**** Iron Man (Hulkbuster) ****

Phaserhawk

poomermon wrote:

He also has 17810 health at max level. Red seems op. Who needs 4hor anymore?

Umm, I do...

If you fire red off at the start it's only 5670 dmg, that's not game breaking, and that's his only dmg skill. Thor has 2 plus she can lock a guy down for 3 turns. If you wanted to 1 shot say Groot you would need to have 17 AP. 4hor can probably accelerate to that much more dmg quicker

notamutant

Phaserhawk wrote:

Here's a preview, these are maxed out 270 stats
4*

Repulsor Punch 9
Lvl 5--Iron Man pours his energy reserves into his next punch, using repulsors in his elbow for extra force. Depletes his team's Red AP, dealing 630 dmage for each

Overdrive 11
Lvl 3--Tony recklessly diverts power from his heart's Arc Reactor to give his suit more firepower. Deals 1541 Damage to Iron Man, but gains 6 Red AP and creates 2 yellow strike tiles of strength 183
Lvl4--creates 7 Red AP and strike tiles with strength 241

Hulk-Proof 9
Lvl 5--The Hulkbuster suit deploys gas grenades and powers up shielding, ready for incoming damage. Converts 7 basic green tiles to Red and creates 3 blue Protect tiles of strength 72

Looks to be good. 5 red seems mandatory since, well nothing else does damage. 5/5/3 looks to be most offensive, 5/3/5 most defensive. Depending on Lvl 5 Black, if that creates 9 red AP I think 5/5/3 will be the way to go, but depending on what 3 blue is may make me go the other way.

Basically take damage and 2 more AP but guarentee your red, or go the safer, cheaper route via blue which is just Dr.Doom's but converting green to red instead of blue to black which is going to give you a lower return more than likely than black, but the better thing about this is that you aren't collecting the same color to turn

Here is Dr. Doom's probability's for Technopathic Strike
Level 2: Transforms 7 tiles.
robability of a cascade occurring: 0.575122
Average tiles destroyed: 5.109416
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLUE: 0.10473 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 0.391226 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.391518 tiles destroyed
RED: 0.390358 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 0.386444 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 0.389048 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 3.056092 tiles destroyed

So you would roughly generate 3.05 red tiles with another 2 tiles being random, so this on average will be a 9 AP for 5 AP conversion.

Where did you get this information? Anyhow, I feel like we have this conversation everywhere now, but with Prof X, Cyclops, and Hulkbuster, this is OP. Save up blue and yellow, create multiple match 5 reds with Hulk blue and Cyclops yellow, and kill half the team with Master Plan. You now have an extra 8 or so red AP from Master Plan, plus the match AP you got from using the blue and yellow at the same time. Easily get 14k damage out of Hulk red, after 8k damage from Prof X. If you somehow haven't killed everyone yet, Prof X boosts the defense tiles.

Phaserhawk

notamutant wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Here's a preview, these are maxed out 270 stats
4*

Repulsor Punch 9
Lvl 5--Iron Man pours his energy reserves into his next punch, using repulsors in his elbow for extra force. Depletes his team's Red AP, dealing 630 dmage for each

Overdrive 11
Lvl 3--Tony recklessly diverts power from his heart's Arc Reactor to give his suit more firepower. Deals 1541 Damage to Iron Man, but gains 6 Red AP and creates 2 yellow strike tiles of strength 183
Lvl4--creates 7 Red AP and strike tiles with strength 241

Hulk-Proof 9
Lvl 5--The Hulkbuster suit deploys gas grenades and powers up shielding, ready for incoming damage. Converts 7 basic green tiles to Red and creates 3 blue Protect tiles of strength 72

Looks to be good. 5 red seems mandatory since, well nothing else does damage. 5/5/3 looks to be most offensive, 5/3/5 most defensive. Depending on Lvl 5 Black, if that creates 9 red AP I think 5/5/3 will be the way to go, but depending on what 3 blue is may make me go the other way.

Basically take damage and 2 more AP but guarentee your red, or go the safer, cheaper route via blue which is just Dr.Doom's but converting green to red instead of blue to black which is going to give you a lower return more than likely than black, but the better thing about this is that you aren't collecting the same color to turn

Here is Dr. Doom's probability's for Technopathic Strike
Level 2: Transforms 7 tiles.
robability of a cascade occurring: 0.575122
Average tiles destroyed: 5.109416
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLUE: 0.10473 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 0.391226 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.391518 tiles destroyed
RED: 0.390358 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 0.386444 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 0.389048 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 3.056092 tiles destroyed

So you would roughly generate 3.05 red tiles with another 2 tiles being random, so this on average will be a 9 AP for 5 AP conversion.

Where did you get this information? Anyhow, I feel like we have this conversation everywhere now, but with Prof X, Cyclops, and Hulkbuster, this is OP. Save up blue and yellow, create multiple match 5 reds with Hulk blue and Cyclops yellow, and kill half the team with Master Plan. You now have an extra 8 or so red AP from Master Plan, plus the match AP you got from using the blue and yellow at the same time. Easily get 14k damage out of Hulk red, after 8k damage from Prof X. If you somehow haven't killed everyone yet, Prof X boosts the defense tiles.

Alliance member's sandboxed Steam account, of course the classic "subject to change" i'm sure applies here somewhere, but he seems to be fairly balanced. He's self feeding, does strong but not insane damage, his blue is the only skill I worry about, because red isn't the kind of skill you can save up for, it drains all of it. Have 19AP and do 11970 great, except you now have 0 red AP again, that's how he's staying balanced, you can't double execute, and now you have to run through the whole thing again, so yeah, and once again, pX rears his head, seriously they need to fix him now or he ruins the game.

Arondite

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

So you would roughly generate 3.05 red tiles with another 2 tiles being random, so this on average will be a 9 AP for 5 AP conversion.

But as with the case with Technopathic Strike, a random sim vastly understates your results because in actual practice, you will wait until the board is full of greens next to reds before firing this off.

Not to mention Technopathic Strike takes blue and uses blue. This skill doesn't require the same ap of the color it transforms, thankfully

Unknown

I'm not seeing a problem with this guy. The red is a bit too good but as pointed out it is his only damaging skill so that probably factored in. Since it uses all AP unconditionally this means if you have 20 AP you can still only down one guy instead of spread it out to two people. The AP generators are strong but nothing we haven't seen before. When the characters is available to be played maybe it'll turn out that blue should be 10 AP instead of 9 AP or maybe black should generate one less AP or whatever, but no point to speculate on these things at the moment. The black/blue seems to convert damage to red at around 50-70% (depending on covers, board condition, and luck) and that's quite fair. Maybe the extra protect/strike tiles generated are too good but again you can't possibly determine that until the character is seen live.

Omega Red

Again with the "this is overpowered" talk?! Let me tell you something: This game is not balanced, has never been balanced and has no intention of EVER, being balanced. I keep finding posts by the nerf police cleverly pointing out how X or Y power is "OP" and "game breaking", even before character release. I wonder, what kind of game do you think this is and what kind of game do you want it to be? One would think that after one year and a half most of players here would understand that balance is not one of the core aspects of this game, quite the contrary. Maybe it is the need to show off what a hardcore nerd you are and how big is your understanding of the meta?

notamutant

Omega Red wrote:

Again with the "this is overpowered" talk?! Let me tell you something: This game is not balanced, has never been balanced and has no intention of EVER, being balanced. I keep finding posts by the nerf police cleverly pointing out how X or Y power is "OP" and "game breaking", even before character release. I wonder, what kind of game do you think this is and what kind of game do you want it to be? One would think that after one year and a half most of players here would understand that balance is not one of the core aspects of this game, quite the contrary. Maybe it is the need to show off what a hardcore nerd you are and how big is your understanding of the meta?

No, we point this out because clearly D3 HAS been focusing on balance lately. Why have they been focusing on balance? Because it brings them more money in the long run. When all a player needs is XForce and 4hor, then people don't need to buy new characters. Balance everyone out, and all of a sudden it makes sense to buy extra roster slots for every character and to buy characters for now balanced characters. So, D3 recently (over the past 2 months about) went on a massive balancing spree. Is it for the good of the game in the long run? Probably, in that you won't just see/use the same 3 characters every match. Does it ruin the game a bit by taking out awesome and overpowered characters? Yes, it does, but that would be boring after a while anyhow, so for long term health, they need to balance.

So, because there has been this huge focus on balance lately by D3, we as avid forum members and theory crafters are trying to figure out if new characters are balanced (reasonably enough) or in the potential nerf zone by D3, because we want to alert players to the potential OPness of a character so they don't waste HP on buying covers. If I knew for sure that SW and PX would never be nerfed, I would grab with HP 4 blue covers for Prof X and 4 blue for SW and use that team in every game I could. But since through my own observations, along with multiple other high level theory crafters on the forum, see that there is the potential for these characters to be nerfed, I decide to hold off on spending HP on OP characters. If through discussions here, we come to the conclusion it is actually a balanced character, then I will feel more interested in purchasing covers.

Unknown

If a Ballet of Death lasted 4 turns it'll beat Repulsor Punch in damage/AP, and that's not a very hard benchmark to do, and Ballet of Death isn't going to overkill someone either. Based on history the most likely significant change I can see is moving blue from 9 AP to 10 AP if they later determined it was too good since that extra 1 AP makes a lot of difference. The strike tiles generated by the black seems pretty high but Elektra is actually quite good now and so is She-Hulk who counters strike tiles hard.

Unknown

Omega Red wrote:

has never been balanced and has no intention of EVER, being balanced

Welp, everyone else go home.

poomermon wrote:

He also has 17810 health at max level. Red seems op. Who needs 4hor anymore?

You'll need 4Thor when Xavier and Hulkbuster are nerfed *kappa*

Omega Red

notamutant wrote:

Omega Red wrote:

Again with the "this is overpowered" talk?! Let me tell you something: This game is not balanced, has never been balanced and has no intention of EVER, being balanced. I keep finding posts by the nerf police cleverly pointing out how X or Y power is "OP" and "game breaking", even before character release. I wonder, what kind of game do you think this is and what kind of game do you want it to be? One would think that after one year and a half most of players here would understand that balance is not one of the core aspects of this game, quite the contrary. Maybe it is the need to show off what a hardcore nerd you are and how big is your understanding of the meta?

No, we point this out because clearly D3 HAS been focusing on balance lately. Why have they been focusing on balance? Because it brings them more money in the long run. When all a player needs is XForce and 4hor, then people don't need to buy new characters. Balance everyone out, and all of a sudden it makes sense to buy extra roster slots for every character and to buy characters for now balanced characters. So, D3 recently (over the past 2 months about) went on a massive balancing spree. Is it for the good of the game in the long run? Probably, in that you won't just see/use the same 3 characters every match. Does it ruin the game a bit by taking out awesome and overpowered characters? Yes, it does, but that would be boring after a while anyhow, so for long term health, they need to balance.

So, because there has been this huge focus on balance lately by D3, we as avid forum members and theory crafters are trying to figure out if new characters are balanced (reasonably enough) or in the potential nerf zone by D3, because we want to alert players to the potential OPness of a character so they don't waste HP on buying covers. If I knew for sure that SW and PX would never be nerfed, I would grab with HP 4 blue covers for Prof X and 4 blue for SW and use that team in every game I could. But since through my own observations, along with multiple other high level theory crafters on the forum, see that there is the potential for these characters to be nerfed, I decide to hold off on spending HP on OP characters. If through discussions here, we come to the conclusion it is actually a balanced character, then I will feel more interested in purchasing covers.

If you think the latest changes are proof that there has been a shift in the policy and balance is the new mantra then you are naive.

The reason why one buy covers in this game is because they help you win. You don't buy balanced tier, you buy top tier. Are you telling me you would rather buy a Colossus because he is less likely to be nerfed than Hood or Iron fist? This is a competitive game where he with the fastest team wins. As long as that core aspect of the game exists there will be no such thing as "balance".

cyineedsn

Random side note, does anyone else think hes like a bizarro juggernaut?

Massive hp, obnoxious headbutt with red, self-damages now comes while feeding his red, and instead of shaking the board and feeding himself with random cascades, he just converts it straight into red for more obnoxious headbutt action. Just imagine him in PVE scaled up with goons feeders...

Wonko33

I wish his blue was yellow instead

I wonder if he could have been the counter to xforce if they had not castrated him .

Unknown

cyineedsn wrote:

Random side note, does anyone else think hes like a bizarro juggernaut?

Massive hp, obnoxious headbutt with red, self-damages now comes while feeding his red, and instead of shaking the board and feeding himself with random cascades, he just converts it straight into red for more obnoxious headbutt action. Just imagine him in PVE scaled up with goons feeders...

He's definitely in the Juggernaut/Ares/Sentry progression. Red is very similar to Onslaught but without the drawback. Overdrive is like Sacrifice but with partial AP gain as opposed to just strike tiles. For a 4* I don't think he's overpowered, but he'll definitely be useful with other red converters, eg Cyclops/MNMags.

Unknown

I find it kind of lame that a "Hulkbuster" has only one offensive move and its a punch
Aside that, red seems interesting but it will take time to use
And you would have to be careful of not facing a Moonstone while you try to fill the board with red and... okay maybe not lol

Phaserhawk

daibar wrote:

cyineedsn wrote:

Random side note, does anyone else think hes like a bizarro juggernaut?

Massive hp, obnoxious headbutt with red, self-damages now comes while feeding his red, and instead of shaking the board and feeding himself with random cascades, he just converts it straight into red for more obnoxious headbutt action. Just imagine him in PVE scaled up with goons feeders...

He's definitely in the Juggernaut/Ares/Sentry progression. Red is very similar to Onslaught but without the drawback. Overdrive is like Sacrifice but with partial AP gain as opposed to just strike tiles. For a 4* I don't think he's overpowered, but he'll definitely be useful with other red converters, eg Cyclops/MNMags.

True, but I thinking people keep forgeting the drains all AP. So if you accelerate into him, awesome, but you are only 1 shoting 1 guy, as all the red AP is gone. This keeps him from becoming degenerate like 4hor did. So while you can cascade into all kinds of red, you almost don't want to since it will be overkill most of the time.

Phaserhawk

Agent Alex wrote:

I find it kind of lame that a "Hulkbuster" has only one offensive move and its a punch
Aside that, red seems interesting but it will take time to use
And you would have to be careful of not facing a Moonstone while you try to fill the board with red and... okay maybe not lol

A boosted enemy Blade would love to face off against Hulkbuster, you put red on the board, he Nightstalks you draining all the red you get, and since you remove green the odds of blowing up the Nightstalker tile decrease. Yeah, Blade would be a really good counter to Hulkbuster.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I find it kind of lame that a "Hulkbuster" has only one offensive move and its a punch
Aside that, red seems interesting but it will take time to use
And you would have to be careful of not facing a Moonstone while you try to fill the board with red and... okay maybe not lol

A boosted enemy Blade would love to face off against Hulkbuster, you put red on the board, he Nightstalks you draining all the red you get, and since you remove green the odds of blowing up the Nightstalker tile decrease. Yeah, Blade would be a really good counter to Hulkbuster.

Assuming his higher colour is red but yes, maybe Kingpin would do it faster, i dont remember the number of tiles required for any of their powers anyway lol
Blue sounds lame too, 72 strength? that doesn't sound like Hulk proof at all
Not so sure if im that excited about him, but well

Unknown

And lets not forget you can throw in She Hulk and try several times to drain red, i guess it doesn't bust all Hulks lol

Arondite

I personally love this guy, and I don't think he's imbalanced. He sits pretty comfortably on what I think is a good power level for a 4 Star hero.

notamutant

Arondite wrote:

I personally love this guy, and I don't think he's imbalanced. He sits pretty comfortably on what I think is a good power level for a 4 Star hero.

He is balanced. The problem with a game as complicated as this is many characters that would be balanced individually become unbalanced when teamed up with certain teammates. Only time will tell how balanced he is. I really don't have a problem with him since his best synergy requires two other guys, so he can only be abused in PvE or shield.