The upcoming X-Force nerf: The final nail in the coffin?

Unknown

I agree with most of the topic. I also put money on the game and feel like I'm increasingly impared. I like the team up tiles and the sheilds cooldowns for me are ok. But changes on some characters powers are ruin the game. If they change X for me I will be the end. Also with drop rates on the Tokens even the packs are ridiculous. Those probabilities are addicted. If they make those changes is game over for me.

Unknown

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Most things in this game are now better than half a year or a year or more ago. I certainly don't want to go back to the age before shields, before time slices (every PVE and most PVP ending at 5 or 6am, isn't that great?), before respeccing, etc. We just tend to forget the bad and only remember the good. So I think it's highly unfair to claim they're ruining the game when it's more that they've just not improved the game as fast as we'd like.

I think you misunderstood his point, his/her point was that they to also liked the time slices, the problem is that you can get stuck in a bad bracket where the same 10 people keep showing up over and over again. Their point was to keep the time slots, but have your possible opponents come from a wider berth - like every single other person in the same time slot as opposed to only the 500 in the bracket you were assigned.

Unknown

Great OP.

IAH, nothing negatively impacts my enjoyment of this game quite like the (seemingly) constant nerfing of characters. The equation is really quite simple for me:

I am striving to gain the better characters, putting in time, effort, money, etc., knowing full well that the 13 cover character I ultimately build could be rendered less effective with a mere keystroke?

So why bother with optimistic, goal-driven play (and the attendant possibility of putting resources into the process)?

DBC

Orangecrush

I don't want to see xforce nerfed so much as maybe get a rebalance. I'd be fine with making black not drain AP and give yellow some real damage, so that there is another option rather than 553. He is OP in his current state, but not extremely OP.

Kiamodo

Orangecrush wrote:

I don't want to see xforce nerfed so much as maybe get a rebalance. I'd be fine with making black not drain AP and give yellow some real damage, so that there is another option rather than 553. He is OP in his current state, but not extremely OP.

No change required.

TaoSpoons

This may be a mightily unpopular opinion, but I agree with the notion that X-Force needs a nerf. If my suspicions about their plans for 4-star characters are correct, I can see how he's above the 4-star power band they're trying to establish. X-Force as-is breaks (what I see as) their mold by allowing too much consistent damage output and utility. Both should be lower, or their costs should be higher for the output delivered.

But that is me speculating.

Phaserhawk

What are the supposed upcoming X-Force nerfs?

CrookedKnight

The idea that nothing overpowered should ever be fixed because people have paid specifically for that character/ability speaks to a glaring, fundamental flaw in the structure of F2P gaming, not a moral failing on the developers' part.

simonsez

Leave X-Force alone, or the dog gets it!

Unknown

I finally put up the cash to finish this character. If they're nerfing him, they'd better do it soon, because I want a full refund.

Chirus

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I finally put up the cash to finish this character. If they're nerfing him, they'd better do it soon, because I want a full refund.

Word to the wise? Go ahead and request Google for a full refund right now. Whether the nerf comes or not, there has been enough changes to the gameplay and character mechanics that you can sufficiently argue you didn't get what you paid for. Even if the reason isn't that great, Google will still give you a 1-time courtesy refund. Get it and be on standby to quit this game when the nerf happens.

Unknown

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23803

Can you openly talk about the future of the 4 Stars? As long as I have to fear that whoever I level for thousands of HP will get nerfed and according to your reimbursement policy will leave me with a Candy Apple where all my currency used to be I can't make a move. Or are we going to pretend that everything is fine and it should be almost impossible for a new player to climb the ranks without spending a significant amount of money on the game. I have even seen 2 Star players who have a singulaar 270 553 Xforce, what is up with that? Can you assure everyone that nothing is going to happen to either Xforce or 4hor so people can make their move and spend their money? I am lucky in the regard that I am only missing 3 covers but some people need far more and it requirses a significantly larger investment.

*drops mic*

Yasuru

I finally got my X-F leveled and properly specced. I invested $ getting him to 13 covers to max him, and only got the 5th green 3 PvPs ago. That being said, I am not planning to quit if the nerf bat hits, but I am changing how I play.

I will not shield-hop to try to get 1000, as I no longer think 4 stars are worth the effort.

I will not buy covers for characters, as any worth getting covers for are in the nerf crosshairs.

All HP I gain will be used for roster slots so I don't get locked out of essentials.

When I either cannot place high enough to get a released character, or roster slot costs overrun my HP influx, then I will quit. I am not dropping another dime on this game, though.

evil panda

What xforce nerf?

GuntherBlobel

I'm sorry, but the outrage over the mnMags "nerf" showed me that players freak out over any possible change: good, bad, or inconsequential. No one even knows what the possible changes to X-Force are (expect the OP).

Can someone "in the know" please start a Speculation thread to confirm or deny these claims with specific details or link to one.

In regards to the overall post, I agree with some of the OP, but some of it is just wistful nostalgia talking. Environmental Tiles were either completely ignored or greatly abused depending on the player. At least TUs are used as intended by some players.

babinro

Final Nail or a New beginning?

This is a bit of a devils advocate post I admit but I think it's worth pointing these out. The devs have had a pretty clear vision with many of the recent changes...

1) Tighten the gap between 3* character and 4* character power level.

2) Slow the pace of the game down so both teams have a chance to execute powers before a match is set in stone.

3) Focus on making the experience a bit more accessible for non-vets.

The Thor nerf made these goals abundantly clear which explains why so many people unironically called an XF nerf to follow up in time. The devs posting that XF was above the bar of expected power all but confirmed what we already knew.

Whether or not you agree with the games direction, this nerf was necessary to achieve their design goals. Buffing everyone to XF level just speeds the game up too much and trivializes certain strategies.

I'm personally giving these changes the benefit of the doubt and am willing to try out the new experience objectively. This game as a whole has improved substantially over the year and I want to think it'll continue to improve by the end of 2015.

*********************************
That bit of game analysis aside I just wanted to comment on J1P's comments.

Environmental Tiles:
I also miss these. I wish they'd return as your default option when no TU's are selected. I won't go as far as to say they were a strictly superior mechanic because the current state of TU's are actually kind of fun (though it took a lot of changes to get there).

Shield Cooldowns:
I LOVE this change. For me, the pvp experience is far more competitive and less pay to win as a result of this change (in general). It's a more tactical pvp game knowing people have limited hops available to them and can't just spam shield hops every 15-20 minutes for the last 2 hours to gain a 300 point lead on what was once a close battle to the end. This change alone doesn't fix pvp problems completely but I consider them a step in the right direction for sure.

PvP/MMR/Time Slices:
I agree with much of this. Even if PvP is made more fair by the MMR changes there's no discounting the fact that the experience as a whole is a lot less FUN. This is a video game. We want a sense of progression even if implementing it has to be artificially done. I'm sure this goes for all tiers of players and not just vets. I love time slices but the shard metagame is a complete joke that truly does wreck this game. 1000 prog rewards being obtainable in certain shards only is something that MUST be fixed. You don't go to 3 different McDonald's in town to find that one has a regular menu, the other doesn't use Ketchup and the other doesn't sell Big Macs. Consistency in your game play experience is important.

Inexcusable nerfs:
I'm in the minority of these forums in that nerfs don't bother me. I've played online games that have done this for well over 10 years now. It's normal and expected. I don't agree with every nerf but I realize it's part of any game I buy with online play (regardless of F2P, monthly sub or 1-time purchase model). I guess it's my exposure to this practice that has long since dulled me to any anger of nerfs. As long as the character is playable in some form I'm happy. The only character I feel D3 has completely failed us on in terms of nerfs has been spidey. I'm not happy with the Thor nerf but I still find use for her even though it's outside of competitive PvP. The proposed XF nerf will still make XF an excellent damage/shakeup utility character whose great at removing specialty tiles from the board. He'll have a role in this game and see play even if it's no longer at the upper tiers of PvP.

Great post J1P.
As you can see I agree and disagree with a lot of your issues. I'm trying to stay cautiously optimistic about this whole thing and hope that the game ultimately improves as it has from the beginning. Only time will tell though.

Malcrof

I have a feeling with all the changes recently, and the rapid releases of new characters, an XForce nerf/balancing, is part of something much larger looming. I say everyone sit tight and wait it out, something tells me they are laying the groundwork for a MAJOR update/reworking.

elvy75

TaoSpoons wrote:

This may be a mightily unpopular opinion, but I agree with the notion that X-Force needs a nerf. If my suspicions about their plans for 4-star characters are correct, I can see how he's above the 4-star power band they're trying to establish. X-Force as-is breaks (what I see as) their mold by allowing too much consistent damage output and utility. Both should be lower, or their costs should be higher for the output delivered.

But that is me speculating.

If they want 4* to be slightly better than 3* then they should cost that much more than 3*. I am sorry but for double amount of HP and ISO, they should be much better than the 3*. Currently you have each category costing double the price of previous one, and is as much powerful, so why 4* cant be as powerful? It is not the problem in xforce, and it wasnt the problem with GT (who was really bad on defense btw), the problem is that they are not able/willing to make other 4* worthy. Without real 4* players will lose the interest, as a lot of people i know were still playing just for the promise of 4* tier.

Unknown

People calling for ANY kind of XF nerf, kind of miss the point that a lot of us are saying.

I'm not scared of change, and actually I advocate a great amount of change in the whole game's structure as per some of my other posts. I don't think most of the vets are scared of change.

What we want is a goal to aim for in developing our rosters - a reason to go through the grind. The devs continually drop 3*s at the moment, but to what end? I have maybe 15 maxed 3*. Do I need another. Sure IF and KK may actually be elite 3*s but aren't they overpowered in the context of a 3*?

Anyone calling for a nerf to XF, can you answer me one question? If a 4* isn't supposed to be significantly better than a 3*, the what's the point? Why grind 5 times as hard to max cover the 4* and then invest twice the ISO to have a character that isn't any better than the top 3*s.

We now have what 9 4* characters? How many of those are significantly better than 3* Thor, Daken, Hood, IF or KK? Then answer how many of them are no better or actually worse?

What's the next step? Nerf all the 3*s, so that Ares is the best character in the game?

Even if the XF nerf rumour isn't accurate, the devs should be working to create a class of character above the current 3* layer, so that there are more options beyond XF - not remove that one option.

Unknown

It is becoming clearer that 4*s are meant to be more exclusive, but not more dominatingly powerful. If you see no point in an incremental upgrade for the level of effort it takes to get there, then there is no point. Go level some more 3*s, if that is not fun for you then don't...