Was it your plan to alienate new/casual players even more?

Pylgrim

ShionSinX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Think about the rewards. Do you think 2* rosters should be able to get top 5 in PVP allowing them four 3* characters? D3 doesn't believe they should, that is why PVP is properly scaled based on appropriate prizes for a roster. It ensures progress isn't too easy/fast.

It's the same for this event, lower end rosters should not be entitled to the six 3*s. Instead they will get the lower end of 2ish, which is appropriate for the growth of their rosters.

Yes, I think that a roster of 94s should have a shot at it. With more work of course, getting wiped sometimes, but doable.

Im not going to lose anything, but they would be getting. Its not like when I have to knock down people on the ranks, be it by taking their points or just bypassing their scores, to reach my own PvP/PvE rewards. Nodoby would lose anything, at all, if more people could get those prizes.

You keep missing the point of the above posters and I think it's because you are doing the same thing that you accuse them of not doing: putting yourself in their shoes. Take a minute to think about yourself a few months in the future. After lots of hard work and consistency, you have now a wide roster with lots of 166s and now you are a "vet". Maybe one or two decently levelled 4*s. You have amassed a lot of experience and deep understanding of the characters roles and interactions. Even in spite of that, you realise that due to scaling, you don't really have a much easier time than you had back in early transition. What is then, the reward for your efforts? A higher tier of prizes. After the same amount of effort and hardship you are encountering now, you'll walk out with better prizes... and that's fair enough because the prizes that you used to get as an earlier transitioner are now obsolete for you.

Can you see the sense of progression in the whole process? Wouldn't you think it unfair if everybody then earned the same prizes, likely meaning that the new rookies will have an easier and speedier transition than you had? Because that's what is happening already. You weren't there back when we were transitioners. You don't know how much harder it was, how many less privileges and rookie-helping features we had. Seeing you complain about how you are not getting YET another benefit that trivialises the effort, time and money that others have put in the game is insulting.

Unknown

An event that requires persistent manpower in a game that isn't exactly a huge game nor have any kind of in game recruiting system is a bad idea. If you ever ran a guild you'll know that the guy who always stands in fire but still shows up every day is generally more useful than the MMORPG superstar who you have no idea what day or raid he feels like to show up on because he has a life (TM), and while you can carry guys who stand in fire or hope they will momentarily elevate their game to a level (perhaps with a generous amount of reminder that FIRE IS BAD), you can't exactly do that in MPQ. And if you're counting on a 'stand in fire' guy to pull his weight in the Ultron event you better have some sacrifices ready to the scaling god. This event seems to be the classical 'hardcore raiding' mistake and just assumes you can recruit better or whatever. There isn't exactly a deep pool of talents for MPQ out there, and at some point you'll have to be digging into the 'stand in fire' guys but it's much harder to carry those guys in MPQ than a raid because the overwhelming emphasis is on manpower in this event. They should at least switch the first alliance reward with the top progression reward to ensure that you can get all your covers if you're good enough personally.

For future iterations there should be a bigger emphasis on the boss battle in the quality of the victory not the quantity. The boss battle should be weighted such that a single person with godmode can easily get all the progression rewards by himself, and the reason why you need an alliance is because you can't have godmode so you'd need more guys to get more shots at it. Currently a single person with godmode would not come anywhere close to hitting all alliance rewards and that just seems to defy the concept of a 'boss' battle. A single godmode person should always easily outperform any number of normal players on a difficult encounter. It'll probably take some juggling to get the right balance between manpower and individual brilliance but if individual godmode can't win this event, that just seems to trivialize individual accomplishment way too much.

Dauthi

Pylgrim wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Think about the rewards. Do you think 2* rosters should be able to get top 5 in PVP allowing them four 3* characters? D3 doesn't believe they should, that is why PVP is properly scaled based on appropriate prizes for a roster. It ensures progress isn't too easy/fast.

It's the same for this event, lower end rosters should not be entitled to the six 3*s. Instead they will get the lower end of 2ish, which is appropriate for the growth of their rosters.

Yes, I think that a roster of 94s should have a shot at it. With more work of course, getting wiped sometimes, but doable.

Im not going to lose anything, but they would be getting. Its not like when I have to knock down people on the ranks, be it by taking their points or just bypassing their scores, to reach my own PvP/PvE rewards. Nodoby would lose anything, at all, if more people could get those prizes.

Can you see the sense of progression in the whole process? Wouldn't you think it unfair if everybody then earned the same prizes, likely meaning that the new rookies will have an easier and speedier transition than you had? Because that's what is happening already. You weren't there back when we were transitioners. You don't know how much harder it was, how many less privileges and rookie-helping features we had. Seeing you complain about how you are not getting YET another benefit that trivialises the effort, time and money that others have put in the game is insulting.

I don't think past progress should really be worried about, we are here now and already ahead of newbie rosters. What is important is current progress between veterans and new players. It does bring up a good point though, how progress should be guaged.

ShionSinX -

Old character prize - new player progresses, older player does not. (rinse repeat over several weeks)
New character prize - new player achieves the same amount of covers as the veteran, granting equal progress between the two.

The progress in this scenario would be 0 for the veterans. Now if your progress is being siphoned dry as you complete your roster, why would you stick around? Offering new characters in large quantities to the veterans grants progress, and keeps players around. You will definitely appreciate it when you hit veteran status.

Unknown

But man, most of the playerbase do not have a chance to get 3*s, be new or old, on PvE and PvP events. Even if EVERYONE got a 111 QS and 111 SW, about less than a tenth will be able to get more covers on the next events.

Somone who got T2 on QS PvE and had a T100 alliance started with 5 covers right away, not thinking about the luckers who got him from tokens. Then next PvE he was the top progression reward, and on PvP they could get another 4 covers (3 from T5 and one from alliance T100). Now they have a 9/13 QS and will be grabbing another 3 from Ultron, being one cover from max in a short period of time after the release.

And those who cant reach the T150 on PvE? AvU would be a good chance to have at least a 100 QS if they could reach 500k progression. Even if they get a 111 from 1kk, would still be an unusable, weak QS (not gonna joke about QS being weak by itself).

I dont see how those who have a 12/13 QS just from rewards and progressions would be compared to 111 hard work QSs.

EDIT: oh, and theres the next AvU starting after this one, that will be using SW and maybe QS too to get Hulkbuster. How many people can get reliably 4*s to make a new one usable in a short time? 1%? Less than that?

Pylgrim

ShionSinX wrote:

But man, most of the playerbase do not have a chance to get 3*s, be new or old, on PvE and PvP events. Even if EVERYONE got a 111 QS and 111 SW, about less than a tenth will be able to get more covers on the next events.

Somone who got T2 on QS PvE and had a T100 alliance started with 5 covers right away, not thinking about the luckers who got him from tokens. Then next PvE he was the top progression reward, and on PvP they could get another 4 covers (3 from T5 and one from alliance T100). Now they have a 9/13 QS and will be grabbing another 3 from Ultron, being one cover from max in a short period of time after the release.

And those who cant reach the T150 on PvE? AvU would be a good chance to have at least a 100 QS if they could reach 500k progression. Even if they get a 111 from 1kk, would still be an unusable, weak QS (not gonna joke about QS being weak by itself).

I dont see how those who have a 12/13 QS just from rewards and progressions would be compared to 111 hard work QSs.

See, this shows the lack of perspective you have from your bottom-of-the-hill point of view:

-Beginners that cannot top 150 PVP or place well in an event like this do NOT need and shouldn't want the new 3* or 4* awarded. That'd be a wasteful expenditure of HP (for the roster slot) for a character that will remain poorly covered and levelled for months. Beginners need to forget about that and focus on getting and maxing the good 2*s that will carry them into transition.

-Transitioners who can place or progress well enough to get 1-3 covers of a new character do want to keep them as it will eventually start accumulating covers (which is super easy now thanks to DDQ) but they shouldn't stress about getting many more soon. They have already a few more covers of older 3*s (especially the ones awarded in Daily Rewards) so they should focus in getting them up to shape.

-Veterans already have most of their roster well levelled up and are getting enormous amounts of ISO every day. They WANT, NEED and CAN get lots of covers of the new characters as that's what is keeping the game alive and exciting for them.

Different needs, different capabilities, different rewards. MPQ may still have several rough edges but the awarding scheme is not one of them (except maybe 4*s being awarded only to top 50 in PVE).

Unknown

If new characters werent needed for the next PvE there would be no problem on new players not getting it. But PvE is where they can start building up their rosters, so not having an essential (like all new characters are on the PvE right after) is a huge dent until the next chance appears. Without even one cover they cant even do DDQ.

Its not a waste of slot having a 1 cover character when hes needed as essential on the PvE after, so early transitioners will get another cover, that will be used as essential on the PvE after, and after... you cant miss the chance on one because it makes much harder, sometimes impossible when its a 4* for T50.

Arondite

ShionSinX wrote:

If new characters werent needed for the next PvE there would be no problem on new players not getting it. But PvE is where they can start building up their rosters, so not having an essential (like all new characters are on the PvE right after) is a huge dent until the next chance appears. Without even one cover they cant even do DDQ.

Its not a waste of slot having a 1 cover character when hes needed as essential on the PvE after, so early transitioners will get another cover, that will be used as essential on the PvE after, and after... you cant miss the chance on one because it makes much harder, sometimes impossible when its a 4* for T50.

Man you clearly have no idea how the game works.

-Brand new players don't need 3 Star heroes. They need to finish out their 1 Star Roster first, then start on 2 Star Heroes. Not to mention baby brackets exist for both PvE and PvP, giving really early players their first 3 or 4 Star Hero essentially for free (if they have any experience with this type of game). You don't need Essential heroes when the game is still filtering you into Baby Brackets, which is a substantial amount of time.

-DDQ as a whole isn't for brand new players...it's for Late Transitioners. But you still neglect tiering - for rookies there's 500 ISO, which is significant for them. For 2 Star players, there's a Taco and 1500 ISO, which again, is significant for that level. Late Transitioners get plenty of ISO 2 Tacos and a cover, again, a significant sum. But the most important thing to note is that all of these tiers give their respective players something of value without kickstarting them into a whole new tier too suddenly. The point of an RPG is to progress, but to do so at a pace that doesn't render actual gameplay trivial.

-Your point about PvE is actually valid (to a degree). To an Early Transitioner, falling short on a PvE can be a fatal blow as that player is trying to reach 3 Star land and needs to catch all the rewards he/she can to do so, and in the Early Transition it's not entirely likely that you'll have the next essentials without winning them in the current event. However, it's important to note that ; only this group of players is strongly impacted, as they're the only ones who need only 3 stars to progress while still being heavily impacted by not grabbing the next essential in the current event (late transitioners should most likely have most upcoming essentials even if they fail to grab them in current events, save new releases).

-4 Star releases are really a non-issue. A single 4 Star cover for a 1 star, 2 star, early transitioner or late transitioner is non-progress. If you are winning PvP event's with 1000+ points regularly it's gonna take you a long time to complete a single 4 Star Hero, and that's clearly intended to be the reward for the best of the best. If you're not playing at that level, 4 Star Covers are just unusable slot-hogs.

Unknown

Imagine applying to work in a lab as a researcher to cure cancer. Would the PHD be upset that he lost to a high school graduate who clearly isn't qualified? I know I would.

In due course the high school grad can complete his bachelors, work on his masters and finish his thesis. But no, I do not agree he should get the job now.

Unknown

hexad_2808 wrote:

Imagine applying to work in a lab as a researcher to cure cancer. Would the PHD be upset that he lost to a high school graduate who clearly isn't qualified? I know I would.

In due course the high school grad can complete his bachelors, work on his masters and finish his thesis. But no, I do not agree he should get the job now.

Don't forget that with the next patch...that High School student is going to be able to earn the same Ph.D. from the same university as the established candidate, except that it will cost them about 30% less.

marc

madsalad

My only suggestion would have been giving a SW cover around node 4 or 5 on Ultron PRIME. Thay way, at least even some low-tier folks are getting a chance to get a SW cover for the node requirements come Round 2. Having her on the last 3 nodes pretty much shuts out rookie alliances. Otherwise, I'm liking the event just fine.

Cymmina

Arondite wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

How about not excluding 95% of the playerbase on such a big event?

95% of players are not excluded - players are just limited to different tiers of rewards based on what they as an individual and their alliance as a group are able to accomplish. Newbies will probably earn a couple of standard tokens and an Ultron Prize pack or two. 2 star players will probably see a few Prize packs, possibly a 3 Star if they are dedicated and found a dedicated alliance to partner with. Transitioners will pick up a sizeable number of prize packs, some HP, and some newer 3 star covers. 4 star players will get a sizeable amount of HP, sizeable prize packs and 1 of each power for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.

Not only is this not a problem, this is ideal prize tiering. Everyone is able to pull something useful out of this event for their individual tier of play if they
- Put in an appropriate time investment
- Have found an alliance with similar strength and time investment(s)
- Play rather than whine on the forums about how they can't win the maximum prizes while having a roster that reflects a minimal time/monetary investment

There is one piece of information you seem to keep glossing over and ignoring, yet it's the most relevant and important one - there is no reason all players should reap the same rewards as all other players if said rewards are top-end. There is no reason a vet and a rookie should get the same thing for the same amount of play when one of the two has an end-game roster. What RPG are you playing where End-Game rewards are available to rookies? I don't know about the games you're coming off of, but when I play Destiny, I had to hit level 20 before I could win End Game gear and participate in Raids, etc. I don't hear level 5 players there complaining they can't win Raid Gear from the Vault of Glass/Crota's End, and they can't even try to run those events without having a substantial time investment prior to the attempt. I'm not talking about they're gated out by difficulty, I'm talking about the game doesn't even let you load it up.

You're barking up the wrong tree, rookie. Just accept the 20+ tokens you're gonna get and call it a day.

I'm not a rookie, but I'm getting screwed over anyway.

This event only rewards players who are in top tier alliances. You know, the alliances that already have no problem hitting the top 100. It completely screws over mid/high end players who aren't in a top tier alliance. I'm a top performer in my alliance and I'm expecting to make it to the 2nd to last progression award on Ultron. The reward for my efforts? Squat. Congratulations for wasting the last 4.5 days!

Oh sure, I could have swapped alliances. I could have gone through the effort of applying for an alliance that had a shot of at least getting to round 7 (unlocking the 6th Ultron Prime node). But there wasn't enough advance notice, now was there? Information about how the event was going to work wasn't released until about 24 hours before the event started. Switching alliances right before a big event like this is a huge risk: how do I know if I'm any better off than where I was?

If this had been a normal PvE event, I would have been able to guarantee 2 SW covers. Want to take a wild guess as to what kind of event I prefer?

Arondite

Cymmina wrote:

Arondite wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

How about not excluding 95% of the playerbase on such a big event?

95% of players are not excluded - players are just limited to different tiers of rewards based on what they as an individual and their alliance as a group are able to accomplish. Newbies will probably earn a couple of standard tokens and an Ultron Prize pack or two. 2 star players will probably see a few Prize packs, possibly a 3 Star if they are dedicated and found a dedicated alliance to partner with. Transitioners will pick up a sizeable number of prize packs, some HP, and some newer 3 star covers. 4 star players will get a sizeable amount of HP, sizeable prize packs and 1 of each power for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.

Not only is this not a problem, this is ideal prize tiering. Everyone is able to pull something useful out of this event for their individual tier of play if they
- Put in an appropriate time investment
- Have found an alliance with similar strength and time investment(s)
- Play rather than whine on the forums about how they can't win the maximum prizes while having a roster that reflects a minimal time/monetary investment

There is one piece of information you seem to keep glossing over and ignoring, yet it's the most relevant and important one - there is no reason all players should reap the same rewards as all other players if said rewards are top-end. There is no reason a vet and a rookie should get the same thing for the same amount of play when one of the two has an end-game roster. What RPG are you playing where End-Game rewards are available to rookies? I don't know about the games you're coming off of, but when I play Destiny, I had to hit level 20 before I could win End Game gear and participate in Raids, etc. I don't hear level 5 players there complaining they can't win Raid Gear from the Vault of Glass/Crota's End, and they can't even try to run those events without having a substantial time investment prior to the attempt. I'm not talking about they're gated out by difficulty, I'm talking about the game doesn't even let you load it up.

You're barking up the wrong tree, rookie. Just accept the 20+ tokens you're gonna get and call it a day.

I'm not a rookie, but I'm getting screwed over anyway.

This event only rewards players who are in top tier alliances. You know, the alliances that already have no problem hitting the top 100. It completely screws over mid/high end players who aren't in a top tier alliance. I'm a top performer in my alliance and I'm expecting to make it to the 2nd to last progression award on Ultron. The reward for my efforts? Squat. Congratulations for wasting the last 4.5 days!

Oh sure, I could have swapped alliances. I could have gone through the effort of applying for an alliance that had a shot of at least getting to round 7 (unlocking the 6th Ultron Prime node). But there wasn't enough advance notice, now was there? Information about how the event was going to work wasn't released until about 24 hours before the event started. Switching alliances right before a big event like this is a huge risk: how do I know if I'm any better off than where I was?

If this had been a normal PvE event, I would have been able to guarantee 2 SW covers. Want to take a wild guess as to what kind of event I prefer?

All valid concerns, but I must ask - why are you saying that to me? I'm not saying the structure of the event was great or defensible, I'm ONLY speaking against the plea to make this (and other events) easier for rookies to grab prizes in.

Also, sounds to me like you need a new alliance in general. Would solve problems like this and others.

Unknown

ShionSinX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Think about the rewards. Do you think 2* rosters should be able to get top 5 in PVP allowing them four 3* characters? D3 doesn't believe they should, that is why PVP is properly scaled based on appropriate prizes for a roster. It ensures progress isn't too easy/fast.

It's the same for this event, lower end rosters should not be entitled to the six 3*s. Instead they will get the lower end of 2ish, which is appropriate for the growth of their rosters.

Yes, I think that a roster of 94s should have a shot at it. With more work of course, getting wiped sometimes, but doable.

Im not going to lose anything, but they would be getting. Its not like when I have to knock down people on the ranks, be it by taking their points or just bypassing their scores, to reach my own PvP/PvE rewards. Nodoby would lose anything, at all, if more people could get those prizes.

I have roster of 94 2* and I'm having a blast at this event. My 2* Cap America is an MVP superstar here. I already got 1 QS progression cover. My alliance is currently chipping round 6 at 1 mil so with some luck we'll take it down by tomorrow night and I'll have 1 SW. And I'll be happy with that 'cause it will allow me to play essentials in the second part. I'm not contemplating beating lvl 8 but it's already quite good. Besides prize tokens were like a golden rain. I got a bunch of 3*s out of these token pulls

Virus_Type_V

Maybe what they could of done (assuming there is/was a lot of new people coming to check out the game) is have a beginner event (alongside) and only new players under 60 days of the daily resupply can take part…

Make it easy but challenging. Shower them with standard packs and some hp for roster spots. Reward them with a quick silver and a scarlet witch cover in the end.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Also, sounds to me like you need a new alliance in general. Would solve problems like this and others.

This part of the event I somewhat dislike. I'd like to be able to play in a small alliance with real life friends and still get something out of events like this. Unfortunately, you have to either merc yourself or play at least in a semi-casual alliance to get anything out of it. Demiurge does not reward people for being filthy casuals.

Also, it's hard for early forum goers to not covet a 3* cover in every event particularly when no one here talks about the 2* covers and iso. I'm not saying they automatically deserve it, but it's at least understandable.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Also, sounds to me like you need a new alliance in general. Would solve problems like this and others.

This part of the event I somewhat dislike. I'd like to be able to play in a small alliance with real life friends and still get something out of events like this. Unfortunately, you have to either merc yourself or play at least in a semi-casual alliance to get anything out of it. Demiurge does not reward people for being filthy casuals.

Also, it's hard for early forum goers to not covet a 3* cover in every event particularly when no one here talks about the 2* covers and iso. I'm not saying they automatically deserve it, but it's at least understandable.

People talk about best teams for DDQ and OBW, MNMag, CStorm come up a lot. All 2* characters and that team absolutely wrecks the final node of DDQ.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Also, sounds to me like you need a new alliance in general. Would solve problems like this and others.

This part of the event I somewhat dislike. I'd like to be able to play in a small alliance with real life friends and still get something out of events like this. Unfortunately, you have to either merc yourself or play at least in a semi-casual alliance to get anything out of it. Demiurge does not reward people for being filthy casuals.

Also, it's hard for early forum goers to not covet a 3* cover in every event particularly when no one here talks about the 2* covers and iso. I'm not saying they automatically deserve it, but it's at least understandable.

I don't think it's a casual versus hardcore but that D3 way overvalues manpower. Suppose I have 3 guys all with a D3 approved instant win hack but all I have are these 3 guys. We wouldn't be able to clear round 6 in all likelihood even though all we're doing is hitting 'fight' and instantly win. In terms of our performance there's no way any legitimate player can possibly match our D3 approved hacks but this 3 man team of hacks would lose to most 20 average individuals quite easily. I can't think of any competitive event where arbitrary individual excellence can still lose to teamwork. For example if I recruited Hulk to be my running back, I'm pretty sure me plus him can easily beat any NFL team even though there are only 2 guys on our team and nobody should be very surprised of that outcome.

slidecage

What is sad is that i loved the event when it first started. My teams were up to level 60 and could beat them easy. Now the teams are up to level 120 (where my max is 88) and i can not even beat them with them pulling out swarm or power this or that ever other move and hitting for 2 k at once,

what is worse is with this and a PVE running what with not that big of a team pushes me farer behind meaning no reason to play the PVE now since people who had bigger teams has force the AI so high even on the Normal PVE its not fun.

PVP sucks since they removed seed teams and they screwed everyone over friday but crashing the servers and not allowing people with PVP and PVE that ended at 3 or 7pm a chance to replay it

Depending on how the next so called event runs it might be the final straw for me cause this game is no longer fun

Wonko33

Maybe not all events are for everybody

Just like the 1st gauntlet- I could barely get out of the second round
The next one I finished with a better roster

Newbies complain, we can't hit 1000 point or be top 25 in PvP well you don't have the roster yet...

This game has done nothing but improve the 2-3 star transition for the last few months, but now we get an event more for better rosters and people freak out

get a few nodes in with what you got- that's what I did with my phone limited roster, chance at tokens are great and there are good pulls - hit your plateau and plays something else. Your roster will get better over time- you will move up and have something to aspire to, if everyone gets everything right off the bat why would you even try to get better characters?

Maybe they should have been more clear that if you are a newbie then you should not team up with a team of vets, they will escalate Ultron too fast and there will be nothing you can do.

I got a ton of 3* maxed out but they nerfed all the 4* , it's no fun when you have no one you are trying to get anymore and no game progression is available.

Unknown

I think my biggest complaint is that not everyone in a roster will be able to reach final progression even if they are all dedicated to doing so. Let's say you have the roster to get to the end, and so do your teammates, ultron can only take so much damage. It kind of sucks that I'm teaching against my team while cooperating. They should've just made each round last 1day. Like thunder mountain in sentry event, there is a progression reward, and make it in each days event. I think this was designed to cut off the event snipers.