*** Daredevil (Man Without Fear) ***

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  • mags1587mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    Clint wrote:
    Man in this 3rd Sub they showcase just how much DD blows yet again. At least this time he isnt required on a 3 goon fight, instead you square off against Juggernaut who trashes his trap tiles every time he gets 6 green.

    Every time I am somewhat tempted to level DD up, I do another even where he is utterly terrible.

    Once in that fight, Juggernaut actually triggered one of DD's traps with a cascade match after he got 6 green. Stunned him and let me finish him off with ease. Only happened the once, though. Every other time Juggernaut disarmed the traps.
  • The traps shouldn't get overwritten by strike tiles and similar abilities. It was hilarious that the first event to showcase Daredevil was full of all-goon matches which don't make tile matches and matches featuring Daken who overwrites the red trap easily, because it showed Daredevil at his most useless. OK to have the traps destroyed by tile destruction abilities like Storm's, Hulk's and Juggernaut's.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    ^ Oh my, completely OP then. Worse than Rag + GSBW in the olden days. I think we need to be able to place traps (ditto for mHawkeye, are Daredevil and mHawkeye twins separated at birth?), and then the viability will rise significantly already.
  • My 3 yr old son too. HULK SMASH! After watching Phineas and Ferb Marvel series icon_e_biggrin.gif
    bahukma wrote:
    I know mine is.

    My son is 2.5 and we've already watched the original Trilogy together. I routinely quiz him on different Star Wars characters (Superheroes too).
    Whenever I say "who's this?" pointing at the esteemed Admiral Ackbar his response is "Eekbar! Iss trap!"

    I imagine that must give you the same parental nerd pride I get when my three year old is on the playground and says "I'm the Hulk." Then he proceeds to jump around repeatedly yelling "Hulk Smash!"
  • In thinking over DD'S ability spread, ultimately it becomes folly to put 5 into red. His best build will end up being 5/5/3 because being heavily invested into red only really pays off in the (very) rare instance that it gets activated. With way too many ways for red to be cancelled out compared to his other two abilites, he instead becomes a support character who helps with damage (if even needed), not a damage dealer who has some supporting abilities.

    With his blue and purple maxed, he can more easily be placed into a team without competing for those colors, eg. Patch, Punisher, and DD team comp. Also, with the upcoming changes to Spidey and C. Mags, you may see more use out of the long term stun from DD'S blue, or the purples ap shutdown.

    Is DD a great character? No, the mechanic he utilizes leaves something to be desired, but he can fill a role for colors if needed, being a 3* version somewhat of M. Black Widow.
  • Emeryt wrote:
    Hipothetical situation:
    Daredevil in both teams. All other heroes dead. enemy matches blue tiles and is stunned for 6turns. I then match blue and I'm stunned.

    What happens now? icon_e_biggrin.gif
    If you are stunned for 6 turns as well, it would do back and forth with no moves and your opponent would continue. You would have 1 turn left to get out of stun, so you would continue as well. It would be like noone was stunned. If your opponent stunned you for less than 6 turns though, you would return to game first.
  • InfraredInfrared Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    I was using CMag in the simulation hard mode vs Daredeil, Venom & Analyst. Daredevil was spamming ambushes from the free red AP he gets from Analyst. In two separate battles my Magneto did magnetic translocation, and both times he took a fatal crotch slam to the face immediately after.

    I think usually translocation does so much damage that it downs anyone instantly, along with any traps they have set. But at lvl 230 Daredevil can survive, along with his traps. Or maybe I was just twice unlucky that the translocation didn't move the trap, but brought other red tiles next to it instead it?
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Infrared wrote:
    I was using CMag in the simulation hard mode vs Daredeil, Venom & Analyst. Daredevil was spamming ambushes from the free red AP he gets from Analyst. In two separate battles my Magneto did magnetic translocation, and both times he took a fatal crotch slam to the face immediately after.

    I think usually translocation does so much damage that it downs anyone instantly, along with any traps they have set. But at lvl 230 Daredevil can survive, along with his traps. Or maybe I was just twice unlucky that the translocation didn't move the trap, but brought other red tiles next to it instead it?
    I wouldn't run board shuffling (not tile destroying types) against DD. Went Daken-mStorm-Spidey against that trio myself, since both Daken and mStorm laugh at Daredevil. Spidey was there as safety net in case Venom acquired black, well and also Daken and Storm are a bit squishy against lvl 230s, but Spidey wasn't needed much so you can run any other stunner of your choice, or better yet, a nuker (although Daken's strike tiles + Storm's attack tiles do nice damage for a 1* star and a 2 ability 2** star). The map is Jungle, this invites you to use mStorm, so you will have any AP you might want.

    Also you might want to take out Analyst first, she won't feed Venom and Daredevil is she's dead and I also noticed that many times if I attack the one goon first, the goon spends the generated AP on CD abilities, which are always easier to deal with than abilities, even such handicapped ones as Ambush.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Skyedyne wrote:
    In thinking over DD'S ability spread, ultimately it becomes folly to put 5 into red. His best build will end up being 5/5/3 because being heavily invested into red only really pays off in the (very) rare instance that it gets activated. With way too many ways for red to be cancelled out compared to his other two abilites, he instead becomes a support character who helps with damage (if even needed), not a damage dealer who has some supporting abilities.

    With his blue and purple maxed, he can more easily be placed into a team without competing for those colors, eg. Patch, Punisher, and DD team comp. Also, with the upcoming changes to Spidey and C. Mags, you may see more use out of the long term stun from DD'S blue, or the purples ap shutdown.

    Is DD a great character? No, the mechanic he utilizes leaves something to be desired, but he can fill a role for colors if needed, being a 3* version somewhat of M. Black Widow.
    Those are good points by the way, but most people want a reliable stun, which DD's blue definitely isn't. Even if Spidey gets nerfed to oblivion (not likely), mHawkeye or mBW's stun will still be much better than DD's, not to mention cStorm. Oh yeah there's also Cap. I would spec Daredevil only as 5-3-5 myself, since I won't ever use DD's blue unless I have no other options left.
  • DrNitromanDrNitroman Posts: 966 Critical Contributor
    I just won a match in PvE with DD in the simulator.

    Magneto matched 3 red tiles with two traps.
    I don't know if it was confirmed or not in the thread, but I can say that DD made two successive kicks, killing cMag then GSBW in a row (node 09)... and winning a fifth red DD cover for me as progession reward in the simulator. icon_e_smile.gif

    Obviously, such a double trap trigerring is useless with blue tiles (that does not double the number of turns for the stun). But with the red tiles i's impressive!

    Playing with DD is random. Increasing effectiveness requires long-lasting fights (so robust characters) and requires to spam traps of all colors: that means that his lethal red kick doesn't really cost 7AP but rather two or three times the original cost...
  • InfraredInfrared Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    Experimented a bit more with C.Magneto vs Daredevil.

    I am 90% sure now that Magnetic Translocation neither triggers nor disarms DD's traps. But shuffling the tiles can result in matches, and those can trigger traps. Of course, if the move does enough damage to down DD, that will disarm all his traps.

    And I am 100% sure that Magnetic Field disarms traps when you place the protect tile on the trap itself. But if the protect tile causes a match, that match may trigger a trap in one of the neighbouring tiles.

    Magnetized Projectile will disarm traps if it destroys the trapped tile itself, but the resulting cascade may cause matches with other trapped tiles.
  • Okay, thanks for the advice, Lawlypop and guys.

    I have finally decided to go 5/3/5 for my Daredevil

    5 in red is a must have. The damage is too good to pass up.

    Initially, I wanted to go 4/4/* on the first two powers, seeing how I am unlikely to use either, might as well even them out.

    However, after careful consideration, I might as well get one more slightly more usable power, at the expense of making the less useful power even more useless. Better to have 1 slightly useful power and one useless power, than 2 almost useless powers.

    That's my reasoning.

    My decision now, 5/3/5.

    The purple is very expensive and risky, but it's better than Blue, which is unlikely to stun the target as and when you need it. Still, when you are down to that one last opponent, Blue does become infinitely more useful, though no more than Spidey of course.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah it really comes down to if's with this guy and considering your really are only going to play him in PvE it probably doesn't matter the build. Here are the questions I have as to the "optimal" build yes 5 red, and in order to get him fully we know at least 3 in the other colors so at minimum we have

    3/3/5. So what to do with the other 2 points.

    What are the odds an enviornmental tile gets matched over a blue or vice-versa? That is the first question I ask myself. If the odds are the exact same, then yes I think

    5/3/5 is probably the better build as there's not a whole lot of difference in stunning 4 turns, or 5 turns or 6 turns.

    Now, in a PvP enviornment though I feel that blue would have a higher rate of being matched by an opponent over enviornmental which makes me want to rethink my strategy and sometimes 4 turns isn't enough to kill an opponent, and do I need 6 AP of every color, or would 5 be enough?

    I think with 100% certainty that 5 in blue is way overkill, so that leaves only 2 "optimal" builds. 4/4/5 or 5/3/5.

    This is my line of thinking. If you plan on playing Daredevil in PvP I feel 4/4/5 is the more optimal build because you won't see players matching very many enviornmental tiles, in fact you could argue 3/5/5 is superior pvp, but again, I think a 6 turn stun is overkill. However, in PvE where the AI loves to match Enviro tiles, I think 5/3/5 is probably the superior build since stealing 6 AP, is going to serve you better than stunning for more turns.

    My synopsis.

    PvE--5/3/5 although 4/4/5 is fine
    PvP--4/4/5 although 3/5/5 is fine
  • ?? The AI is the AI, it matches enviro tiles in PVE or PVP, a lot. Particular in the forest or the crit tank. I've seen it in tourneys just give up and start shooting for 50 forest tiles, and not as a last resort either, it's weird.

    That said it definitely matches those tiles less than it would for red or blue, since most teams are comprised of OBW and/or Thor, or Patch + Spidey. 5/3/5 is the best build to maximize all the benefits imo. You might only get one radar sense during the match, compared to OBW who can easily aggressive recon multiple times, so make it steal as much as possible.
  • ToryToryToryTory Age Unconfirmed Posts: 77 Match Maker
    Does anyone have a maxed DD who wouldn't mind providing their experience on his performance? I love DD. I have tons of his comics. I was so thrilled he when he was released on mpq. After horrendous field experiences with my lowbie DD I just gave up.

    Apart from traps being extremely buggy, what would you recommend in changing? I'd like to get a petition to turn this extremely under performing hero to, yes, even remotely usable.

    Personally I like the trap concept but should be limited to one skill. There are lots of ways, as many have pointed out, to spice him up. As of right now though he's used less than my paper weight at home. icon_evil.gif
  • I like him and want to develop him as a defensive specialist but he is currently fourth on my list for iso after Psylocke, Black Panther and Grey Suit BW. And that list is constantly changing with new characters being introduced and without a change Daredevil can only go lower.

    I'm really curious how a team of the Hood, Modern Thor and Daredevil would do on defense.
  • ToryTory wrote:
    Does anyone have a maxed DD who wouldn't mind providing their experience on his performance? I love DD. I have tons of his comics. I was so thrilled he when he was released on mpq. After horrendous field experiences with my lowbie DD I just gave up.

    Apart from traps being extremely buggy, what would you recommend in changing? I'd like to get a petition to turn this extremely under performing hero to, yes, even remotely usable.

    Personally I like the trap concept but should be limited to one skill. There are lots of ways, as many have pointed out, to spice him up. As of right now though he's used less than my paper weight at home. icon_evil.gif

    I've been thinking about all the "standard" suggestions - make the purple on something that's not environment, make the traps not killed by overwriting, and you know what just might make DD playable? Not notifying the attacking player of when he uses a power on defense
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    But, you can always see enemy AP on the Steam version, it's noticeable when enemy symbols suddenly are no longer flashing.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Viorala wrote:
    ?? The AI is the AI, it matches enviro tiles in PVE or PVP, a lot. Particular in the forest or the crit tank. I've seen it in tourneys just give up and start shooting for 50 forest tiles, and not as a last resort either, it's weird.

    That said it definitely matches those tiles less than it would for red or blue, since most teams are comprised of OBW and/or Thor, or Patch + Spidey. 5/3/5 is the best build to maximize all the benefits imo. You might only get one radar sense during the match, compared to OBW who can easily aggressive recon multiple times, so make it steal as much as possible.

    I was referring to defense, a player going against my DD in PvP is more likely to match blue than Enviro so I can see purple being more of a waste in PvP since you are less likely to get another player to match it.
  • Oh, haha. I believe I had what is commonly referred to as "a brain fart."
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