I'm curious to hear from vets why they think any other 2* PvE team should be used by a transitioner.

Speed. You're going to take damage ramping up to this much AP, especially if one of your characters may be downed by enemies. Many matches you just won't have the opportunity to do so, as you need to use moves to quickly down a character. You don't have great short term or long term countdown defense. If you use polarity shift to take out 1 countdown, you're hampering your AP generation. Ares might be better for a quicker attack and as a tank - he can tank green for Storm (Thor doesn't). His red can be great in a rougher battle, especially if you save up for 2. Magneto red can be better for AP generation as well as damage compared to Thor's red anyways. OBW is a better AP denier for particular matches. This focuses largely on Purple => Blue. To keep Polarity Shift's efficacy, it's better to leave some blue on the board. This may cause issues when attacking strong blue users like Daken. Further, few nodes require you to deny purple hard. Against Ares, it can be particularly dangerous, where an OBW\Thor or Daken\Wolverine combo might be a better counter. Poor against Ninjas, Doom, ...

There's a lot of other situations. I seriously doubt this combo will be re-nerfed as it's too starting AP dependent.

Punisher5784

quote="Sundance2112"]I'm curious to hear from vets why they think any other 2* PvE team should be used by a transitioner.[/quote]

It sounds like a lot of work to gather all of that AP. You'll likely be dead before you gather that match to create some sort of infinite loop. I find these types of approaches work best against goons because you can carefully plan your moves (most of the time).

I agree with Daibar, speed is the best approach. During my 2* days, I relied heavily on Daken, Wolverine w/ OBW/Thor/Ares as the heavy hitters.

Daken and Wolv can take much abuse due to their quick healing ability. Daken and Wolv's are such a great 2* team: Match green to build Wolv's Feral Claws which creating strike tiles, then when you build up enough blue for Daken, use his ability to clear the strikes then make more with Wolv green. I just keep spamming those two skills over and over. They are cheap and do decent damage. Wolv' Adamantium Slash is such a great single-target damage for a 2* as well.

You can easily climb to 300 in PVP to grab your token and can continually use them in PVE. Even when they are badly damaged or dead, they heal back up so much faster then everyone else. I rarely used health packs.

Hope that helps.