Changes Coming In Season XIII

tanis3303

Azoic wrote:

Um, yah, the max teams do farm off 94s. Why hit a team worth 28, who might retaliate, whwen you can hit a few 94 teams whom have no choice but to take it? That is what happens if you het over 400 pts, which is no where near any meaningful progression. You had to be lucky to hit t100 at all, so pvp was good for a little iso and a heroic token.And being farmed.

But don't you see what's gonna happen? We're still gonna as you say "farm noobs". I just did it. I climbed by like 400 points off the backs of low level transitioning teams in Heavy Metal. People with rosters like low level Caps and Gsbws and Lthors, hell I even saw a lvl 110 Colossus...they now have a retal node of 270 xforce, 166 Loki and 165 M40 that they'd be crazy to attempt, and they have it with like 6 hours left in the event! The same thing is gonna happen to you guys, it's just gonna happen at the end of the events now, when it matters. Used to be that the vets would slug it out with themselves in the final hours because we couldn't see the transitioners anymore. Guess what? Now we see you, and you're worth 25+ points. With mere hours left in the event to make them back up, and since we've all started climbing now and settling around your scores, good luck finding something to fight that's not 270 xforce + other nightmares. If everyone wants tiered competition, then we need REAL tiered competition. Different brackets, different rewards. Throwing everyone into the same pool is NEVER GOING TO WORK, someone is always gonna get the shaft.

JamesV

My experience has been very very few teams below 166 but a large number at the 270 line. I'm in the *** to **** star transition -- 228 X-Force, no other 4 stars above 80, a large number of 166s and I don't really have a problem with playing matches against my own power level, but because there can be no diversity in PVP -- using anything but your most powerful characters is a death wish -- this PVP has basically been a cycle of "earn 80 points. stop because I'm out of health packs. Lose 60 points." Realistically it does't matter how many characters you have, when you are forced to only use 2.

This has been my worst PVP since early summer of last year when I was just starting the ** to *** transition.

I completely understand the desire to fix the system and to allow ** and ** to *** transition teams to not be punished for not fielding the best characters, but this solution just adjusts too far in the other direction, IMO.

If this was to fix the frustration of lower level teams running out of people to fight/being feasted on, I agree with the POV that all this did was move the problem from early in the climb to the end of the event.

If it was to fix the problem of rewards and placement, wouldn't a better solution be to bracket people based on roster level but keep everyone in the same pool? If say level 78 to level 130s were competing for placement against themselves, would it matter if they hit a wall at 600 points if they are able to place for the top 100 rewards which helps to grow their roster which in turn would help them do better over time (which would also allow them to hit the higher progression rewards as they go?).

Unknown

Another possible change to improve the PvP situation if roster matching is here to stay: Point Floors. You passed 500 points? Good job, you can now not fall below 500 points. Oh you passed 750? Good job you can no not fall below 750. Has all the benefits of changing expected value (since points gained for no points lost is possible) plus the added benefit of curbing the attack waves that seem to be happening. I'd add them int at 250, 500, 750 probably.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Another possible change to improve the PvP situation if roster matching is here to stay: Point Floors. You passed 500 points? Good job, you can now not fall below 500 points. Oh you passed 750? Good job you can no not fall below 750. Has all the benefits of changing expected value (since points gained for no points lost is possible) plus the added benefit of curbing the attack waves that seem to be happening. I'd add them int at 250, 500, 750 probably.

I like this idea. D3 won't like it cuz someone could just get to 1 million pts and put up a a level 1 team for everyone else's benefit.

But I like this idea.

Unknown

I'd be happy, well not happy but I wouldn't be as pissed about the rework of PVP, if my retaliation matches let me earn back as many points as were taken from me.

If someone hits and takes 45 points off of me while I'm tring to stay t10/25/50/pick a number, why does my retaliation give me 12-17 back??? That doesn't really seem "fair" -- after all, changes we made so things were more fair right?

Unknown

That just made me think of another possible change for positive PvP experiences: Retaliation nodes worth exactly what you lost for them (always no matter what). Retaliation nodes also do NOT lower the score of the person you hit, and do not cause further retaliation nodes to occur. If I get hit for 50 I can win that node for my 50 points back. I'm out a bit of time and effort, other guy got 50 points, but my overall score will degrade much less and reflect actual time and effort put in much more. You could even allow retaliation nodes to be cleared while shielded (that would be awesome). Would also have the positive effect of dampening the advantage of multi-alliance communications, since being hit will matter less.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

That just made me think of another possible change for positive PvP experiences: Retaliation nodes worth exactly what you lost for them (always no matter what). Retaliation nodes also do NOT lower the score of the person you hit, and do not cause further retaliation nodes to occur. If I get hit for 50 I can win that node for my 50 points back. I'm out a bit of time and effort, other guy got 50 points, but my overall score will degrade much less and reflect actual time and effort put in much more. You could even allow retaliation nodes to be cleared while shielded (that would be awesome). Would also have the positive effect of dampening the advantage of multi-alliance communications, since being hit will matter less.

I think the equivalent reliation makes sense. Just because I'm worth 500 points and a 270 maxed player snipes me who just started the event, that doesn't mean i should get **** points in return.

Matter of fact, the big problem is we're ALWAYS getting **** points gain in the first place.

I think the underlying problem is they need to increase point-worth, period.

And maybe have people be attackable when they're shielded, but they won't lose points and they can't retaliate against you.

Unknown

It appears I may have come up with an idea at least a couple people are interested in... that's nice to see.

Hey, D3... are you reading any of this. The retaliation ideas in this thread make some sense.

puppychow

Lerysh wrote:

Another possible change to improve the PvP situation if roster matching is here to stay: Point Floors. You passed 500 points? Good job, you can now not fall below 500 points. Oh you passed 750? Good job you can no not fall below 750. Has all the benefits of changing expected value (since points gained for no points lost is possible) plus the added benefit of curbing the attack waves that seem to be happening. I'd add them int at 250, 500, 750 probably.

I think point floors is a BAD idea, because it would introduce point inflation into the system. If players know that if they hit 500, for example, and won't fall below that no matter what, they're going to take crazy risks in going after targets and not bother to shield until the last second to lock in placement. For D3, it would be less profitable b/c the floors would result in less use of shields by players.

Andy9009

HiPhoneGamer wrote:

It appears I may have come up with an idea at least a couple people are interested in... that's nice to see.

Hey, D3... are you reading any of this. The retaliation ideas in this thread make some sense.

Nope they're busy enjoying their Easter weekend unlike their player base who has to suffer through poor untested changes on a long weekend when they are not monitoring or supporting the game.

Such unprofessional conduct and disrespect for their customers to say here are bunch of changes, live with it, we'll be back in a few days to assess the aftermath.

Glad I didn't buy any in the last sale. All the changes lately have simply made the game more work than enjoyment. The only thing that was remotely good was an unintended side effect from their screw up: Rags is no longer annoying in PVE.

Unknown

puppychow wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Another possible change to improve the PvP situation if roster matching is here to stay: Point Floors. You passed 500 points? Good job, you can now not fall below 500 points. Oh you passed 750? Good job you can no not fall below 750. Has all the benefits of changing expected value (since points gained for no points lost is possible) plus the added benefit of curbing the attack waves that seem to be happening. I'd add them int at 250, 500, 750 probably.

I think point floors is a BAD idea, because it would introduce point inflation into the system. If players know that if they hit 500, for example, and won't fall below that no matter what, they're going to take crazy risks in going after targets and not bother to shield until the last second to lock in placement. For D3, it would be less profitable b/c the floors would result in less use of shields by players.

As long as they were only 250, 500, 750 then I don't think it would impact too much. Placement in the strong brackets has 100th at >1000 sometimes. Point inflation is exactly what we want. Complaints on the new match system are basically all rooted in "scoring X points is much harder now". At least from me, I only use 0-1 shields per event anyway since the cooldown change, and surf the point wave until then anyway so point floors are no big loss of shield income there. Could take out the 750, and have a 500 point floor, since the complaint seems to be "I can't easily climb to 500 and camp anymore", a 500 checkpoint would fix that.

Unknown

My experience in Heavy Metal(TLDR - it was good): viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26873&p=328795#p328795

GrumpySmurf1002

Just started Kamala's event, and first teams I see after the seeds are 2* teams. That's a positive.

Until I remember they forget to apply changes to events all the time, so it might just be a QA fail and not just the matchmaking adjusting properly.

Unknown

I think you might be right Grumpy. I just joined when I seen your post and its all looking promising.

cletus1985

Lerysh wrote:

puppychow wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Another possible change to improve the PvP situation if roster matching is here to stay: Point Floors. You passed 500 points? Good job, you can now not fall below 500 points. Oh you passed 750? Good job you can no not fall below 750. Has all the benefits of changing expected value (since points gained for no points lost is possible) plus the added benefit of curbing the attack waves that seem to be happening. I'd add them int at 250, 500, 750 probably.

I think point floors is a BAD idea, because it would introduce point inflation into the system. If players know that if they hit 500, for example, and won't fall below that no matter what, they're going to take crazy risks in going after targets and not bother to shield until the last second to lock in placement. For D3, it would be less profitable b/c the floors would result in less use of shields by players.

As long as they were only 250, 500, 750 then I don't think it would impact too much. Placement in the strong brackets has 100th at >1000 sometimes. Point inflation is exactly what we want. Complaints on the new match system are basically all rooted in "scoring X points is much harder now". At least from me, I only use 0-1 shields per event anyway since the cooldown change, and surf the point wave until then anyway so point floors are no big loss of shield income there. Could take out the 750, and have a 500 point floor, since the complaint seems to be "I can't easily climb to 500 and camp anymore", a 500 checkpoint would fix that.

I like your "gameplan" in theory, but I agree that if points weren't leveled congruently it may lead to spikes that would throw off the developers plans and deviate from anticipated gameplay. The solution "should" be simple though (not going to proclaim this as fact ), simply make point targets only available in your range 20-25, keeping points somewhat fresh. Once you hit the final cutoff (750) in the initial proposal, everyone above that can hit anyone, where people above are worth 20-50 (just like every other bracket) and people below are worth less (10-20 pts for 500-750 pool, 10-15 pts for 250-500 pool, and 5-10 pts for 0-250 pool). This would encourage joining early, which isn't an incentive for any players without top tiers rosters currently, and open rewards to most tiers, while not devaluing advanced rosters.

Unknown

Yes please screw the players who invested time and money over because they don't put the money in you are after. Instead strengthen the transition players hoping they'll put in that money, then nerf everything so they'll leave too. Maybe one should fix things that need to be fixed, like pve events (Yay 6new chars in the last 6/7weeks!) where you have to grind three weeks in a row to have a shot at the prizes. I'm pretty sure right now that I won't see second anniversary and many other vets won't too.

Unknown

I really like all the changes to the PVP except matchmaking, which I have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, I understand what they are trying to do, and I applaud that.

I guess I'm just surprised that they made this change while still trying to figure out the power ups (which I was really looking forward to). Also, this makes the current progression nodes feel impossible for me again. I could hit 1000 usually after spending about 2-3 shields, with maybe one more shield to finish with a decent placement.

And let's face it, I think that's about right. Spending 300-450 HP to hit 1000 I'm sure is roughly what they're looking for. But for me, it took careful planning and early climbing because of shield cooldowns.

With the new changes, I think early climbing only means getting hit more. I'm not sure anyone without 270 xforce can hit 1000 anymore. (I have a 229 xf).

Without the data, I can't say for sure, but my gut feeling is that this change:
1) benefits 2* rosters,
2) hurts 2*-> 3* transitioners more,
3) hurts the 3->4* transitioners more,
4) while not affecting the top players with maxed 4* rosters

Also, has anyone looked at shield simulator? I have no points, but all 5 of my nodes have 166 guys.

Thoughts?

fmftint

The early climb for Teenage Riot is definitely different than Heavy Metal

Vinmarc43

Started teenage pvp, at 417 pts now, highest team I saw was 94/94/120, so it's back to normal, for now anyway. So maybe we **** to early, lol

Unknown

Vinmarc43 wrote:

Started teenage pvp, at 417 pts now, highest team I saw was 94/94/120, so it's back to normal, for now anyway. So maybe we **** to early, lol

Or maybe we **** the exact right amount!