Please, D3...no more 12 hour sub events.

RWTDBurn

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

- Lots of ISO to be made, especially with each sub having a 500 or 1k ISO bonus node. Personally, I hate having to hit a node over and over again for 20 ISO on those long subs.
Not sure why the 12 hour limit makes a difference. In many ways you *lose* ISO since they're not around long enough for you to get that 20 ISO over and over. It maybe *feels* like you're earning more since it comes in quicker, but you're really not.

- Lots of recruit tokens to be earned, especially with 2 subs at a time. 8 recruit tokens a day is nothing to sneeze at.
Again, you'd still earn those tokens if the node lasted 24 hours. Just because it comes in more frequently doesn't mean you're earning more of them.

- Easy to make 50-100HP each day by placing well.
Again...this wouldn't change if they lasted longer.

- If there is a node that completely sucks (like say Ares/Jugs/Ragnog at level 200+) you know it's going to be go in 12 hours or less.
This part I can't argue with. 12 hours means the scaling hasn't gone from level 150 to level 250 by the end giving you an insane hill to climb with all the good nodes being way too powerful to reasonably take down repeatedly.

- If you miss grind time it's not the end of the world. You'll have several more chances to rank high in a sub for rewards.
Ehhh, it's been difficult clawing back a placement in this event after missing a few grind times due to life and such.

First and foremost, I wasn't trying to make an argument that 12 hour is better than 24 hours. I'm cool with either one, I was just stating a few of the things I do like about the 12 hour subs. That being said, I must disagree with a few of the things you said.

1. 12 hour subs makes a difference in ISO you can earn because you have twice as many nodes to hit within a 24 hour period, hence twice as much ISO that can be earned in a 24 hour period. And no, it doesn't "feel" like I'm getting more ISO, I am without a doubt getting more. I clear all the rewards on 3/4 or more of the nodes in each sub and then I also make sure to at least hit the node until I claim the top value ISO reward. Granted I'm sitting top 10 in the event so I'm hitting these nodes more than most people. As stated above though, I wasn't arguing which is a better time period, I was just stating why I personally like these short subs.

2. No, I am getting 8 recruit tokens every 24 hours. If these were 24 hour subs, I'd only be getting 4.

3. Once again, if you have 2 events versus 1 event in a 24 hour period, you stand the chance to make twice as much HP during that time. Unless of course the rewards are doubled for the 24 hour subs, then they would obviously be equal.

4. I completely agree it can be hard to grind your way back into the main, but I was referring to the subs and subs alone. With a sub running every 12 hours, it's easier to pick one to focus on and rank high in that one.

Perhaps we are not viewing this the same. I'm looking at these by how much HP, ISO, and recruit tokens I can make in 1 day. Perhaps you're looking at it as an entire event and comparing a 3 1/2 day event made up with 12 hour subs versus a 7 day event with 24 hour subs? That's the only way I could see your arguments as their values being the same.

Unknown

RWTDBurn wrote:

Perhaps we are not viewing this the same. I'm looking at these by how much HP, ISO, and recruit tokens I can make in 1 day. Perhaps you're looking at it as an entire event and comparing a 3 1/2 day event made up with 12 hour subs versus a 7 day event with 24 hour subs? That's the only way I could see your arguments as their values being the same.

I think this one of the big ways people are taking past each other. Some are looking at it as far as reward vs. time, others reward vs. effort.

Unknown

Sorry, I seriously disagree with the OP. I'm loving the 12 hour sub events, the amount of cards I've received over the few short days have been awesome. Especially since its now become pretty much impossible for me to place in the 100 in a PvP event (though granted my feelings towards PvP may one day change when I actually have some leveled 3*s).

SnowcaTT

I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I like 12 hour subs.

Better than 36 hours - I know exactly when I'll have to grind, it isn't going back and forth.

More rewards (although it is a bummer they reduced already low HP so much here), more tokens (and....one 3* from them so far, no surprise. A bit more ISO I guess.)

Nice structure, honestly. Hit them any time in the first three hours, grind them again in the last hour. I've been playing every sub exactly twice, and not worrying about the "ideal" unrealistic 0/8/4 "clear", since it will take you possibly an hour the first time and more to grind it later on - once to start and grinding at the end has done pretty well for me.

My time (PVE slice 4, almost always) is 10am/10pm for me (MST), which means I'm grinding at 7-8am (before work) and 9-10pm (before bed - yeah, you have kids). The hardest part is finding time during the work day to hit that 10am initial run - but finding time once is sooooo much better than trying to find it 2-3 times when it was 3 hour refreshes.

If talking about 36 hour subs though: I'm all on board with getting rid of those. 24 is nice so you "pick" your grind end time. 36 is the worst of all worlds - at least with 12 they don't drag on and you get 3x the rewards (theoretically).

RWTDBurn

SnowcaTT wrote:

I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I like 12 hour subs.

Better than 36 hours - I know exactly when I'll have to grind, it isn't going back and forth.

More rewards (although it is a bummer they reduced already low HP so much here), more tokens (and....one 3* from them so far, no surprise. A bit more ISO I guess.)

Nice structure, honestly. Hit them any time in the first three hours, grind them again in the last hour. I've been playing every sub exactly twice, and not worrying about the "ideal" unrealistic 0/8/4 "clear", since it will take you possibly an hour the first time and more to grind it later on - once to start and grinding at the end has done pretty well for me.

My time (PVE slice 4, almost always) is 10am/10pm for me (MST), which means I'm grinding at 7-8am (before work) and 9-10pm (before bed - yeah, you have kids). The hardest part is finding time during the work day to hit that 10am initial run - but finding time once is sooooo much better than trying to find it 2-3 times when it was 3 hour refreshes.

If talking about 36 hour subs though: I'm all on board with getting rid of those. 24 is nice so you "pick" your grind end time. 36 is the worst of all worlds - at least with 12 they don't drag on and you get 3x the rewards (theoretically).

Agreed on the 36 hour subs. I'm cool with 12 hour or 24 hour, but 36 hour subs are so unrewarding. That's when the game really feels like a grind to me.

simonsez

I'd also like to express my support for 12 hour subs, simply because the rewards are so frequent. The roster slot will pay for itself. Granted, I'd enjoy it more if I wasn't trying for a high ranking, but that could be said regardless of sub length.

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

slidecage wrote:

Guess what people no one is forcing you to play the PVE dont like 12 HOUR THEN DONT PLAY SIMPLE AS THAT

Excellent idea, then I don't get Cyclops and am at a disadvantage for the next PvE!

I don't see why the "Don't like it, don't do it" argument is meant to end all arguments. I don't like it so I'm telling D3 about it. If I don't do them I'll lose out and this will have a knock-on effect.

If you don't want to play like that then you need to learn to play smarter. I knew that I didn't have the time or desire to play double 12 hour subs for 4.5 days. So I waited, joined during the third double set of subs and played each node for seven subs one time each, whenever I managed to carve out a few minutes to play. I was in 55th this morning and had a little extra time to play a few extra nodes today and am now in 50th with 24 hours to go.

My expectations were for one cover, but if extremely lazy play can get me on the cusp of 2 covers, that's a win in my book. I am only going to grind when it is really worth something (Green XF, 5th Yellow Thor, etc) not for a brand new character that I won't use for months, if ever.

Dragon_Nexus

I want to clarify my position a little, some people are bringing up 8 hour compared to 2.5 hour refreshes.
I want to say I'm *completely* in favour of 8 hour refreshes. I most definitely do not want that to go away. It needs to stay forever, it's a perfect amount of time because on a long sub event I can do it right before I go to sleep and the timer will have nearly ended when I wake up. Alternately I can do each node twice so they'll be done when I'm back from work.

Today, however, I had a 4:00pm to 10:00pm shift. I'd set my end time for 5am because I'm normally up until 4am anyway. I'm a night owl.
So I grind before bed (stop sniggering at the back) and the event ends an hour after I've gone to bed. When I wake up about 1pm I go get something to eat, I enjoy that and then I have maybe 1-2 hours to grind down this new sub event I'd been completely ignoring for 8 hours before I go to work. Then I get home and need to grind down this other sub event before I go to bed. And I have to do this for two sub events.

I enjoy doing a clear, coming back in 8 hours, doing another clear and so on until it's ready to end, then I grind it all down as far as possible and do a single run of the new sub. I enjoyed that, it was fun. I could wait a little bit in between refreshes and do some PvP and I'd been doing better in PvP recently than when 2.5 hour coolowns happened.

Now the sub events are needing to be ground down so frequently I've been neglecting PvP because my guys are beaten to hell by the time the sub event's ending.

Some might say it's my fault for choosing a 5am end time, and in hindsight had I known the sub events would be 12 hours long I probably would have chosen a different time.
Hulk worked out the same way, it felt good to get rewarded so frequently but you have to pour a lot of concentrated effort into each sub event *every day*. There's no down time from it if you want to get a good enough score.

I figured top 50 would be an easy goal to aim for, but I'm currently struggling to stay in the top 150 because I'm missing out on so much game time.

Unknown

One thing I'd like to add - if some of the subs are going to end at a time other than the end time we choose, I really wish they could tell us that ahead of time. The best end time for me is terrible if there are 12 or 36 hour subs.

slidecage

Ben Grimm wrote:

One thing I'd like to add - if some of the subs are going to end at a time other than the end time we choose, I really wish they could tell us that ahead of time. The best end time for me is terrible if there are 12 or 36 hour subs.

there will always have to be a 12 or 36 hour nod right? Has there ever been a true 24 hour nod though the entire event

Unknown

slidecage wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

One thing I'd like to add - if some of the subs are going to end at a time other than the end time we choose, I really wish they could tell us that ahead of time. The best end time for me is terrible if there are 12 or 36 hour subs.

there will always have to be a 12 or 36 hour nod right? Has there ever been a true 24 hour nod though the entire event

The only reason this is true is because the events were made before they introduced the ability to choose your time slice. It idea was to make it "fair" for everyone by flipping the end times by 12 hours half way through events or so. Now that everyone gets to pick a time zone friendly end time there's no reason for this to be the case anymore, and a 24 hour time cycle is probably way more reasonable for people with anything resembling a normal schedule.

Or at least it seems like it would be. My schedule is anything but normal, so I wouldn't know. The 12 hour subs are actually just fine for me. I've only been playing PvE twice a day and doing very well.

Unknown

Thugpatrol wrote:

slidecage wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

One thing I'd like to add - if some of the subs are going to end at a time other than the end time we choose, I really wish they could tell us that ahead of time. The best end time for me is terrible if there are 12 or 36 hour subs.

there will always have to be a 12 or 36 hour nod right? Has there ever been a true 24 hour nod though the entire event

The only reason this is true is because the events were made before they introduced the ability to choose your time slice. It idea was to make it "fair" for everyone by flipping the end times by 12 hours half way through events or so. Now that everyone gets to pick a time zone friendly end time there's no reason for this to be the case anymore, and a 24 hour time cycle is probably way more reasonable for people with anything resembling a normal schedule.

Or at least it seems like it would be. My schedule is anything but normal, so I wouldn't know. The 12 hour subs are actually just fine for me. I've only been playing PvE twice a day and doing very well.

Yeah, if you look at virtually every event out there they tend to have half of the events in one ending time and the other half in that time + 12 hours to balance out the timezone advantage, but this is an artifact of the past that is no longer needed. Instead this just means no matter what time slice you pick you'll still be unable to make half of the sub endings, assuming that people don't have a schedule where they can easily accomodate two ending times separated by 12 hours. I'm guessing they just haven't gotten around revamping them. Some of the events might turn out to be longer/shorter but I think that's a small price to pay. For example Simulator Basic is usually 7.5 days with 3X2.5 day subs. I don't think anyone will have some fundamental objection if it's changed to 3X2 day subs. Iso 8 is probably an interesting one because at the original length, the event would go on for 10 days and that's probably a bit too long. Perhaps Iso 8 Brotherhood should be made into some kind of persistent content instead that resets monthly for a small upfront price that you can grind for progression. It's a good event but 10 days is a bit too long and the compressed 12H schedule is a bit too hardcore. Same with The Hulk where the event would probably go on for too long at 24H per sub but 12H would be too compressed.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Yeah, if you look at virtually every event out there they tend to have half of the events in one ending time and the other half in that time + 12 hours to balance out the timezone advantage, but this is an artifact of the past that is no longer needed. Instead this just means no matter what time slice you pick you'll still be unable to make half of the sub endings, assuming that people don't have a schedule where they can easily accomodate two ending times separated by 12 hours. I'm guessing they just haven't gotten around revamping them. Some of the events might turn out to be longer/shorter but I think that's a small price to pay. For example Simulator Basic is usually 7.5 days with 3X2.5 day subs. I don't think anyone will have some fundamental objection if it's changed to 3X2 day subs. Iso 8 is probably an interesting one because at the original length, the event would go on for 10 days and that's probably a bit too long. Perhaps Iso 8 Brotherhood should be made into some kind of persistent content instead that resets monthly for a small upfront price that you can grind for progression. It's a good event but 10 days is a bit too long and the compressed 12H schedule is a bit too hardcore. Same with The Hulk where the event would probably go on for too long at 24H per sub but 12H would be too compressed.

But with the Hulk, we really don't need to go back to all the subs a second time. It's not like the storyline is fresh. They could move all the subs to 24 hours and only do one pass of them. You could do the same thing with this one. Even without the repeating subs, there is still a lot of repetition.

Both events could easily we 4-6 day events with double 24 hour subs.

Unknown

With 8 hour refreshes, I like the 12 hour subs more than the 36 hours. Something inevitably comes up during a day and half. With 12 hours, it's not hard to hit a sub close to optimal, and I can always ignore a sub if need be.

Unknown

I have no problem with this format. I love the fact that I could get 4 event tokens and 4 heroic tokens a day from PVE (If you have a Top250 alliance) and the ISO is really good as well. I decided I don't need the extra Cyclops covers because even if he's good im still looking to get my core PVP team ready. Cyclops will take me months to level. I've been hitting all the refreshes (2 of them) and then playing here and there in the final 2 hours. This has guaranteed me a Top100 in each sub and I'm ranked 84th in the main. I'll gladly take my 1 Cyclops for essentials in the next PVE.

On the other hand, the recruit tokens have given me the extra RARE cover once in a blue moon. It's still a cover so I really am not complaining. I can see D3 is really trying to help with the transition. They aren't spoon feeding us, but they are making it somewhat easier.

And I have also realized that for the Hard Sub Events you don't even need to do full clears twice as people are really staying away from them. I've been doing one clear then some games here and there and still getting a top 100 finish.

Unknown

I'll make the same suggestion again regarding start times being different from end times.

Most players select their time slice in PVE based on that event's end time. However, the events usually begin at a time that is 12 hours off of the end time i.e. 1pm end time starts at 1am. Will something be done so that entry time does have such a significant influence on PVE placement given that players choose based on convenient end times?

For example, the first sub has massive rubberband so that regardless of when you start the PVE. That way, if you start during the 1st sub, you'll have the opportunity to be in just as good contention with some one that was able to start right when the 1st sub commenced even if you were not able to join the sub until 12 hours later. Obviously, come the second sub, rubberband would revert back to the way it is now.

Unknown

This PVE has been one of the easiest top 10 I've done. 12h subs are fine as long as people could somehow know before hand to expect that. 8h refreshes are great too. Overall had a good experience with the cyclops PVE.

KrazyKeylime

people are complaining of all the grinding? really this was a chill event not having to go back every 3 hours is soooooo much better. sure you mess up show up late loosing some points or setting up optimal grind only to be foiled for the last intense grid because of driving or stuck with what ever life threw at you. sure your not going to place first but many people were struggling to make perfect grinds 30th place is still strong. remember only one person places first. some time life is kind other times not so much. i hit most of my marks, in some events the player that went with the less optimal wooo whoo i'm first @ 30 min in got more points then my set up for perfect grind cause i couldn't close the deal. the good thing is that i got all my sleep and was productive at work and spent time with the family. and still got cyclops with 2 covers. love 8 hours refreshers.
but i also have a second account on steam ( well first account was on steam, second on mobile) he is gonna be lucky to get cyclops. Cheers

rednailz

Love 12 hour subs and 8 hour refresh. Had so much more time than usual over the weekend, and had no issues getting my event tokens at the end of every sub and staying within my goal for placement on teh event. Just requires slightly different math on when to hit what and how often. It leads to less time grinding and more tokens. Although I agree the final grind and new grind with new subs gets long, but then you can actually put the game down for a few hours, which is a nice change.

6.5 day events.....won't be playing any more of those unless it's a real good prize, or a release of one of my fave marvel people. The current grind for cyclops has gone on long enough IMO. New charecter release every 2 weeks and grind for the charecter lasts a week. The math on that is less interest in pve for me.

Unknown

Positive aspects :

Lots of Iso, supposedly less grinding, BUT

Negative aspects :

Crazy scaling for bigger rosters, so you can't grind crazily at the end of each node, and you end up : Top 50 and no way you can score Top 10 anymore if your scaling is bad.

My worst ranking ever for a new character. But also the cheapest event for me, since I hardly spent anything on boosts and health packs.

The same competitive PvEs over and over again become really boring. It's high time for a change, and no more competition.

I wouldn't mind scoring high points to get the covers, and work hard, but this competition is draining.