Thoughts of Frustration from The HP Suck Guy

mohio

Hi daveomite! I've noticed your relative absence on the forums and I'd say at least personally your presence has been missed. I can't say I blame you as I've been kind of the same lately and a lot of these same frustrations have been building up inside of me too. It'll be at least the second (but probably even more than that) time I reply to one of your posts saying simply I agree with what you wrote and feel I could have written the same post myself. Thank you for caring enough to take the time to write it. I fear I've grown too cynical about the game and devs so I just keep this **** to myself knowing it won't change. Yet still I hope it does.

TheOncomingStorm

theapropos wrote:

Well dave, I've been playing for a year. And I do agree with with you problems like servers going down, missed compensations should not still be a problem. If it has been so long and we are still getting this , when exactly are they going to get the act together? However our alliance did get the 10 pack compensation. Send a ticket, they are quite responsive.

The part I don't agree on is the nerfing of OP characters. Our alliance was founded by people who don't spend any money, except on alliance slots. Having said that, after the sentry nerf, I have not missed spotting a nerf so far. It's pretty obvious xf will be nerfed, etc. now certainly there will be a nerf regarding professor x, kingpin, scarlet witch and iron fist. So far so obvious. And of course we didn't spend any money on covers for them. I do have disagreements when they go overboard, but the characters they nerfed were not wrong. A lot of people are unhappy because they can't use their op characters anymore. They don't seem to realise thanks to the OP guys they are always using the same guys over and over again. Even now, when many four stars are severely weakened, they are using them from nostalgia. What a surprise.

My last bit will be on what kind of mpq do people want? Very fast pvps with OP guys blitzing through everything and limited rosters get screwed? It used to be 1300 to that last progression reward. Now it's 1000. I hope they lower it again because it's slower now. I for one am sick of seeing a wall of XF, invincible to weaker players. Or perhaps another kind of wall, where four stars trample everyone. This has changed drastically with kamala, cage etc. money is another wall. A shielding whale will always win. That's the old formula. Or people who buy covers always win. Well not everyone can afford it. Students don't have that kind of money.

I will conclude this with a very simple view. It should never be about pay to win. Frankly if you cant tell who will be nerfed next, and you feel you got ripped, then you simply have no sense of balance. Sentry nerf, xf nerf, you can see those a mile away. And you paid up? seriously? In that case I have several Nigerian friends who want to know you.

Dear Person Who Does Not Seem To Get It,

I am so happy that you get to play the game with the play style you prefer. However, other players may enjoy a style different from you. I particularly like that you state that you did like seeing so many X-Forces. At the time there were only two great 4*'s because the tier had just started. What other characters would expect to see? If they had waited, you would be seeing a variety of X-force, 4or, KP, PX, and HB with more on the way. However, the developers listened to the whining of players who lacked the understanding of how a new tier develops over time. BTW, instead of just facing X-Force battles where you might need 1 or 2 health packs after each fight (way up at the top end), players get those types of fights all the way from the beginning now. Congratulations, parity and balance realized.

Ironically, you have made the OP's point about nerfs even stronger. If you could see the character was going to be nerfed from miles away, should that not mean that the developers should not see this when these characters are released as well? You blame players for going after these characters, but players can only go after the characters the developers have decreed to be balanced to begin with.

You say CS would more than happy to assist OP. However, he stated that he has contacted them several times.

Personally, I like a lot of the changes in theory. The problem is the game is not improving for a lot of players. A lot of people want to spend less time playing, not more.

People talk about balance like it is this great and wondrous panacea. What they really mean is distributive justice. They want the newer players to be given lots of help with the veteran players continually given new obstacles in their way. A player who does not play as much or well or sinks resources into the game wants to be at the same level as those players you have played for over a year, play many more hours during the week, sunk money into the game, have developed strategies with various character compositions.

This "balance" actually results into two different but serious problems. (1) If veterans are playing to improve their roster and get rewarded for their time, money, and efforts, but the rug keeps getting pulled under them at every turn with greater frequency, eventually, even the most stubborn one will move on. (2) If other players continue to get great benefits from the status quo, why would they ever spend more resources, time, or effort? Eventually, the game will result in mediocrity and huge loss of revenue.

The truth is balance is not the key to making a game great. A game is great when there is a top of the mountain to get to, a challenge to stay there, and other people aspire to climb that mountain and are given the means to do so in a reasonable timeframe. A lot of changes like DPDQ, lowering iso leveling requirements, and lowering and changing of Progressives was making strides to that last part.

However, instead of sticking to the vision they have been implementing for so long, instead of letting people try climbing the mountain after these new tools were implemented, they decided to destroy the mountain, and in the process, destroy many of the fun elements of the game that made players feel like they were accomplishing anything.

Heartburn

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lemme just play DA for a bit here...


Starting with 6AP in 2-4 different colors is simply broken. There's just no denying it. It completely warps the balance of the game, giving players on offense an incredibly huge advantage. That's one match-4 away from a 4k nuke if you're running Hulkbuster, or the very real potential for a turn-one Surgical Strike or ROTP with Iron Fist's insane pink. Boosts are supposed to be for the occasional hard fight, not a tool to make matches against similarly-leveled opponents completely painless. It doesn't matter that it's the AI on the receiving end, it screws with the balance of powers in a way that simply isn't healthy.
Shield cooldowns unnecessary? Are you kidding? I know you've been around long enough to remember the Sentry/Hood meta. Shieldhopping was broken. The new system still allows for really high scores and getting all the rewards (one of the guys from Agent Archer put up a private guide on how to hit 1k without spending hero points while I was in there), but does not encourage shieldhopping. This seems considerably less broken. These changes made PvP better.

most of the other criticism i was fine with, boosting i thought was fine it burns resources to make the fight easier, but this is mostly because any damage you take stays with you after you finish the fight. if it didn't then i think boosting would be op. talk about advantage with defense teams full life each time you fight them, if it was the same amount of life they beat you with then you might have a point, especially when i have to fight them at half health, boosting just to keep it balanced.

as for shield cooldowns, shielding is the only realistic way to get the 4* award, unless you have one of the previous op characters combos to walk there in one bloody march. but i think your missing the fact that isn't that what you do in grindy games you find the combo that gets you the sought after reward so that you can consistently get it minimizing the cost to the player. the 4* reward is how you are suppose to get your 4* covers. they are taking every tool we make to try to get it and remove it or break it so we can't transition correctly. instead of costing 75 hp to shield each time it now cost more HP as you need to use the higher hp costing shields and more time why the 3hour shield doesn't have a 3 Hr cool down melts my brain.

i don't know about the guide because it is private, and im fine keeping that way so They won't be taking it away(at least it will take them longer to remove it), but im sure it is character dependent, as you need specific characters to make it (can't be done with any random maxed 3 *s), which makes just the same as any op combo.

this game is a big enough time sink as it is and the way they seem to want you to play is for 25 min every 2 hours which is not doable. since the 4* star nerfing every change has made this game more of a time sink. this is a mobile game, matches are not suppose to take long!!!! they are suppose to be quick, that is where all end game should be pushing the game towards. lower tier characters are slow, slowly build your roster making your win/time ratio increase, so that at the top you breeze through with minimal effort. the problem is everyone is fighting for the same rewards and the people on the top don't need it most of the time.

one thing they can do is to split the rewards by splitting events in regular(normal rewards) and hard mode( for greater rewards in progressive and final rewards ie. 3* reward for top 10 in sub event) for PVEs as they need alot more reward due to all the time commitment.

for PVP split into 1* fights for 2* rewards, 2* fights for 3* rewards and 3* fights for 4* rewards and 4* fights for 4*+ rewards ie. more points per match for ranking and cosmetic banners for top 10 winners with tracking during season. reduce the amount of points are lost during a defensive loss so that it is between 1-7 points each, and switch the points gained to be based on the team you are fighting(1/10 total lvl, they can balance it per character based on win% data if they want to), then they can remove shielding for all i care.

SnowcaTT

Totally agree with OP, there are many frustrations in game.

Just to pop in on boosts - up to two months ago, I basically never, ever boosted in this game. I figured I should be able to work my way up to a point where you don't need to boost, right?

The last couple of months - with MMR change to only hard teams, and health boosts so fights take longer, and multiple boosted characters, and the SAME boosted characters in PVE/PVP, and crazy insane PVE scaling - I've found that I'm spending any ISO earned in DDQ simply to be able to play with boots. Every day I'm easily using 1K+ ISO in boosts to try to keep my team a little faster, so they can stay a little more healthy, because you only have five health packs and I'm unwilling to spend HP for more.

I have no problem with no boosts (though it is easy to see how they unbalance play). I do have a problem that everything has become a crazy grind that eats away at health (as 3rd post mentioned). I'd love to see free health packs, infinite health packs, or characters recover at end of fights if they want this grind to continue. OR I'd love to see MMR that doesn't place you against only the most difficult teams, and scaling that doesn't keep me out of PVE entirely.

Unknown

Ok first the rant hat.

And you shift onto the 4 star characters only. I like how you think. Was sentry 4 star? is he not in many ways even more op? Is the top more diverse now or less after xf was nerfed? Luke cage, did they destroy him? Kamala? Are they 4stars too? you are taking only a few characters out of 40plus? And saying oh they are out to get vets. Vets already have an advantage. It's a lot of maxed characters. And seeing how long it will take to max one you still want more uneven distribution? How bout an auto lose function then? When newbies fight vets? If you are that offended by D3 why are you still playing?

Then the logic hat.
Argue that they are grossly incompetent. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I don't know where people get the assumption that they do extensive testing or they are very well organized. I have not seen any proof of that since day 1. Argue that either a) they want to hoard more money for themselves and refuse to hire more testers, or b) they should not release so many characters when obviously they can't even cope with testing. What I will say is that they got many characters right off the bat without nerfing. I honestly think sentiments will be better if they simply did not push out 4 stars at all.it has been done more bad than good imho



That vets have some entitlement rights, frankly that is just rubbish. We already have a huge head start. Alliance mates are sitting on a huge pile of HP and ISO. Remember app users are not expected to stay for years. It's a fickle place. So people are expected to leave anyway. To talk of seniority here is just amusing

Unknown

Before 4Thor was nerfed, it was conceivable that both X-Force and 4Thor were just good top tier 4*. Even though people called for XForce nerfs, he wasn't undefeatable, he wasn't required for shield hops (though having him certainly helped), and he wasn't Sentry-level meta breaking. It really depended on where Demiurge decided the game should go. However, after more 4* came out including the fairly strong Prof X, and no one ditched the XThor combo, avoiding nerfs became less and less likely. The hopeful thought, "They made us work 3 full seasons and countless PVPs to get these Thor covers, they wouldn't just nerf her right?" We were wrong.

Once 4Thor was overnerfed, everyone pretty much knew the XForce nerf was coming. Will even mentioned it in the Thor nerf video, XForce is much above the power-curve.

Balance would be where every character is usable at least in some situations, where one character (at the same rarity level) is better than the other under some conditions, but worse under others. Balance is 'a' key to making a game good, otherwise the game stagnates with people using the same 2-3 characters every round. Balance makes it so the 'mountain' is neither too low, nor too high, and pushing someone off the top has both risk and reward. I don't believe that Balance means over-nerfing the old hotness to make way for the new hotness, using 'balance' as a justification. We all know that's not balance.

Metaphorically, I'd say in PVP they stuck us in a jagged valley to start, as opposed to a gentle slope that's easy to climb up. Purposefully losing 3-6 matches to start every PVP isn't fun.

Ducky

theapropos wrote:

What I will say is that they got many characters right off the bat without nerfing.

You're joking right?

Out of the 39 3*s currently in the game, 17 of them have been changed after release that I can think of off the top of my head. That's nearly 50%!

Out of the 10 4*s that have been released, 4 have been rebalanced since their release and one has been altered prior to release. Two of the 4 that have been rebalanced have been rebalanced TWICE.

Malcrof

DuckyV wrote:

theapropos wrote:

What I will say is that they got many characters right off the bat without nerfing.

You're joking right?

Out of the 39 3*s currently in the game, 17 of them have been changed after release that I can think of off the top of my head. That's nearly 50%!

Out of the 10 4*s that have been released, 4 have been rebalanced since their release and one has been altered prior to release. Two of the 4 that have been rebalanced have been rebalanced TWICE.

The 3* and 4* total is only 49? How are people complaining about the price of slot 100? Curiosity question...

Also, is there a list?

Edit, found it myself viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11111

Apparently the only 4* or 3* i don't have in my collection (even though some are 1 or 2 covers) is Devil Dino.

So i guess i can get some spots for 1 or 2*'s now.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

The 3* and 4* total is only 49? How are people complaining about the price of slot 100? Curiosity question...

They keep 1s and 2s, and/or they keep multiple builds of 3s and 4s

simonsez

DuckyV wrote:

You're joking right?

Out of the 39 3*s currently in the game, 17 of them have been changed after release that I can think of off the top of my head. That's nearly 50%!

Stephen Curry WISHES he could go 22 for 39 on 3's...

SnowcaTT

Malcrof wrote:

The 3* and 4* total is only 49? How are people complaining about the price of slot 100? Curiosity question...

Also, is there a list?

Edit, found it myself http://www.d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11111

Apparently the only 4* or 3* i don't have in my collection (even though some are 1 or 2 covers) is Devil Dino.

So i guess i can get some spots for 1 or 2*'s now.

The 61st roster spot costs 800 HP, I haven't bought up to 65 since I stopped at that point. It takes me about two weeks to get 800 HP; they released five characters in six weeks I think it was?

I'm pretty sure if you have one of each character the roster spots cost 900HP each now. It's gotten ridiculous just to maintain all the 3*/4*, that's why people are complaining that they now have to add (or keep) 14 more roster slots for the 2*'s.

A 2* Bullseye for 900 HP? I'd rather just skip the PVE event, at this point you can almost buy the 3* covers for the price it costs you to compete for them in the PVE's.

Unknown

Hello,

Just wanted to say that I am frustrated as well. I will not bore you with all the detailes as they have already been explained in this post. I want to add that I have been wanting to spend money on a couple of characters (IF, Luke), but can't bring myself to do it. I honestly think that if they keep using frustration as a tactic for us to spend money it will only make our decision not to that much easier. Because the better our roster is the more difficult it seems to compete!

I still play in hopes that someday they will get their act together... I loved this game since its launch.

BTW I made sure I rated 1 star for their lack of compensation during the Ultron event mess up.

Unknown

DuckyV wrote:

theapropos wrote:

What I will say is that they got many characters right off the bat without nerfing.

You're joking right?

Out of the 39 3*s currently in the game, 17 of them have been changed after release that I can think of off the top of my head. That's nearly 50%!

Out of the 10 4*s that have been released, 4 have been rebalanced since their release and one has been altered prior to release. Two of the 4 that have been rebalanced have been rebalanced TWICE.

I said many not most or nearly all. But why are you still here? There's no half in or half out. You can't say, oh they're ****. And then continue to play. That just doesn't make sense.

Unknown

theapropos wrote:

I said many not most or nearly all. But why are you still here? There's no half in or half out. You can't say, oh they're tinykitty. And then continue to play. That just doesn't make sense.

You can still enjoy the game but not like the direction it is going. Life isn't a series of binary choices.

mohio

In my eyes the problem is that every individual change adds up to a whole that is a longer match and more frustrating game experience.

Boost change - makes total sense. +6 to any one color means they can basically never make a powerful 6 cost ability. Kingpin/SW could basically start with one opponent downed already with 6black and that free countdown. However most people only used +3 simply to save health and in many instances +2 is a big difference so games go longer, you take more damage.

Weekly boosted characters - encourages roster diversity. The more leveled 3* you have the better off you will be. Makes sense, but these boosted guys have tons of health, so longer matches, you take more damage, use more health packs. Also to speak to game variety, this does provide a weekly variety, but each PvP during the week feels roughly the same. You see the same maxed guys over and over and over. How many people saw endless teams of cmags/blade this past PvP? And how many ran the same team cause they had it too? Is this actually fun?

MMR changes - I don't think anyone likes these so I can't imagine they're done tweaking it, but suffice to say seeing max teams from the start is not making the game faster or any easier on your health packs. To tie into the previous point, I used to see tons of different teams on my climb to 750-ish, and since they were generally under leveled I could play a pet team or try out different team comps during my climb (or just stick to true healers to save health packs), which afforded me the variety I desire in this game. I didn't mind that the top tier was mostly all the same teams cause that's where the big boys (just a saying, no offense to our awesome female community) duke it out for the top progression and placement rewards. You should have to use the best of the best at that point. Additionally, now that you can be hit by guys at 100 while you're at 600, you basically have to use your A team from the very start. And that means using only the buffed characters or else you might as well put a bagman-esque kick me sign on. That full stable of 166s won't be super useful when you almost have to be bringing 240 or above (support chars for an op 240 might be an exception but they are almost all speed bumps at best for the other 240s). In a way this is limiting our options in PvP and making each individual event pretty monotonous and frankly a bit boring.

Have I missed other changes recently? Iso leveling change was nice but overdue. We had so many new useful characters and no way to level them to useful levels in a reasonable amount of time without some intense amount of LR grinding. Speaking of LR grinding the MMR changes have made those borderline unplayable for me. Rewards are nowhere near worth the effort and health pack usage needed. DDQ is awesome, kudos to devs. Ultron event was fun but kind of a disaster, it's been talked into the ground so no need to rehash here.

GrumpySmurf1002

DuckyV wrote:

Out of the 10 4*s that have been released, 4 have been rebalanced since their release and one has been altered prior to release.

I would all but guarantee that Prof X is not the only 4* that was altered prior to release. Ditto 3* characters.

The difference between him (and QS for that matter) and previous characters is that they didn't give us pre-release spoilers that specifically said they still might change.

The fallout from this perception of 'nerfing before release' is why I doubt we'll see another spoiler again.

Unknown

MarCr wrote:

theapropos wrote:

I said many not most or nearly all. But why are you still here? There's no half in or half out. You can't say, oh they're tinykitty. And then continue to play. That just doesn't make sense.

You can still enjoy the game but not like the direction it is going. Life isn't a series of binary choices.

But it shouldn't be spent in hypocrisy either. There are people who have quit, and they gave a long and lengthy explanation. I might not agree with all they are saying. But they are taking a stand on principle. And I respect that. This isn't work. You don't have to put up with things you dislike. Even the rage quitters had a line in the sand

DrStrange-616

theapropos wrote:

MarCr wrote:

theapropos wrote:

I said many not most or nearly all. But why are you still here? There's no half in or half out. You can't say, oh they're tinykitty. And then continue to play. That just doesn't make sense.

You can still enjoy the game but not like the direction it is going. Life isn't a series of binary choices.

But it shouldn't be spent in hypocrisy either. There are people who have quit, and they gave a long and lengthy explanation. I might not agree with all they are saying. But they are taking a stand on principle. And I respect that. This isn't work. You don't have to put up with things you dislike. Even the rage quitters had a line in the sand

No two people's line in the sand will be the same and it's not up to you decide where it is for other people.

Unknown

I really dislike it when people say "if you don't like it then you oh should just quit". What if we want to stick around and try to make the game better? Did anyone say "if you don't like slavery you can just leave" and then expect everyone to just keep things the way they are without trying to improve things?
Sorry for the hyperbole and I'm not in any way suggesting that MMR changes are as bad as slavery so I hope it doesn't come off that way.

Buret0

Considering Surgical Strike can one shot when intentionally paired with the right board colour manipulation, I really am not on board with the consensus that XF was "over" nerfed. Considering how good he can still be with the right teammates, I bet people are kicking themselves who cashed in on the sale.