A couple upcoming changes to PvP events

Unknown

pumkin wrote:

I just have to vent right now, sorry. 3.5 hours playing, only progressed 300 points. Got almost no reprieve from getting attacked that entire time. I finally gave up when I exited a two minute match worth 12 points only to find I'd been attacked by four guys at once and lost 100 points. And then I wasted a shield because I couldn't bear to have my hard earned points eaten away in 30 minutes, even though I know I no longer have any chance of placing even in the top 10. At 950 points, which is the highest I managed to get, I was getting whacked by guys with 250 points. How could the devs have thought for a second that this was a good idea?! It's not even worth retaliating because they're worth like 10 points. In the space of two hours I got hit more than 10 times by the same freaking guy. For a while, every time I came out of a match he had attacked me again. Seriously, how about you fix some stuff rather than making what was once a fun game into something that is beyond frustrating? I'm actually pissed off right now. By a game. That's supposed to be fun. Somewhere along the line somebody at Demiurge failed miserably in their brainstorming. /rant (probably not)

Unfortunately brainstorming/prediction and reality is different. Then NEED to test these changes on us. This change looks pretty fail, but a somehow necessary - and hopefully temporary - one. Finding the fine balance between cake and frustrating IS difficult.

...anyway, it is a while that I keep saying that making the point loss for one side equal to the point gain of the other is a terrible system, the current matchmaking is just more proof, on a larger scale.

Unknown

Il Palazzo wrote:

pumkin wrote:

I just have to vent right now, sorry. 3.5 hours playing, only progressed 300 points. Got almost no reprieve from getting attacked that entire time. I finally gave up when I exited a two minute match worth 12 points only to find I'd been attacked by four guys at once and lost 100 points. And then I wasted a shield because I couldn't bear to have my hard earned points eaten away in 30 minutes, even though I know I no longer have any chance of placing even in the top 10. At 950 points, which is the highest I managed to get, I was getting whacked by guys with 250 points. How could the devs have thought for a second that this was a good idea?! It's not even worth retaliating because they're worth like 10 points. In the space of two hours I got hit more than 10 times by the same freaking guy. For a while, every time I came out of a match he had attacked me again. Seriously, how about you fix some stuff rather than making what was once a fun game into something that is beyond frustrating? I'm actually pissed off right now. By a game. That's supposed to be fun. Somewhere along the line somebody at Demiurge failed miserably in their brainstorming. /rant (probably not)

Unfortunately brainstorming/prediction and reality is different. Then NEED to test these changes on us. This change looks pretty fail, but a somehow necessary - and hopefully temporary - one. Finding the fine balance between cake and frustrating IS difficult.

...anyway, it is a while that I keep saying that making the point loss for one side equal to the point gain of the other is a terrible system, the current matchmaking is just more proof, on a larger scale.

Fixing the mmr will not get them anymore money. Raising the shield prices and allowing anyone to attack anyone will. Eventually when all the players who were around before the changes quit all they will have is the new players who believe this is how it always was. This will merit less complaining and more profit.

Unknown

I dunno how to progress anymore..
Skip 100x all 0 points..
Somehow i am stuck in noob land where everyone are using lvl 5-15 and giving 0 points..

Imagine that if skipping need a fee.. Come on fix your game before making more $$ grabber..

Unknown

Even if i never came here on this forum, i've been playing this game for more than 2 months.
After reading this thread about changes, i was skeptical. And now after I gave it some thoughts, i am more than skeptical and I will try to explain why.

From what i understand, the bigger change in pvp will be the possibility to challenge players way above our rank.
In my opinion, it will benefit only to players who have high level characters. Why? Because they will have much more chance to be skipped by low level and medium level players.
So even if a player with medium heroes reach a high rank, he will quickly get a target on his back to others medium players and lower rank players who have high level heroes.
Furthermore, players with high level heroes won't have to play long to get high rank, as they will be matched to high rank players.
If you don't have high level character, no mater how long you will play, you will never be able to keep a high rank because all people with about same level will target you and you will be dragged to the middle of the crowd.
So high level players will fight with themselves for the high rank positions, medium will have to stay in the middle, and lower will stay on bottom.
Finally, it will just dig the gab between players.

Unknown

Evilbeavers wrote:

Fixing the mmr will not get them anymore money. Raising the shield prices and allowing anyone to attack anyone will. Eventually when all the players who were around before the changes quit all they will have is the new players who believe this is how it always was. This will merit less complaining and more profit.

I seriously doubt that. For this case even strip-mining type increase is doubtful. And fouls like this leave a permanent dent.

If I were in charge and had access to such excellent and free resource as these forums I' definitely run wild ideas as questions here (possibly camouflaged) to get reasonable feedback on the expected effects. Also would listen way more to suggestions -- even if some claims a 90% bad rate on them the other 10% is golden.

Unknown

Daedalus wrote:

Even if i never came here on this forum, i've been playing this game for more than 2 months.
After reading this thread about changes, i was skeptical. And now after I gave it some thoughts, i am more than skeptical and I will try to explain why.

From what i understand, the bigger change in pvp will be the possibility to challenge players way above our rank.
In my opinion, it will benefit only to players who have high level characters. Why? Because they will have much more chance to be skipped by low level and medium level players.
So even if a player with medium heroes reach a high rank, he will quickly get a target on his back to others medium players and lower rank players who have high level heroes.
Furthermore, players with high level heroes won't have to play long to get high rank, as they will be matched to high rank players.
If you don't have high level character, no mater how long you will play, you will never be able to keep a high rank because all people with about same level will target you and you will be dragged to the middle of the crowd.
So high level players will fight with themselves for the high rank positions, medium will have to stay in the middle, and lower will stay on bottom.
Finally, it will just dig the gab between players.

Just to fill you in, the devs have previously stated that they want your ranking in tournaments to be based off of which covers you have and not how much you play. A way to sort the playing field. Your post basically is just saying they were successful in their endeavor.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Daedalus wrote:

Even if i never came here on this forum, i've been playing this game for more than 2 months.
After reading this thread about changes, i was skeptical. And now after I gave it some thoughts, i am more than skeptical and I will try to explain why.

From what i understand, the bigger change in pvp will be the possibility to challenge players way above our rank.
In my opinion, it will benefit only to players who have high level characters. Why? Because they will have much more chance to be skipped by low level and medium level players.
So even if a player with medium heroes reach a high rank, he will quickly get a target on his back to others medium players and lower rank players who have high level heroes.
Furthermore, players with high level heroes won't have to play long to get high rank, as they will be matched to high rank players.
If you don't have high level character, no mater how long you will play, you will never be able to keep a high rank because all people with about same level will target you and you will be dragged to the middle of the crowd.
So high level players will fight with themselves for the high rank positions, medium will have to stay in the middle, and lower will stay on bottom.
Finally, it will just dig the gab between players.

Just to fill you in, the devs have previously stated that they want your ranking in tournaments to be based off of which covers you have and not how much you play. A way to sort the playing field. Your post basically is just saying they were successful in their endeavor.

Sure, but that means that there will be even less chance for new comers to one day reach let's just say the top 50 in any tournament. Tell them that, and you sure will never see any new player coming.

Unknown

It just means new players will have trouble competing until they max a few good covers. Right now this issue is they might max the "wrong" ones. This problem hopefully will dissipate once the re-balance issues have been corrected and a respec feature is added.

Unknown

I tanked down with bagman team to observe the so called big +50 matches. It's very very rare to show up.

When I am 400 score, it took me 30 refresh to find a 1200+ target, then I reached 600, it took me 65 refreshes to find a 1400+ target, then at 900, I can not find any target worth more than 1.2k score.

I saw chicken pie with 1.5k score when I retaliated. However, I never able to find him by normal means of skipping opponent. The system only throw me the same 6-8 people at a time.

If a skip is implemented, I'd really hope the same opponent won't come up again and again, there is a different opponent for every skip. That way, I won't feel bad knowing there are juicy targets that I can fight for 45+ points. Currently I have no way to find them at all.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

It just means new players will have trouble competing until they max a few good covers. Right now this issue is they might max the "wrong" ones. This problem hopefully will dissipate once the re-balance issues have been corrected and a respec feature is added.

While new players will try to max 1 star heroes, high level players will get 3 stars covers (dozens of them), and surely max them. So when will the new players be able to compete with high level 3 stars?
All high ranking rewards will be earned by the same players.
Before this change, with some tactics, a lot of sacrifice and some time, you could reach the top 50 even with medium characters. Now, no chance at all.
High level players won't even have to think twice about the tournaments, as no mater what, they will be sure to reach high rank.

Unknown

Daedalus wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

It just means new players will have trouble competing until they max a few good covers. Right now this issue is they might max the "wrong" ones. This problem hopefully will dissipate once the re-balance issues have been corrected and a respec feature is added.

While new players will try to max 1 star heroes, high level players will get 3 stars covers (dozens of them), and surely max them. So when will the new players be able to compete with high level 3 stars?
All high ranking rewards will be earned by the same players.
Before this change, with some tactics, a lot of sacrifice and some time, you could reach the top 50 even with medium characters. Now, no chance at all.
High level players won't even have to think twice about the tournaments, as no mater what, they will be sure to reach high rank.

So now what you are telling me is that someone who has been playing for a week should be able to compete with someone who has been playing for months? This is why you all have such a bad time playing. You want everything handed to you instead of working for it. The entire point is you SHOULD NOT be competitive with 1 star covers. The whole point was you need to take the time to acquire the good 2* and the 3* either through luck, money, or any other means. Does it mean you will be competitive in a week or 2? No, of course not. Does it mean if you stick it out and keep at it that eventually you will have competitive covers? Yes, many people have managed it and more are continuing to do so. The top ranks are getting harder to compete for every day because the player base is growing every day. More people = more competition. You relate being harder to compete with recent changes when the nature of any competitive game like this is that those who start in the 1st week or 2 will have it easier than people who started anytime after the 1st month.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Daedalus wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

It just means new players will have trouble competing until they max a few good covers. Right now this issue is they might max the "wrong" ones. This problem hopefully will dissipate once the re-balance issues have been corrected and a respec feature is added.

While new players will try to max 1 star heroes, high level players will get 3 stars covers (dozens of them), and surely max them. So when will the new players be able to compete with high level 3 stars?
All high ranking rewards will be earned by the same players.
Before this change, with some tactics, a lot of sacrifice and some time, you could reach the top 50 even with medium characters. Now, no chance at all.
High level players won't even have to think twice about the tournaments, as no mater what, they will be sure to reach high rank.

So now what you are telling me is that someone who has been playing for a week should be able to compete with someone who has been playing for months? This is why you all have such a bad time playing. You want everything handed to you instead of working for it. The entire point is you SHOULD NOT be competitive with 1 star covers. The whole point was you need to take the time to acquire the good 2* and the 3* either through luck, money, or any other means. Does it mean you will be competitive in a week or 2? No, of course not. Does it mean if you stick it out and keep at it that eventually you will have competitive covers? Yes, many people have managed it and more are continuing to do so. The top ranks are getting harder to compete for every day because the player base is growing every day. More people = more competition. You relate being harder to compete with recent changes when the nature of any competitive game like this is that those who start in the 1st week or 2 will have it easier than people who started anytime after the 1st month.

I never said you could be competitive with 1 star covers. I said that new players will spend his time maxing his 1 star covers while others players will be maxing 3 stars covers, so they will never be competitive at all. What i say is that low level player should be able to fight against medium low player, and medium high player should be able to compete with lower high players, as it was before. Now each category will stay fixed UNLESS for those who will spend money. That's the main point.
Ohh, and i didn't say it was harder to compete with recent changes, I said the exact opposite. Or did you miss the last sentence of my last post?

Unknown

You say it's easier for high level players and I was stating it definitely is not because there are way way more people with maxed covers than just the top 50. A silly new player will max 1*'s. A new player who is experienced at mobile gaming will go straight to levelling 2* characters. I to this day have never had a 1* character past lvl 20-25 (the original im35 you are given). Your question in your post was "when will new players be able to compete with high level 3*" This was the question I answered, when they put in the time / work / money to gain good 2* and 3* themselves.

Unknown

Daedalus wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Daedalus wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

It just means new players will have trouble competing until they max a few good covers. Right now this issue is they might max the "wrong" ones. This problem hopefully will dissipate once the re-balance issues have been corrected and a respec feature is added.

While new players will try to max 1 star heroes, high level players will get 3 stars covers (dozens of them), and surely max them. So when will the new players be able to compete with high level 3 stars?
All high ranking rewards will be earned by the same players.
Before this change, with some tactics, a lot of sacrifice and some time, you could reach the top 50 even with medium characters. Now, no chance at all.
High level players won't even have to think twice about the tournaments, as no mater what, they will be sure to reach high rank.

So now what you are telling me is that someone who has been playing for a week should be able to compete with someone who has been playing for months? This is why you all have such a bad time playing. You want everything handed to you instead of working for it. The entire point is you SHOULD NOT be competitive with 1 star covers. The whole point was you need to take the time to acquire the good 2* and the 3* either through luck, money, or any other means. Does it mean you will be competitive in a week or 2? No, of course not. Does it mean if you stick it out and keep at it that eventually you will have competitive covers? Yes, many people have managed it and more are continuing to do so. The top ranks are getting harder to compete for every day because the player base is growing every day. More people = more competition. You relate being harder to compete with recent changes when the nature of any competitive game like this is that those who start in the 1st week or 2 will have it easier than people who started anytime after the 1st month.

I never said you could be competitive with 1 star covers. I said that new players will spend his time maxing his 1 star covers while others players will be maxing 3 stars covers, so they will never be competitive at all. What i say is that low level player should be able to fight against medium low player, and medium high player should be able to compete with lower high players, as it was before. Now each category will stay fixed UNLESS for those who will spend money. That's the main point.
Ohh, and i didn't say it was harder to compete with recent changes, I said the exact opposite. Or did you miss the last sentence of my last post?

There are plenty of opportunities to get 2* covers as well. Many tournaments have had them as progression rewards, they are commonly the second tier prize for tourmnaments, and you can get them without too much effort. Then as psykopathic says, you get really get to work on the 3* characters. But there is a definate progression you have to go through. That's always been true, and always will be true. "low level player should be able to fight against medium low player, and medium high player should be able to compete with lower high players", I don't get why you think this is suddenly no longer the case. The change to the match making system is the worst on higher level players, unless they are willing to buy shields. Having a higher level team does buy them some protection, but not enough when a player can take 50 points from you in one match.

Unknown

I'm almost certain the tournament points aren't zero-sum. Specifically, I've routinely entered a tanking team at the first possible second of a tournament and with 0 points, gotten thrashed over and over and over. I can't imagine that thirty or forty people wanted my 0 points. I don't know what happens if I have a lot of points, but it's definitely not zero sum at the beginning, even shields aside.

Also, I'm 99% sure you attack and get attacked by people who aren't in your bracket.

Also, if you're super low level and you just keep grinding, you'll become medium low level because new players will start with nothing. Basically, if you run a maxed out 1* team (which you can basically get by finishing the prologue), you should be able to get at least a 2* progression or ranking reward in most tournaments.

Unknown

ApolloAndy wrote:

I'm almost certain the tournament points aren't zero-sum. Specifically, I've routinely entered a tanking team at the first possible second of a tournament and with 0 points, gotten thrashed over and over and over. I can't imagine that thirty or forty people wanted my 0 points. I don't know what happens if I have a lot of points, but it's definitely not zero sum at the beginning, even shields aside.

Also, I'm 99% sure you attack and get attacked by people who aren't in your bracket.

Also, if you're super low level and you just keep grinding, you'll become medium low level because new players will start with nothing. Basically, if you run a maxed out 1* team (which you can basically get by finishing the prologue), you should be able to get at least a 2* progression or ranking reward in most tournaments.

After you reach a certain point, it becomes zero-sum. 500 points, I think, currently? if you are attacking someone with a score below that, they lose less than you gain, generating points. But since that cuts off, it doesn't help you reach the higher levels of progression/placement.

Unknown

We think most people have more fun fighting than skipping.

Being attacked by more people for a larger net loss than you're gaining = not fun
Being matched with opponents with 0 points = not fun
Being charged, however nominal, to skip these low rewarding opponents = not fun
Being charged to skip and then having that same opponent come up in the search again = not fun
Being charged to skip because I know I can't beat a 5 blue Spider-man because of defensive and retaliating stun-lock = not fun
Being stuck in a loop of the same 10 teams with lv. 100+ Spider-man = not fun
Having to pay more money to have a shot in hell to secure your hard work to make it to the top = not fun

---

I would like to challenge the developers to read all these 200+ posts from these forum members, who are the most dedicated and passionate players of your game, and tell us that these changes will benefit the players. Players are skipping because the matchmaking system is terribly broken. Players are using shields often because it's the only solution to achieving the astronomically high progression rewards and the only way to protect their hours of hard work. Players who are at the top deserve to be at the top because they've invested more time to compete.

Please fix your character balancing and matchmaking parameters before deciding the solution is to penalize the players. After all, a game is supposed to be fun, right?

Unknown

Progression is a team goal, not an individual goal. The system is redesigned to makes it almost impossible for anyone to break away like they did prior to the matchmaking changes. If you want to get up there, you got to help all the guys around you get up there too (via shields). Right now, I don't think it's going to work because the next major source of HP (100 at 1000 rating) is too high to be reached as a collective group, which means it is unlikely for people to spontaneously start shielding. I noticed they also removed one of the heroic token rewards. I'd suggest move the 100 HP down to 800 HP, and the heroic token up to 1000. That way people would have more incentive to start shielding at that range.

Unknown

If it's true that things aren't zero sum below 500, then the easier way to input points into the pool is to keep crushing people who are under 500. They'll lose 5 and you'll gain 10, for a net of +5. That said, I'm still pretty sure that you fight people outside your bracket, so you probably won't see much personal gain from doing this.

Spoit

Subject: A couple upcoming changes to PvP events

ApolloAndy wrote:

If it's true that things aren't zero sum below 500, then the easier way to input points into the pool is to keep crushing people who are under 500. They'll lose 5 and you'll gain 10, for a net of +5. That said, I'm still pretty sure that you fight people outside your bracket, so you probably won't see much personal gain from doing this.

Like phantom said, you want to push the aggregate scores up. If they're in your matchmaking it's increasing the pool of points, the bracket doesn't matter.

That said, I'm not convinced the zero sum point us as high as 500, it used to be like 600 or so, before they implemented hood round style scoring