Nerfs, diversions, and you.

Unknown

I don't know enough about the legalities of all this (I suspect in the EU where I live that if someone could be bothered enough to take it to court, the judge would rule in favour of the player, but we'll never know) but it happens so much in mobile/online gaming that I am kinda surprised that people put money into these games on anything more than a very basic level. Nerfs happen loads. Worst case, I have some friends playing Criminal Legacy, they put money into it and now Gree have just announced they are shutting the game down. No warning, and they were letting you spend money 60 seconds before they issued the press release. No comebacks, no transferring of funds to other Gree games, nothing. I guess it's like any industry, there are companies that, in your own eyes do the right things, and others that don't. I invest money in games where the developers communicate with the players frequently and address issues and don't change things in an instant with no warning. The other games I just play f2p and just see what happens.

I find it really hard to say to anybody that I 100% agree with their stance though. I don't believe for a minute that D3 are some evil criminal enterprise that are raking in cash, laughing manically whilst they do so, intentionally screwing people over. But at the same time I don't think they have a long-term plan and they have demonstrated, time and again, that they will change things (often but not always for the worse) in a way that is communicated poorly and frustrates the player base. So, aside from a £4 purchase when I first started the game to get an Alliance spot, and £14 last month as I had been on and off in this game for a year, I won't give them money. But if you have spent $100's for some reason on this game and you feel hard done by then I guess you have every right to complain. If it makes you feel better.

atomzed

hermanbloom wrote:

but it happens so much in mobile/online gaming that I am kinda surprised that people put money into these games on anything more than a very basic level. Nerfs happen loads. Worst case, I have some friends playing Criminal Legacy, they put money into it and now Gree have just announced they are shutting the game down. No warning, and they were letting you spend money 60 seconds before they issued the press release. No comebacks, no transferring of funds to other Gree games, nothing. I guess it's like any industry, there are companies that, in your own eyes do the right things, and others that don't. I invest money in games where the developers communicate with the players frequently and address issues and don't change things in an instant with no warning. The other games I just play f2p and just see what happens.

I agree with this stance, as it is so common in mobile games that I learnt not to put in money unless it gives me a lot of entertainment value. Then it's a matter of how much I want to support the company so that they can continue in business.

In mpq, I spend about a couple of hundreds on it. Initially on covers for Lcap, pun and hulk, then subsequently only on roster slots, shields and boosts. I still have 8k hp in the bank, and I able to break even with judicious use of shields.

I don't measure the money I spend in terms of the "value" it gives me in competing. I measure the money in terms of the entertainment value I get. And so far I feel it's worth it.

Some may say that "the amount of money you spend may buy AAA games! How can you say it's worth it?". Well, due to my professional life it is so hard to play console games now, so.mobile games become my substitute. And I do enjoy the mpq a lot. As long as I don't run my life around it (ok, sometimes I do that.... ), mpq is a great entertainment for me.

Unknown

Why are you guys validating this guy with replies. Look at his post history, this is a 12 year old looking to get a rise out of adults.

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Eula doesn't trump federal/state statues...otherwise anyone can put in that they are not liable for killing anyone they want at anytime or stealing from you at anytime..or driving drunk or doing anything they decide to.

I don't understand why people keep quoting laws, especially national ones in a multinational game.

The actual question is, why can't D3 just stop being a-holes to its customers? You can't compare buying a cover in this game to a physical product. It's more like purchasing a service. Players are paying money for the ability to do something in the game and the devs are just taking it away. If I pay for a year of weekly window washing and the contractor just decides to mow the lawn once a month instead, I would rightfully be ticked off and expect my money back or some kind of partial refund. At the very least, they could allow players to respec their character after a nerf. Do you know how frustrating it must be for the 99% of players that don't regularly check the forums? Imagine buying a final black cover and having to delete a green cover to get it, only to have the black covered nerfed the next day, so the player now needs to buy back a green cover.

Unknown

rooter wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Eula doesn't trump federal/state statues...otherwise anyone can put in that they are not liable for killing anyone they want at anytime or stealing from you at anytime..or driving drunk or doing anything they decide to.

I don't understand why people keep quoting laws, especially national ones in a multinational game.

The actual question is, why can't D3 just stop being a-holes to its customers? You can't compare buying a cover in this game to a physical product. It's more like purchasing a service. Players are paying money for the ability to do something in the game and the devs are just taking it away. If I pay for a year of weekly window washing and the contractor just decides to move the lawn once a month instead, I would rightfully be ticked off and expect my money back or some kind of partial refund.

Like Will kind of said once, it all depends on your perspective. What I expect from the game is a match-3 game with some strategy and variety thrown in, and any money I've put into the game has been because of that. Imagine tomorrow they brought back old Spidey - strategy and variety are severely decreased and it's completely counter to my expectations when I put money in the game. Do I deserve a refund for everything I spent?

At the very least, they could allow players to respec their character after a nerf. Do you know how frustrating it must be for the 99% of players that don't regularly check the forums? Imagine buying a final black cover and having to delete a green cover to get it, only to have the black covered nerfed the next day, so the player now needs to buy back a green cover.

This just seems like a no-brainer and imo is pretty much one of the only entirely indefensible aspects of how d3p handles the game

Unknown

rooter wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Eula doesn't trump federal/state statues...otherwise anyone can put in that they are not liable for killing anyone they want at anytime or stealing from you at anytime..or driving drunk or doing anything they decide to.

I don't understand why people keep quoting laws, especially national ones in a multinational game.

The actual question is, why can't D3 just stop being a-holes to its customers? You can't compare buying a cover in this game to a physical product. It's more like purchasing a service. Players are paying money for the ability to do something in the game and the devs are just taking it away. If I pay for a year of weekly window washing and the contractor just decides to mow the lawn once a month instead, I would rightfully be ticked off and expect my money back or some kind of partial refund. At the very least, they could allow players to respec their character after a nerf. Do you know how frustrating it must be for the 99% of players that don't regularly check the forums? Imagine buying a final black cover and having to delete a green cover to get it, only to have the black covered nerfed the next day, so the player now needs to buy back a green cover.

People keep quoting laws because:

1. People feel like they got screwed over...a company selling stuff is involved...and money was involved...usually the prime ingredients for a lawsuit.
2. Some posters feel that people proclaiming illegal activities are silly and way off base when in fact there seems to be laws meant to protect consumers from this type of behavior which covers not only stuff but services as well...which may or may not be able to be proven...who knows, until records and emails are introduced as evidence.
3. Some posters cannot seem to get beyond the fact that this is a mobile app game...so all they can say is nerfs happen. When in reality, it's a seller and a buyer. Just because the digital marketplace is new doesn't mean the parallels couldn't be made with other seller/buyer industries. The covers they sell are not for an entire character or a game or a world but a specific skill set...if the "nerf" is unreasonable to render it useless, then yeah, I think people have an argument.
4. A multinational company...giant conglomerates like GE or coke that operate and sell stuff in a bazillion countries have to abide by that countries laws. So just because they are multinational doesn't mean they get a free pass. Another reason why people are quoting laws.

Again I have no dog in this fight, you are right, they should be more respectful of their customers who buy stuff. Just wanted to reply why people are quoting laws. I have no clue if anyone would even bother to pursue this because in the grand scheme of things, the amount of effort and time to do so would far outweigh any possible gains...probably years of litigation. And that may or may not be a reason why these mobile app companies have approached their customers the way they do and keep doing what they do because these micro transactions don't seem like much so when people do get screwed, they just accept it and move on..as evident by the people that say "people should have known better," "nerfs happen all the time," etc.

Okay I'm done on all of this. That's my last two cents on it. I've moved on. Free to play player from here on out.

wirius

rooter wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Eula doesn't trump federal/state statues...otherwise anyone can put in that they are not liable for killing anyone they want at anytime or stealing from you at anytime..or driving drunk or doing anything they decide to.

I don't understand why people keep quoting laws, especially national ones in a multinational game.

The actual question is, why can't D3 just stop being a-holes to its customers? You can't compare buying a cover in this game to a physical product. It's more like purchasing a service. Players are paying money for the ability to do something in the game and the devs are just taking it away. If I pay for a year of weekly window washing and the contractor just decides to mow the lawn once a month instead, I would rightfully be ticked off and expect my money back or some kind of partial refund. At the very least, they could allow players to respec their character after a nerf. Do you know how frustrating it must be for the 99% of players that don't regularly check the forums? Imagine buying a final black cover and having to delete a green cover to get it, only to have the black covered nerfed the next day, so the player now needs to buy back a green cover.

I have not addressed this portion yet, and should. Honestly, I'm ignorant to how the law works for international digital games, so cannot weigh in. However, we can use a little logic and common sense.

Lets go back to the early game in which Ragnarok could end the game in one turn. It was so good, you had to have those, and completely and utterly invalidated all other characters. In fact, it was boring. Nothing else was worth earning, and it ceased being a match 3 game. Such a character invalidated all other gameplay.

1. Now if D3 had not nerfed this character, many customers would have quit and the game would have become pay to win trash. So they nerfed Rags. Is that theft? Is that illegal? Could you honestly sit in a court and think, "They were theives and fraudsters?" If you say yes, then you also must by logic agree that giving "buffs" is also illegal! You see, the argument is, I bought for something, and you changed it. Lets say I liked the gameplay of the old character, and actually do not have fun with it buffed. The same argument applies. Is this theft to buff a character then?

2. if you open up nerfing bought characters as theft, then you destroy online gaming. Lets look at other f2p like league of legends. They've nerfed almost every character in game at least once. Do they now need to issue refunds to all players? Do they do it in IP or RP (money currency)? Doesn't that bankrupt the game? Also, if I buff characters, doesn't that I'm inadvertantly nerfing other characters? I bought a character that has this power in the hierarchy, and because you buffed another character, the character I bought is now lower in the hierarchy! Does that mean they scammed me and they are theives?

3. Lets go even FURTHER. What about games you simply bought that patch notes are late applied? I bought starcraft years and years ago, and they patched things in to balance the terran. My old strategies were destroyed, and it was no longer the game I originally paid for. Because of balancing, Starcraft is considered one of the most balanced games in history. But if you believe changing anything about a game is theft and fraud, even basic patches for games are illegal as well.

So again, this is reactionary drivel over people not being able to handle their own emotions. Welcome to free to plays in which you can spend 100's of dollars, and have your character change. Do you feel cheated? Then don't spend 100's of dollars in the future. To do so without expecting a change in characters is either ignorant, or foolish. That's on the person to deal with, and not the companies intent to deceive.

Unknown

Why. Why are you guys taking the time to do this. This is just a kid going "Lol d3 does whatever they want don't cry because they nerfed your character lol"

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

Why. Why are you guys taking the time to do this. This is just a kid going "Lol d3 does whatever they want don't cry because they nerfed your character lol"

Honestly, I have some free time and the other topics are kind of bland. I may head over to the tips and guide section, have been there in a while.

simonsez

wirius wrote:

Honestly, I'm ignorant

I tried really, really hard to resist, but ultimately, I couldn't...

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

ark123 wrote:

Why. Why are you guys taking the time to do this. This is just a kid going "Lol d3 does whatever they want don't cry because they nerfed your character lol"

Honestly, I have some free time and the other topics are kind of bland. I may head over to the tips and guide section, have been there in a while.

I always find this stuff worth reading. Even accounting for my own rules (75% of people posting on the internet are not saying what they actually believe) some of the stuff that gets posted as "fact" is, um, interesting.

Unknown

wirius wrote:

So again, this is reactionary drivel

I wasn't going to.... but I feel like you forced me to Simon

KrazyKeylime

3uphoria wrote:

I have poured nearly 1000$ into this game .

wow thanks for keeping this game afloat. whale identified. hope everything works out for you. You have been hit more times then most with the nerf stick, how are you holding up, do you still see yourself still playing in the next 3 month, 6 months, a year? and how much more of these heavy handed changes do you think you can stand before you had enough and leave?

Unknown

KrazyKeylime wrote:

3uphoria wrote:

I have poured nearly 1000$ into this game .

wow thanks for keeping this game afloat. whale identified. hope everything works out for you. You have been hit more times then most with the nerf stick, how are you holding up, do you still see yourself still playing in the next 3 month, 6 months, a year? and how much more of these heavy handed changes do you think you can stand before you had enough and leave?

He could probably just sell the account and get most of that back or more even....if there are any buyers, which there always are.

GuntherBlobel

But you shouldn't talk about that on the forum, because selling accounts breaks the EULA. Just FYI.

simonsez

GuntherBlobel wrote:

But you shouldn't talk about that on the forum, because selling accounts breaks the EULA. Just FYI.

Holy ****, those Gs just committed conspiracy to break the EULA... better call Saul...

Trisul

ark123 wrote:

Why. Why are you guys taking the time to do this. This is just a kid going "Lol d3 does whatever they want don't cry because they nerfed your character lol"

ark123 wrote:

Why are you guys validating this guy with replies. Look at his post history, this is a 12 year old looking to get a rise out of adults.

I'm going to echo ark: please stop validating this disguised flamebaiting. Please.

wirius

A few trolls now, excellent. I see my points are hitting home then. Instead of being able to address the points, you take your anger and inability to counter these claims by irrationally attacking the person who is making you uncomfortable. Hm. That merely confirms my points that people who are threatening to sue and blaming D3 for theft irrationally are emotionally immature people who blame D3 because these emotionally immature people feel bad. Thanks. You are the exact people I'm talking about, and prove my point wonderfully.

Its o.k. if you're unable to discuss rationally like many other people did in this thread. Not everyone has the ability to do so.

Unknown

Must admit I don't get the repeated "he's trolling, don't respond" posts. Just making the thread even longer

Unknown

wirius wrote:

A few trolls now, excellent. I see my points are hitting home then. Instead of being able to address the points, you take your anger and inability to counter these claims by irrationally attacking the person who is making you uncomfortable. Hm. That merely confirms my points that people who are threatening to sue and blaming D3 for theft irrationally are emotionally immature people who blame D3 because these emotionally immature people feel bad. Thanks. You are the exact people I'm talking about, and prove my point wonderfully.

Its o.k. if you're unable to discuss rationally like many other people did in this thread. Not everyone has the ability to do so.

wirius, you had some excellent points, (I will have to upvote you on my phone, work has popups blocked.) But don't let the trolls make you post things like this, it is just more bait. Your argument is quite valid.

As for the EULA, it states that the company reserves the right to alter any of there content. Meaning they could change every characters powers to a 2 ap nuke if they so deemed. No bait and switch, no fraud.