Coming Soon: Character Updates!

KrazyKeylime

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Marc Spector wrote:

Thanks so much for the detailed update, Miles! I'm really looking forward to trying out the new Ragnarok -- and, happy to see a blue power on such a tanky character.

will Rags now have three different color strengths as is the standard? (I never knew in the past why he seemed to be unique in having equal strength on green and red). I presume that order is now Green>Red>Blue?

Yes! That's rolled in with the update. You should see his new color strengths when he arrives in-game later this evening.

wow this is what you choose to reply to?

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Chrono_Tata wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Busy little bees...I kept scrolling and couldn't find invisible woman...

It seems the only ones affected by Invisible Woman's invisibility are the devs.

Not a huge fan of Ragnarok's changes at this point since it seems to completely change his character from a weak but fast character into a (2- and 3-star) Thor-like slow build-up powerful character. Nothing wrong with it of course but I liked the contrast between Thor and Ragnarok's playstyles. Will have to actually try him to see how it goes.

Thoria's nerfs to her charged tile generation seems fair. However I'm not sure if the nerf to her stun was really necessary.

Thank goodness for Iron Fist's nerf.

MMags & Mystique nerf was necessary, but I'm sad that the MMags nerf is going to heavily affect his combo possibility with CStorm, which was a totally valid combo.

i felt a disturbance in the force....it was like a million 2* roster players screamed out in agony...

Mnmags and cstorm no more...that just hurt a lot of people's climb in pvp

And ragnarok will just be even more annoying in pve...I can't wait to face his level 9000 self in the hunt...starting today!!!

I've already tested. Still easy to make a match five with just 3 blue tiles. The combo is just not op any more.

Dartmaster01

franckynight

im sorry devs for questioning you but have you ever played that game? if you have playtested iron fist you would have seen that he is op right form the start.. i can understand the nerf on GT and winfinite but on a char just one week after he is released.. i fell robbed from my hp and iso i put into him.. had i known i would not have bought the 3 covers not invested 170 k isos.. i dont even know if i would have played his pve.. and ragnarok is pretty meh.. 12 green ap!!! are you serious? way to go d3..

Unknown

ricin wrote:

Well, since you have decided to tinykitty over 3* people using Mystique MMags combo (I have no max Xforce or Goddess Thor) in PVE. Will you drop the stupid tinykitty scaling that has been put into effect? When I start a PVE and nodes are already scaled into 200's after one clear, I don't have another option to run. Can you please make the next character have the powers of slap and tickle because that really seems to be about the level that most complainers want.

You using that combo caused your scaling. You knew the combo was op, if you used it liberally like 4or users, you have the scaling you gave yourself.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Now that I've thought about these changes some more, I think they're a positive step in the right direction, but some of these changes still show the lack of understanding that the devs have with regards to the game in general.

1. Thoress yellow nerf. This was just completely unnecessary - no one used yellow anyways, and even if charged tiles were overpowered on Smite, the conditional ones that yellow made clearly weren't. Now that blue / red were nerfed, yellow builds might be viable, but nerfing it obviously doesn't help there.

2. MQ blue - MNM was the real problem, why was this toned down as well? Mystique was a perfectly balanced character outside of the combo: now that the combo is neutered with MNM (which is definitely a needed change), why is there more residual changes?

These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs. 4or and winfinite became balanced after changes to surge/smite and MNM. Tacking on these nerfs just seems completely unnecessary, and is part of the reason why Demiurge failed so horribly in the past with nerfs such as Sentry: they fixed the root problem, and then decided "hey, lets make sure this is never a problem again by nerfing some more!", which lead to Sentry getting wheelchaired. It's not as bad this time around with MQ not getting wheelchaired nearly as much, but its a common pattern that really should be addressed.

Also regarding rags blue: come on guys. This ability is terrible, and is not going to make Rags remotely playable. I'm disappointed that you decided to make green just a copy of Thor's green. I liked the idea that Rags was a faster, but weaker version of Thor. Having his green be this expensive is a huge letdown.

I agree completely. I'm glad they finally decided to fix IF purple, but I am curious how they didn't realize from the start on how powerful that was. I'm still baffled why they did double nerf mystiques blue. That one was uncalled for when they took the root of the problem out. Hopefully the devs decided against that one.

Rags green is useless tho. BP does 3700 and gives the enemy team 5 ap for 13 black. Rag does 2200 to the enemy team and 400 to his team for 14 green? If anything that move should be 11-12 ap...

TGT I am happy about. The yellow was useless before but it's even more useless. The blue was a much needed nerf and they fixed that somewhat by adding a stronger base to the red.

Overall, they did a good job, but remove the mystique double nerf please. At least consider it.

Unknown

I for one love seeing updates to existing characters -- I would love to see numbers tweaked on a more regular basis across the board.

Sentry for example was clearly OVERnerfed, and now is quite bad. A lot of early heroes (IM40 I'm looking at you) would probably be quite good with a few numeric tweaks. Let's refresh numbers more often! Buffs AND nerfs!

mags1587

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Now that I've thought about these changes some more, I think they're a positive step in the right direction, but some of these changes still show the lack of understanding that the devs have with regards to the game in general.

1. Thoress yellow nerf. This was just completely unnecessary - no one used yellow anyways, and even if charged tiles were overpowered on Smite, the conditional ones that yellow made clearly weren't. Now that blue / red were nerfed, yellow builds might be viable, but nerfing it obviously doesn't help there.

2. MQ blue - MNM was the real problem, why was this toned down as well? Mystique was a perfectly balanced character outside of the combo: now that the combo is neutered with MNM (which is definitely a needed change), why is there more residual changes?

These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs. 4or and winfinite became balanced after changes to surge/smite and MNM. Tacking on these nerfs just seems completely unnecessary, and is part of the reason why Demiurge failed so horribly in the past with nerfs such as Sentry: they fixed the root problem, and then decided "hey, lets make sure this is never a problem again by nerfing some more!", which lead to Sentry getting wheelchaired. It's not as bad this time around with MQ not getting wheelchaired nearly as much, but its a common pattern that really should be addressed.

Also regarding rags blue: come on guys. This ability is terrible, and is not going to make Rags remotely playable. I'm disappointed that you decided to make green just a copy of Thor's green. I liked the idea that Rags was a faster, but weaker version of Thor. Having his green be this expensive is a huge letdown.

I agree with all of the above. I expected some changes to some of these characters, but it does feel like you've gone too far. Why change 4* Thor's yellow? Even if you reduced the number of tiles it could change to reduce the possible number of charged tiles on the board, why lessen the damage when maxed as well? And yes, by changing both mnMags and Mystique, it does seem like an over-nerf. It almost seems like you only considered the changes when the characters were used together and not how they played when they were on their own.

Also, when are you going to re-examine scaling? There is no way to consistently beat 395 teams without broken combos or a lot of luck. I remember that the maximum level characters could scale to in PvE was initially increased from 270 to 395 to deal with the broken combos of the time (Spidey and cMags). Except you keep balancing the broken characters/combos but you leave the 395 teams for us to deal with. That isn't fair. It simply isn't fun to play the game anymore when scaling gets that high. Why can't you move the cap back down to 270? Enemies will still be plenty dangerous at that level to those with high-level rosters, especially the enemies that usually show up in PvE.

KrazyKeylime

the hate levels are reaching over 9000

Logia

I'm rather confused on why Thor was nerfed while the much stronger xforce was left alone.

She's still usable, but now blue is completely garbage before 5 covers. Before it became okay at 3. Which I guess is now as strong as it'll ever get. I just bought the third blue but now I'm not sure if I even bother spending HP on another.

Not to mention that nerfing her yellow is completely bizarre. No one ever used it so you made it worse?

SnowcaTT

ark123 wrote:

Wow, this is clumsy.
Really, you're nerf in characters you didn't release and characters you barely have? Are you really sure anyone will ever buy covers for a new character after this?

I'd been holding off buying 4hor until an answer was out there: either nerfing her or saying definitively that 4*'s -should- be stronger than 3*'s.

But then they keep releasing week 4*'s. I guess they had to Nerf or else no one would buy Charles

That also answers my question about having to buy or try for 4*'s....not much reason at all. Certainly no reason to drop money on those covers, since 3*'s come much easier and should be almost as powerful, and strong 4*'s will get nerfed. I suppose they couldn't nerf both 4hor and X-force on the same day.....

NorthernPolarity

Another tidbit regarding thor yellow: the charge tiles weren't even guaranteed. They were conditional on removing special tiles that may or may not be on the board, so you might not have even gotten 5 tiles. Ugh.

rbdragon

NorthernPolarity wrote:

some of these changes still show the lack of understanding that the devs have with regards to the game in general.

This and many other aspects of this game (The Hunt for starters)...I couldn't agree more with this statement.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Also regarding rags blue: come on guys. This ability is terrible, and is not going to make Rags remotely playable. I'm disappointed that you decided to make green just a copy of Thor's green. I liked the idea that Rags was a faster, but weaker version of Thor. Having his green be this expensive is a huge letdown.

Unless it's true healing (which it obviously isn't), who's going to use this power? All that waiting and this is the best they came up with? Doesn't exactly fill me with hope for IW if she ever actually does get rebalanced....

This thread isn't Coming Soon: Character Updates!
It should be Coming Soon: Character Updates

KrazyKeylime

The_Valeyard wrote:

ricin wrote:

Well, since you have decided to tinykitty over 3* people using Mystique MMags combo (I have no max Xforce or Goddess Thor) in PVE. Will you drop the stupid tinykitty scaling that has been put into effect? When I start a PVE and nodes are already scaled into 200's after one clear, I don't have another option to run. Can you please make the next character have the powers of slap and tickle because that really seems to be about the level that most complainers want.

You using that combo caused your scaling. You knew the combo was op, if you used it liberally like 4or users, you have the scaling you gave yourself.

that is like telling them that they should lose more often cause they deserve to, and that finding a way to advance deserves righteous retribution

Unknown

I don't have much to say except the change to 2*Magneto really bums me out. I've used the Mystique combo a few times and while effective, is way too long to use on a regular basis. I try to keep my play sessions short and clearing an entire PVE sub with that combo can take a long time, especially with scaling going up quite a bit. I think her change would affect it enough that the combo would be much less reliable and less tenable to use regularly...

And with that in mind, his change hurts me in PVP with my play style. I usually start about 90 minutes prior to an event closing and use that combo to climb fast. With the seed teams and initial low level teams, I can clear those in 3-4 turns with a blue/purple boost. Then I switch to another decent 2* team and can easily (usually) get to the 400 pts reward with plenty of time remaining (usually takes about 60 minutes or less to hit that level). Rarely do I ever get close to the top 100 anymore and at 400-450 points is where I hit the wall. With speed being the essence of my strategy, I'll have to change that. My other option is to just minimize my involvement with PVP, which is probably what will happen given my roster not being able to compete for more in those events...

Unknown

I'm glad they did this now, because I was debating buying covers for Goddess Thor and now I don't think I'm going to. Most of these were probably inevitable though, and since I didn't use the broken combo, I'm not too upset about it. Especially since I have a 5/3/5 Mystique.

I will say this to the devs: this would be a really good time to announce buffs to Invisible Woman and Beast.

Unknown

I get that charge tiles are awesome and Power Surge was awesome but Striking Distance already sucked. It needs way WAY more damage to justify a 12 cost, especially now that all Thor's powers got harder to fuel thanks to the change to Power Surge. Instead you REDUCE it's 5 cover damage? And 5 covers to convert CD tiles? Seriously? Do you just hate everyone who had a 4/4/5 build before?

I can't even count the number of times I've thrown Striking Distance and converted exactly 0 charge tiles. Both Smite and Power Surge add their charge tiles automatically, so their creation being factored into power cost makes sense. Striking Distance is too situational for the charge tiles, so the cost should be reduced or the damage needs increased. I'd say about double the damage, or a cost of 6 or 7.

On to Ragnarok. I get that he's a Thor knockoff, but Godlike Power cost too much for Call the Storm lite. Does 2200ish damage less than CtS, causes team damage, and destroys a random column for no reason other than tying in the old version. I'm going to assume it's the same as Cyclops and those tiles don't actually do damage, and even if they did that's like 500 damage maybe of the 2200 deficit to make this power worth 14. Feels a lot more like a 10.

Here's how you know Godlike Power is over costed: Put Thor and Ragnarok on the same team, and just use Lightning Rod to fuel Thor's Call the Storm. Why would you ever use Godlike Power? If playing against Rags, just let him take the blue, then take the charge tiles to fuel Thor.

SnowcaTT

The_Valeyard wrote:

ricin wrote:

Well, since you have decided to tinykitty over 3* people using Mystique MMags combo (I have no max Xforce or Goddess Thor) in PVE. Will you drop the stupid tinykitty scaling that has been put into effect? When I start a PVE and nodes are already scaled into 200's after one clear, I don't have another option to run. Can you please make the next character have the powers of slap and tickle because that really seems to be about the level that most complainers want.

You using that combo caused your scaling. You knew the combo was op, if you used it liberally like 4or users, you have the scaling you gave yourself.

Nope. There were goon nodes that would wipe my 250 X-force with other teams but I could take out with a 0/5/4 Mystique + MMags. Times I used that may have been 1/10th of the nodes at the most - wouldn't have greatly effected scaling. Oh, and often that node that I took out was impossible the first time. Scaling is out of control, and is one reason I've almost completely dropped PVE.

WilsonFisk

Are there going to be actual HP refunds for the characters and not just your **** buy backs? I dropped 5k hp on iron fist less than a week ago, I dropped over 10k hp to max 4hor. Giving me 2500hp as a buy back doesn't work!

The Nerfs are what they are, but screwing over your customers that spent Hp on relatively new characters is wrong.

Jathro

Thanks for leaving Rag's red alone - at least he has one useful ability