Vault:150 days play for 3750 hp and 20k ISO, worth it?

eidehua

I do hope the tokens carry over every week or every week we would have another page of tokens in the archive!

Unknown

Statistically, the chance to get one of the 4* is 1%. Personally, I doubt it's worth the time and effort going after the 4* in this way. I bet it will be easier and, possibly, more fun to go after 1000 in a pvp, than hoarding tokens and using them 2-3 times a year. If I could stockpile the health packs, now that would be interesting, but as things are now, health packs and ISO pulls will feel very disappointing.

dkffiv

Narkon wrote:

Statistically, the chance to get one of the 4* is 1%. Personally, I doubt it's worth the time and effort going after the 4* in this way. I bet it will be easier and, possibly, more fun to go after 1000 in a pvp, than hoarding tokens and using them 2-3 times a year. If I could stockpile the health packs, now that would be interesting, but as things are now, health packs and ISO pulls will feel very disappointing.

In the old system a 1500 ISO pull would've been a 2* cover so unless you still need 2* covers, that's 6x more ISO.

Dauthi

eidehua wrote:

I do hope the tokens carry over every week or every week we would have another page of tokens in the archive!

They won't. "Sweet" tacos is definitely a catagory, and there are plenty more from those categories. Spicy, Savory, Salty, Sour, Bitter etc. They aren't even going to throw us that bone...

Mawtful

wade66 wrote:

All these comments about hoarding exist under the assumption that tokens can carry over. It is highly possible that the "sweet" comment after the vault is a sub-designation, and only the tokens with the same sub-designation can be used during that run. If they change it every reset, hoarding tokens would be pointless.

I think it's highly likely that there'll be alternating sweet and sour tacos, just like the old 'A' & 'B' weeks for the old tacos.

So it'll be 300 days, but you'll have 2 stacks of 150 each.

DrStrange-616

Mawtful wrote:

wade66 wrote:

All these comments about hoarding exist under the assumption that tokens can carry over. It is highly possible that the "sweet" comment after the vault is a sub-designation, and only the tokens with the same sub-designation can be used during that run. If they change it every reset, hoarding tokens would be pointless.

I think it's highly likely that there'll be alternating sweet and sour tacos, just like the old 'A' & 'B' weeks for the old tacos.

So it'll be 300 days, but you'll have 2 stacks of 150 each.

How would that work if the non-featured 3*s are random?

Dauthi

Mawtful wrote:

wade66 wrote:

All these comments about hoarding exist under the assumption that tokens can carry over. It is highly possible that the "sweet" comment after the vault is a sub-designation, and only the tokens with the same sub-designation can be used during that run. If they change it every reset, hoarding tokens would be pointless.

I think it's highly likely that there'll be alternating sweet and sour tacos, just like the old 'A' & 'B' weeks for the old tacos.

So it'll be 300 days, but you'll have 2 stacks of 150 each.

But why would they do that? The only reason is to stop us from hoarding, so really it is up to them how much they want to keep us from actually benefiting from their new system that was supposed to benefit us.

Mawtful

DrStrange-616 wrote:

How would that work if the non-featured 3*s are random?

More or less the same way it worked before.

Sweet tacos draw from the sweet vault, if you don't like what's in there you just wait for it to rotate.

Mawtful

Dauthi wrote:

But why would they do that? The only reason is to stop us from hoarding, so really it is up to them how much they want to keep us from actually benefiting from their new system that was supposed to benefit us.

They want to encourage spending on Taco packs; DDQ benefits the bottom line now. Investors should be happy.

Dauthi

Mawtful wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

But why would they do that? The only reason is to stop us from hoarding, so really it is up to them how much they want to keep us from actually benefiting from their new system that was supposed to benefit us.

They want to encourage spending on Taco packs; DDQ benefits the bottom line now. Investors should be happy.

Truthfully I could have dealt with 300 rewards in the vault, and 75% of them being garbage, but only because you should be able to hoard tokens to get acceptable pull rates. They intend to take that away now though.

The only benefit out of all this is 4*s in DDQs, which has nothing to do with the vault anyways. It was disingenuous for them to hype up the vault as if it was going to help us. They should have been hyping it to their stockholders.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

Mawtful wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

But why would they do that? The only reason is to stop us from hoarding, so really it is up to them how much they want to keep us from actually benefiting from their new system that was supposed to benefit us.

They want to encourage spending on Taco packs; DDQ benefits the bottom line now. Investors should be happy.

Truthfully I could have dealt with 300 rewards in the vault, and 75% of them being garbage, but only because you should be able to hoard tokens to get acceptable pull rates. They intend to take that away now though.

The only benefit out of all this is 4*s in DDQs, which has nothing to do with the vault anyways. It was disingenuous for them to hype up the vault as if it was going to help us. They should have been hyping it to their stockholders.

Always take what the devs say with a grain of salt, especially when it has to do with benefiting the players. Very few changes are purely pro-user experience without any drawbacks or give-and-takes (respec, delete TU option, DDQ, roster slot price cap, health pack increase). And all of these have been added as afterthoughts or have been implemented after many months of begging and pleading from players. D3 and Demiurge do not believe in goodwill.

IReallyHatePVP

....Another "wait-and-see" situation. The Idea of hoarding tokens will become evident sometime in the July region of Season XVI.

Gonna try a day or three of pulls, tho. See how it works out. Maybe a vid...?

Cartz

Decided to give it a go. One token one X Force

I guess that's my luck used. Health packs here on out.

OnesOwnGrief

I would rather grind PvE. Ain't got no time to stock tokens for this.

rawfsu

I know we're waiting for answers as far as hoarding tacos goes, but I'm not impressed by The Vault AT ALL. Like several people have mentioned, The Vault rewards are a watered down version of the DPD quests that is NOT going to help most players. I don't know what the percentages are, but with an over abundance of ISO awards, health packs, HP, etc., they've taken a good system and made it worse. Yes, the old DPD was limited to one 250HP, one 1k HP, and an increased rate on a 3* covers featured for that week, and the rest certain 2* stars. That was the beauty though, it was LIMITED. The Vault contains 300 prizes, most of which are NOT going to improve your roster. It's nice for 4* stars, but there's three covers out of 300. Add the possibility that The Vault resets every 5 days, you have only ten times to try for items before you're starting from stratch. I find myself quite disappointed with this concept, but it's only day, so let's see what happens. It looks like I'm on my way to get Thing in PVE, so this may be my way to 4* covers from now on, along with the 10-pack from PVP.

dkffiv

rawfsu wrote:

I know we're waiting for answers as far as hoarding tacos goes, but I'm not impressed by The Vault AT ALL. Like several people have mentioned, The Vault rewards are a watered down version of the DPD quests that is NOT going to help most players. I don't know what the percentages are, but with an over abundance of ISO awards, health packs, HP, etc., they've taken a good system and made it worse. Yes, the old DPD was limited to one 250HP, one 1k HP, and an increased rate on a 3* covers featured for that week, and the rest certain 2* stars. That was the beauty though, it was LIMITED. The Vault contains 300 prizes, most of which are NOT going to improve your roster. It's nice for 4* stars, but there's three covers out of 300. Add the possibility that The Vault resets every 5 days, you have only ten times to try for items before you're starting from stratch. I find myself quite disappointed with this concept, but it's only day, so let's see what happens. It looks like I'm on my way to get Thing in PVE, so this may be my way to 4* covers from now on, along with the 10-pack from PVP.

I wish someone had a screenshot of the old tacos or a dev would post the odds but I believe it was a .33% chance for 2900 HP, 2% chance for 250 HP, 2% per 3* (x5, 10%), (no clue what the ISO one was) and the rest were 2*s. The odds on 3* doubled to 4% if you bought 10/40 packs but who actually spent HP on them? The new system is flat out better, I don't see why there are so many complaints (I'll take 1500 ISO over a 2* any day of the week). The old system was 2% chance for a 3* making it roughly .66% per cover - if you're looking for one specific color the odds are usually about the same but if there is only 1 of that color out of the 5+ then its worse / don't cash in your tokens.

3x 4* = 1%

(HP = 4.33%, average = 307.7)
1000 HP = .33%
12x 250 HP = 4%

42x 5 Health Pack = 14%
*In situations where you would actually buy health packs they are equivalent to 200 HP, resulting in
*(HP = 18.33% , average = 225.5)

(ISO = 11%, average = 1969.7)
10,000 ISO = .33%
2x 5000 ISO = .66%
30x 1500 ISO = 10%

(3* = 11.33%)
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
9x random 3* = 3%

175x random 2* = 58.33%

atomzed

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I would rather grind PvE. Ain't got no time to stock tokens for this.

No time? You only play 1 game and 1 survival node for 2 tokens daily. Each game are against enemies that are not scaled at all. It takes the minimal amount of time.

I can understand if you say that you are not interested became the rewards sucks... But to claim no time is just ridiculous. Ddq requires very very little time.

Unknown

I certainly hope we can hoard our tokens, because I for one can't even get 3* tokens out of Tacos, so I doubt I'd ever see a 4*.

Also, get rid of the Health Packs, seriously, if I open a Taco and see that as a reward, I'm only going to think D3 is trying to troll me and nothing more. Adding those to the prize pool is about the worst idea I've seen yet, Boosts would have more value, or heck create team-up rewards. I may prefer a character token, but I can at least see the value of a lvl 140 Call the Storm team-up boost over a Health Pack.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

I wish someone had a screenshot of the old tacos or a dev would post the odds but I believe it was a .33% chance for 2900 HP, 2% chance for 250 HP, 2% per 3* (x5, 10%), (no clue what the ISO one was) and the rest were 2*s. The odds on 3* doubled to 4% if you bought 10/40 packs but who actually spent HP on them? The new system is flat out better, I don't see why there are so many complaints (I'll take 1500 ISO over a 2* any day of the week). The old system was 2% chance for a 3* making it roughly .66% per cover - if you're looking for one specific color the odds are usually about the same but if there is only 1 of that color out of the 5+ then its worse / don't cash in your tokens.

It was .3% for 1000HP
4% for 250HP
2% for the five 3*'s being featured
and whatever for the 2*'s that we all sold immediately.

I believe you're confusing the rewards from the Ultron event which I think had 2900HP and a 10000 iso reward.

atomzed

dkffiv wrote:

3x 4* = 1%

(HP = 4.33%, average = 307.7)
1000 HP = .33%
12x 250 HP = 4%

42x 5 Health Pack = 14%
*In situations where you would actually buy health packs they are equivalent to 200 HP, resulting in
*(HP = 18.33% , average = 225.5)

(ISO = 11%, average = 1969.7)
10,000 ISO = .33%
2x 5000 ISO = .66%
30x 1500 ISO = 10%

(3* = 11.33%)
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
5x featured 3* = 1.66%
9x random 3* = 3%

175x random 2* = 58.33%

Monsoon wrote:

It was .3% for 1000HP
4% for 250HP
2% for the five 3*'s being featured
and whatever for the 2*'s that we all sold immediately.

So going by the number posted by this 2 individuals, the improvement are:
4* improvement to 1%, from 0%.
HP % remains the same
3* improvement to 11.3%, up from 10%. (amended the stats based on Dauthi input, thanks Dauthi!)

As dkffiv said, the odds are straight up better. And this is not including the fact that your rates improve when you open more tokens.

This new system is better even if you can't hoard tokens (and I will be very unhappy if we can't hoard tokens but I will still admit this vault gives better pulls.

gobstopper wrote:

Always take what the devs say with a grain of salt, especially when it has to do with benefiting the players. Very few changes are purely pro-user experience without any drawbacks or give-and-takes (respec, delete TU option, DDQ, roster slot price cap, health pack increase). And all of these have been added as afterthoughts or have been implemented after many months of begging and pleading from players. D3 and Demiurge do not believe in goodwill.

While I agree that we should take dev points with a pinch of salt, You cannot deny that the percentage are better than the previous system.

DDQ has been one of the most praised feature. Now they are updating it to include a token system that is straight up better than the previous one... And people complaint they are doing nothing?

This boggles me.

I mean I can understand if people want them to give better rates, go ahead and ask them to do so. But give them some credit. They done something to improve, acknowledge that at least... You can still say they should do more. But acknowledge the facts.