How should Caltrops be nerfed?

20three
20three Posts: 371
edited August 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
Good grief I despise this attack, the perfect combination of power and cheapness. Here's a few suggestions that may help
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Comments

  • IlDuderino
    IlDuderino Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    Lots of good options, though if it had been available I would have voted for "Removed from the game"
  • [Engage sarcasm mode]

    You mean that game-breaking Hand ability that can only be defeated by the games most powerful moves like icon_storm.pngblackflag.png Hailstorm?

    It should just be scrapped entirely.

    [Sarcasm mode disengaged]

    icon_neutral.gif
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    I'd just like to have an icon on the guy who dropped the trap, so you can tell which one to kill first. Also i often don't know there's caltrops out until they hit me...very ninja...much subtile.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Eh, I'd rather see them use Caltrops and watch them bounce off Spidey's shields when I trigger them, than take a hit from Wolvie's or Gorgon's redflag.png . Granted, he is buffed this time, so a minor decrease in damage might be OK, but not so much that Hulk wouldn't be angry at them anymore. Then again, Spidey/Falcon plus a redtile.png / greentile.png / blacktile.png damage dealer seem to be able to tackle with ninja waves pretty well. I'd say they're OK as they are if you can come prepared to the fight.
  • it shouldn't, its a good medium of D3's interests vs the players interests - doesn't immediately pwn you, but you're probably going to take dmg
  • Linkster79
    Linkster79 Posts: 1,037 Chairperson of the Boards
    As a power it suits the type of enemy that drops it, and in keeping with the character they should be hidden, that being said it shouldn't affect the entire team.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Please learn to use characters that excel at dealing with this type of power. If you aren't using Hailstorm or other powers that flood the field then you are doing it wrong.
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    My only change would be to remove the aoe.. the person who sprung the trap takes the damage, like DD, Elektra, Fury.. no other AOE traps out there. As much as i hate them, i am just used to them now. i treat them like "thorns" in every RPG/MMO ever made.
  • nonnel
    nonnel Posts: 128 Tile Toppler
    They shouldn't be nerfed. The game needs to be challenging. If you want easy, go play Prologue.
  • TheOncomingStorm
    TheOncomingStorm Posts: 489 Mover and Shaker
    Why would they be nerfed? Because they're one of the few ai abilities that actually pose a challenge in the game?

    If you want a game with with 0 challenges, play Go Fish.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Caltrops are fine by me, although it seems a little weird thematically that they disappear when the Kishu dies and that they do team damage. I also wish that Daredevil could see or disarm traps for theme.

    It's true that I always target the Kishu first because of Caltrops, but I don't find it OP. In my opinion, trap powers should be threatening, because they are easily countered. Traps are really only effective against teams that cannot spam special tiles or tear apart the board.

    In the current EoS run, you can very effectively fight against Caltrops with the following buffed characters:
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_falcon.pngpurpleflag.png removes traps + protects
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_spiderman.pngpurpleflag.png protects
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_sentry.pnggreenflag.pngredflag.png removes traps
    star.pngstar.pngicon_storm.pnggreenflag.png removes traps
    star.pngstar.pngicon_magneto.pngblueflag.pngredflag.png removes traps


    This might also be a good time to look outside the buffed characters for characters that are better counters:
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_wolverine.pngblackflag.pnggreenflag.pngyellowflag.png removes traps
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_storm.pngblackflag.png removes traps
  • LXSandman
    LXSandman Posts: 196 Tile Toppler
    I think the only change required is that they don't go off if the Kishu is stunned, and they don't go off when you kill the Kishu with the match. Those seem reasonable enough.

    They suck, obviously, but I tend to agree that you need to have some challenge in the game. I just think they should have a way included to manage that challenge with forethought and strategy. As it is now you really can't manage it at all without just killing them.

    LXSandman
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    LXSandman wrote:
    I think the only change required is that they don't go off if the Kishu is stunned, and they don't go off when you kill the Kishu with the match. Those seem reasonable enough.

    They suck, obviously, but I tend to agree that you need to have some challenge in the game. I just think they should have a way included to manage that challenge with forethought and strategy. As it is now you really can't manage it at all without just killing them.

    LXSandman

    It is a trap.. a landmine is still going to go off if you step on it, regardless of whether or not you take out the person that put it there...
  • 20three
    20three Posts: 371
    nonnel wrote:
    They shouldn't be nerfed. The game needs to be challenging. If you want easy, go play Prologue.

    Wow dude, you're sooooo hardcore...
  • LXSandman
    LXSandman Posts: 196 Tile Toppler
    Malcrof wrote:

    It is a trap.. a landmine is still going to go off if you step on it, regardless of whether or not you take out the person that put it there...

    I hear ya. In that case then the trap should stay for the whole match regardless of you killing the Kishu or not. Now if that was true I believe you would have to nerf something else about the trap to make that balanced.

    On balance I think they are relatively fine... especially since we really have to deal with them very rarely.

    LXSandman
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raise the cost so they can't drop new Caltrops on consecutive turns.
    Let us see which enemy is placing a trap so we know which Kishu to kill to get rid of them.

    There, now it's way less frustrating and still requires some degree of thought in your party makeup to counter.
  • Lidolas
    Lidolas Posts: 500
    In the other poll, I voted for it as my least favorite goon ability. But it isn't overpowered. I wouldn't change it.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2015
    Caltrops are a well designed power. They are very annoying to fight, but rarely game-ending. They force play style adaptatioin, and the damage gets a little crazy above level 275, but I don't think a nerf is necessary.

    Feeder goons powering active villains is a much more frustrating tactic. Active powers tend to be balanced with ap collection in mind, so more powerful powers cost much more ap. Feeder goons break that dynamic by removing any obstacle to collecting the necessary ap. By itself, this is ok. But with high scaling this becomes very frustrating. Knowing that defeating any later node in eots basically requires eating an adamantium and/or debilitating slash (or twin pistols in meet r&g) is far more obnoxious.
  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
    Malcrof wrote:
    It is a trap.. a landmine is still going to go off if you step on it, regardless of whether or not you take out the person that put it there...

    That being said, they disappear when you kill the Kishu.

    I'm more concerned with Daredevil being able to Ambush when he's stunned.
  • It's a villain only thing that you (mostly) only see in EotS. Does it inspire hatred of Kishu and all that they stand for? Yes. Should you probably kill that Kishu even before Wolverine? Probably. The ability is fine tho, it's annoying as hell but what do you expect from a villain?

    I could see making it target specific tho and increasing it's damage. Say instead of 1,000 group damage you get 1,500 to whoever is tanking that tile. That could lead to insta gibbs where you match 2 or 3 of them together tho.