The devs have done well

wirius

Its very simple guys:

"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."

That's what this patch was. Now if you are one of the few who exclusively used thor and wolverine, or popped boosts like a drug, you're going to be upset. You had power! So much power! And now you don't. So you rage. Understandable, most people can't deal with a loss of power, even if its for the good of all.

But I'm going to try to explain how its beneficial anyway. Because I believe most people are pretty good, and can be reasoned with after the initial rage subsides.

1. Thor and Wolverine, are not destroyed, they are now at the power they were supposed to be.

** star characters shouldn't have been that much better than *** star characters, otherwise, why continue to climb? I think this has been addressed enough by the devs. Go check out their post if you need more justification.

2. You're not supposed to always win every PvE fight.

This one boggles me a little. Guys, if you think you should be winning every PvE fight, you're a little self entitled. The devs put fights out there that should be beyond certain players, and that's o.k. Sure, you're not going to earn as much as the team with the *** star roster, and you shouldn't. But you still can earn iso, covers, and keep building that team to one day compete.

"But the rich get richer!" you say. So what are they supposed to do? If you have a top roster you're...supposed to lose more? Even post nerf, my 85 Thor, with a 40 patch and OBW got in the top 20 in the daredevil tournament. Did I expect to hit top ten? Hell no. Did I expect to even hit top 50? Not really. There were plenty of PvE fights I couldn't do either. I don't feel entitled too if I don't have the characters.

3. You spent money on your character, yet you don't think about the benefit you got over those who didn't.

Look, you spent money on Thor or Wolv. Got it, you're pissed because instead of being overpowered, they're just good ** stars. What about all of those things you won when you had overpowered characters? Some of you had months of overpowered advantage, which was VERY worth the money compared to where you would be now if you didn't spend it. What about all the people who didn't have a chance to compete with you? I know you want to win, but was it a FAIR win? Are you upset and claiming its unfair that fairness in balancing has ruined your reign of power? Now you know what its like to be the super rich and be told taxes will increase, lol.

4. The devs had no way of tracking how much paid money and iso you spent on a character.

How do you expect a full refund? Did you honestly not expect balancing to occur as the game continued down the road? You knew what you were doing when you paid to get blatently overpowered characters, and you reaped their rewards. The devs don't owe you a single cent back.

After all, if the devs would refund a character completely after nerfs, wouldn't that only encourage more people to flood overpowered characters, knowing there would be no disadvantage to do so? Do we really want that?

5. Boosts should have been a real cost to gain advantage beyond what you were supposed to be at. Now they are.

Pretty self explanatory. Its a boost, not a drug or a needed form of gameplay. It was being abused. Now you have to think if you want to burn beyond your power level. Again, a good thing for the game.

Conclusion:

You may not agree with everything I've said, and that's fine. But I want you to take one thing from it: the developers are making these changes for the health of the game as a whole. Try to step outside of yourself, how it impacts you only, and start thinking about tons of other people who wish to play competitively too, and the long term health of a game that encourages variety, and not a few overpowered champs and ISO drug use.

darkmagearcanis

wirius wrote:

4. The devs had no way of tracking how much paid money and iso you spent on a character.

This is the only part that I disagree with. They should have this information available for analytic results. If they do not I feel very ashamed for them. As this type of information could be used to see how people are spending their HP other than "Oh this account spent 1250 or 500 HP today. I wonder what it was on or for what character?"

Just saying.

Edit: also some people received refunds for the Rag nerf.

Unknown

I kinda agree with everything, but one thing. Yes, they did this for the sake of the game. BUT, no one can deny that 100 HP for that boost is a pay 2 win feature. You pay, you win. And that's really, really bad.

Wobby

Smart post is smart.

The concept of depreciation seems lost on most folks here: why should you receive a 100% refund of ISO for selling characters you've been using to dominate for weeks/months? You were deriving a benefit from those guys.
This increased sell is a really good attempt to make up for the Rag debacle, (they told you it was coming, gave a generous out) and I think it is to their credit to have done so also.

Unknown

Caveat Emptor. Buyer beware. There should be a better saying specifically for mobile pay to win games... How about "Buyer don't spend a fortune on games in beta"

Wobby

someguy321 wrote:

I kinda agree with everything, but one thing. Yes, they did this for the sake of the game. BUT, no one can deny that 100 HP for that boost is a pay 2 win feature. You pay, you win. And that's really, really bad.

Agreed with that. But I don't see another way to effectively discourage it's use in the general balance pool.

The game was balanced so that we typically start from zero... So they needed to put these out of reach. (I for one never knew you could buy boosts so I never did.) the pay to win is a side-effect in my mind, not the true intent.

How would you balance otherwise? Increase every skill across the board by 2-3?

wirius

darkmagearcanis wrote:

wirius wrote:

4. The devs had no way of tracking how much paid money and iso you spent on a character.

This is the only part that I disagree with. They should have this information available for analytic results. If they do not I feel very ashamed for them. As this type of information could be used to see how people are spending their HP other than "Oh this account spent 1250 or 500 HP today. I wonder what it was on or for what character?"

Just saying.

Edit: also some people received refunds for the Rag nerf.

You know, you have a valid point. What they could have done is separate the currencies between paid iso and HP, and that would have done it. They didn't however, so it might not be part of their tracking. I honestly don't know.

NighteyesGrisu

someguy321 wrote:

I kinda agree with everything, but one thing. Yes, they did this for the sake of the game. BUT, no one can deny that 100 HP for that boost is a pay 2 win feature. You pay, you win. And that's really, really bad.

Sure it is. But then, what premium feature isn't p2w? Buying covers/iso/hero packs...everything you can buy pretty much is pay to win, no?

KidInsomnia

Best OP. Agree with it all the way through.

I've restarted my Thor and Wolvie (with OBW and C Storm next, as I had lacking maxed builds) and now I'm at a lower stature than I used to be when my Thor and Wolvie ruled the land, but damn is it fun out there. I discovered the amazingness of my nigh maxed MN Mags and it's a beautiful thing. Probably never would have discovered it without the nerfs.

And yeah, I don't expect to stumble my way into the top 5 if my roster isn't up to it and right now it's not. But it will be.

Unknown

Very inclined to agree with this post. Said the majority of what I would have to say

Really, as someone who's only acquired Thor/Wolverine after their nerfs, they seem to work fine without being crazy powerful. Seems a strong case of "They Changed it, Now It Sucks".

Also, I'd like to point out that giving refunds for Rag's nerf was a poor idea that set bad precedent.

KidInsomnia

Telicis wrote:

Very inclined to agree with this post. Said the majority of what I would have to say

Really, as someone who's only acquired Thor/Wolverine after their nerfs, they seem to work fine without being crazy powerful. Seems a strong case of "They Changed it, Now It Sucks".

Also, I'd like to point out that giving refunds for Rag's nerf was a poor idea that set bad precedent.

I'm VERY happy with my increased payout for selling Thor and Wolvie and starting over. I was able to spread levels out among the rest of my roster and really make good on my philosophy of leveling up every character at pretty much the same pace.

darkmagearcanis

wirius wrote:

You know, you have a valid point. What they could have done is separate the currencies between paid iso and HP, and that would have done it. They didn't however, so it might not be part of their tracking. I honestly don't know.

That is true also. I guess we will never know unless on of the devs would like to speak on this.

NighteyesGrisu

Telicis wrote:

Very inclined to agree with this post. Said the majority of what I would have to say

Really, as someone who's only acquired Thor/Wolverine after their nerfs, they seem to work fine without being crazy powerful. Seems a strong case of "They Changed it, Now It Sucks".

Also, I'd like to point out that giving refunds for Rag's nerf was a poor idea that set bad precedent.

I have no problem with refunds for those who bought Rag covers right before the nerf. Everybody else shouldn't get a refund, IMHO

And I totally agree, I can't understand the upset over Thor/Wolverine. They are not OP like before, but they are my main go to guys in the ** area....In fact, I just got destroyed by a Thor cascade...

Unknown

I agree with all of this. My only qualm with the PvE is if people need to lose, fine. But fix the levels. If the levels are set at 10/50/100/150/200/250 for example, then a player with a low cover count and low levels can only make it to 50/100 before getting stuck. They'll be ranked accordingly. Players with lots of strong 3* covers might be able to crack 200/250. Even with a maxed out Patch I still got rocked a few times by Juggernaut/Ares. But that's fair. They're hard, and they should be. But me facing 250s with a new player facing level 30s, and being outranked by him? Nah.

Unknown

I think your points are valid but you miss the point of why most people are up in arms about most of these changes. Why would you do that in the middle of a really hard event. So I disagree. They did a terrible job of executing changes for the good of the game. It's like deciding to do maintenance on your car while you're on a trip.

Don't agree with your point about refunds. You say that when you buy something you should always keep in mind that it will become useless or loose it's value in the future? Hilarious. But I guess that way of thinking is epidemic of the world we live in now. Bravo for shaming people for being upset when the item they buy is changed to the point where you are not happy with it or becomes useless. After all why try to keep your customers happy? We didn't give the developers anything for playing this game so why should we give our opinion about a game they chose to release to the public. Shame on them for posting their feedback in public forum about said game.

I also disagree with your point about boosts. It was always supposed to cost you and it did. With your hard earned ISO. Devs felt it's being over used or as you say "abused' (LOL). Why not increase it abit instead of making it something you buy. Effectively making it something most players will absolutely avoid so now it's no longer an advantage. One that I personally NEEDED to take on 230 teams in the last event.

/RANT

Unknown

Well said OP. This is what I have been feeling the whole time, but it seems these posts are 75% whine-fests. All of this was done for the greater good of the game. Boosts are exactly what they are called, boosts. I have a great team, I have never paid a cent, and never bought a boost.

The devs did a great job with announcing what changes to expect, and implementing them to increase variability in the game and to keep it competitive. You don;t have to spend money to win. I got a top 10 on the Thick as Thieves event without paying for boosts or health packs. It does not have to be P2W

Glad to know there are still plenty of people playing this game with a level head.

Unknown

Come on now, a 'for the game' change would look so much different. Just few point from top of my head:

= announce nerf changes detail 2 weeks ahead (refining if it gets changed in time)
= announce nerf activating date at least 1 week ahead, when no event is under way, or at least started before the announce
= announce all the other changes weeks ahead
= If AP palette considered evil scrap it completely. otherwise keep it accessible for ISO, not HP
= deploy basic respec system before nerfs

Just directly connected to recent changes. On the strategic scale I just don't see they work on anything that would reduce frustration attached to play by their deliberate design, AAMOF they keep adding to it and conserving the situation. Maybe inserting some hi-cost elements to make it less stinging. We could call it mugging.

Unknown

Global wrote:

Well said OP. This is what I have been feeling the whole time, but it seems these posts are 75% whine-fests. All of this was done for the greater good of the game. Boosts are exactly what they are called, boosts. I have a great team, I have never paid a cent, and never bought a boost.

The devs did a great job with announcing what changes to expect, and implementing them to increase variability in the game and to keep it competitive. You don;t have to spend money to win. I got a top 10 on the Thick as Thieves event without paying for boosts or health packs. It does not have to be P2W

Glad to know there are still plenty of people playing this game with a level head.

The people on this forum complaining do so because they care about the game. If the didn't they wouldn't be here.

Are the devs trying to improve the game? Yes. Are they doing it in the best order? Probably not. Putting in a skip tax when mmr and retaliations are so broken is not the best order of action. Make boosts cost hp instead of just removing them from pvp is making the game explicitly pay to win.

Also no one is complaining about the wolvie and thor nerfs. It's more a question of the timing they chose to roll out the nerfs.

Also, they really need to work on having comprehensive patch notes instead of being like "Oops, we forgot about that change" later

Unknown

Wobby wrote:

someguy321 wrote:

I kinda agree with everything, but one thing. Yes, they did this for the sake of the game. BUT, no one can deny that 100 HP for that boost is a pay 2 win feature. You pay, you win. And that's really, really bad.

Agreed with that. But I don't see another way to effectively discourage it's use in the general balance pool.

How come? If it's eliminated that discourages the use quite efficiently.

Unknown

Um, if you skipped through just about any pvp, almost everyone had a high level Thor or wolvie. They were the many, the guys who didn't were the few.

Demiurge_Will

darkmagearcanis wrote:

wirius wrote:

You know, you have a valid point. What they could have done is separate the currencies between paid iso and HP, and that would have done it. They didn't however, so it might not be part of their tracking. I honestly don't know.

That is true also. I guess we will never know unless on of the devs would like to speak on this.

If you earn a bunch of currency through play, buy a bunch of currency, and spend a bunch of currency in a bunch of different places, there's no clear way to determine that a particular batch of Iso-8/Hero Points was bought for a particular purpose. It has less to do with technical issues (though anything that would have to do with scraping the game's logs and doing something on the server in response would require engineering effort that we'd rather use to make the game better) and more to do with the nature of a currency. Increasing the sell price is easy to understand and seemed to us like a fair solution - it's helpful to hear your feedback on how it felt, thanks for that.