**** Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) ****

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

onimus wrote:

Finished the Starlord PVP last night.

Man, talk about a useless character on defense.

I take back everything I ever said in support of him in terms of superior defense to Nick Fury haha.

He is dead weight on defense. It's kind of crazy how bad countdown tiles are...

The thing is, Countdown tiles don't HAVE to be bad. Look at Blade's. Look at X-Force's. Look at Squirrel Girl's.

I mean, honestly, he was gonna have a tough time because of Hood but really, unless they implement some of the changes/suggestions I've said, Starlord is more like Star-pauper.

I still say if they had the balls/ovaries to make his abilities PASSIVE(at least partly, 5 covers) or maybe he could START THE MATCH with his countdowns(at least partly, 5 covers) that would make the difference.

What are you talking about.
Blade has no countdown tiles. Anything he does has an immediate effect in the board.
Xforce yellow is almost exclusively something you use outside of real fights to fill him up. It's very often matched in fights but it has a (negligible, granted) effect. Squirrel girl is unusable - even her incredibly scaled counterpart in the gauntlet gave me no trouble.

SLs problem isn't that he's a bad hood, it's that he's bad period. His skills are all incredibly conditional aside from a moderately adequate nuke that takes 2 turns to wind up and has a pretty standard cost. If you want to compare him to an enabler, you compare him to mnmags. If you want to look at him as a nuker, the best comparison are to Hawkeye's 2 worst skills.

Phaserhawk

So I was crunching his numbers, trying to determine the most cost effective build, assuming you always had yellow out. I compared 5/5/3, 5/4/4, 5/3/5.

Verdict...........it depends.

In a vaccum, 5/3/5 is the most damaging build, 5/5/3 is the quickest, and 5/4/4 is inbetween. The answer lies in the % chance that his red tile survives, I would need Phantron to calculate that, but, I assumed the tile goes off 100%, 75%, 50%, and 25%.

If you assume the tile is going to go off more than 1/2 the time, then 5/3/5 is the best damage for AP assuming yellow is out, and if you assume it will go off less than 1/2 the time, then 5/5/3 is the best. Somewhere between 50% and 25% red tile resolve is where 5/5/3 becomes the best build and interestingly enough 5/4/4 becomes the worst. If the tile goes off 1/2 the time the AP per dmg is as follows

5/5/3--132 dmg per AP
5/4/4--313 dmg per AP
5/3/5--499 dmg per AP

Purple is as follows

5/5/3--803 dmg per AP
5/4/4 and 5/3/5--642 dmg per AP

Now if you do not factor yellow being out at all 5/3/5 is always the superior build. The other issue are the unknow factors, like how much more efficient yellow could make the other characters on your team better or how red could save you health packs by delaying the opponent.

I'm calling out Phantron to figure out the rough rate of succes of Star-Lord's red resolving, I'm assuming it would be similar to X-Force, which therin lies the dilema. You easily want thim 5/5/3 with 4hor, but you want him probably 5/3/5 with X-Force since yellow doesn't help Surgical Strike, and X-Force is already low costed at 8, it would just potentially give you the chance to go off after 2 matches instead of 3. If you wanted to run him with Fury for fun, you would want him 3/5/5 if your Fury was 3/5/5 and you would want him 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 with a 5/5/3 Fury, it depends on if you opt to try to accelerate Demolition or not.

I'll be intersted to see Phantron's results.

vudu3

ark123 wrote:

What are you talking about.
Blade has no countdown tiles. Anything he does has an immediate effect in the board.

Nightstalker places a CD tile.

Unknown

vudu3 wrote:

ark123 wrote:

What are you talking about.
Blade has no countdown tiles. Anything he does has an immediate effect in the board.

Nightstalker places a CD tile.

And does significant damage. And the countdown ticks every turn for a significant effect.

Half the skills SL has do basically nothing if you match the tile.

Countdowns are not bad if they have an immediate significant effect AND a secondary effect that can get out of hand. LCap, Punisher, etc.

atomzed

Phaserhawk wrote:

If you wanted to run him with Fury for fun, you would want him 3/5/5 if your Fury was 3/5/5 and you would want him 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 with a 5/5/3 Fury, it depends on if you opt to try to accelerate Demolition or not.

Does star Lord yellow reduces the AP requirement of Fury Avengers Assemble? Meaning that fury can have 3 red but still call in IM during AA?

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

If you wanted to run him with Fury for fun, you would want him 3/5/5 if your Fury was 3/5/5 and you would want him 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 with a 5/5/3 Fury, it depends on if you opt to try to accelerate Demolition or not.

Does star Lord yellow reduces the AP requirement of Fury Avengers Assemble? Meaning that fury can have 3 red but still call in IM during AA?

lol no.

That would actually be pretty good. SL doesn't do "pretty good". He does "That seems really marginal"

Unknown

I've played with and against him at least 50 times now and I don't think I've seen his red actually go off a single time.

He just seems to have a very low impact on matches. I'm not worried about him at all because there is always time to react to what he is trying to do. At least one of his abilities needs to have an immediate impact.

Unknown

I've changed my mind and think he's best 5/3/5. While yellow is his neatest ability, I don't think it impacts the game as much as immediate damage, unless you're going into a really long drawn out battle with lots of AP at your disposal. Because Red's countdown is random, you usually have to wait an extra turn or 2 to match red out of the way, but the extra dmg is still better than having 4 or 5 in yellow.

Phaserhawk

daibar wrote:

I've changed my mind and think he's best 5/3/5. While yellow is his neatest ability, I don't think it impacts the game as much as immediate damage, unless you're going into a really long drawn out battle with lots of AP at your disposal. Because Red's countdown is random, you usually have to wait an extra turn or 2 to match red out of the way, but the extra dmg is still better than having 4 or 5 in yellow.

Lol, I just came to the same conclusion. 5/5/3 is still by far his fastest build and actually enables him to do crazy things, but to do so requires the right team comp and you have to boost yellow. PvE which is where he is really good, red just offers too much not to go after, and if you pair him with Hood, you can increase the chances.

Interstingly enough, if you were to face off against Star-Lord what's going to hurt you more, him having his yellow on the board or him having his red? His red is going to be the threat, one it is delaying your moves and 2 if it goes off one of your guys is probably dead. Not to mention, is he going to save your **** more by cheaping your other skills by 2, or by delaying an impending Surgical Strike, Smite, Power Surge or X-Force? That's what I'm seeing his red now as, a 1-3 stall of impending death that hopefully you can get out of.

The only knock on not going 5 yellow is that your purple increases, however in order to get purple to decrease anyway, you have to go after yellow then purple, which actually costs 15 AP, vs. just going after purple in the first place which then costs 10.

Here's a list of major skills current on whether or not yellow at 5 vs. 3 matters.
X-Force--yes
Surgical Strike--no
Smite--no
Power Surge--no
Demolition--no
Escape plan--yes
Sleight of Hand--yes
Rage of the Panther--no
Keep your enemies closer--yes
Nightstalker--no
Star Spangled Avenger--yes
Peacemaker--no
Cheimical Reaction--yes
Whales--yes
Magnetized Projectiles--no
I got a plan--yes
Blammo--no
Thuderstrike--no
Call of the Storm--yes
Beserker Rage--no
Best there is--yes

As you can see most are purple abilties and if you ran him with 4hor or X-Force the only skill it would benefit is X-Force as it would go from a 3 match to a 2 match ability, however, on the flip side

His red maxed helps delay
X-Force, Surgical Strike, Power Surge all by 1 turn, Smite would still be a 4 match skill, although it helps make it a solid 4 match skill and not have to worry about a 4 tile match moving it into 3 match category.

For that reason alone I could see Star-Lord's red becoming more valuable, especially if you know a Surgical Strike would come the next turn, you just gave yourself at least one if not 3 turns of delay and a good pop in the mouth if it resolves.

I could see 5/4/4 becoming a strong potential build as well, you still gain the 2 AP reduction for all but purple, but you do lose blue delay and a fair amount of damage. After crunching all the numbers earlier, I think 5/4/4 is better than 5/5/3 as you get the speed of the acceleration but purple and it's far quicker to chase purple than to get yellow to reduce purple, plus you get more damage and more delay with red. However if you have the 5/3/5 mindset then 5/4/4 is a down grade where 5/4/4 is an upgrade for the 5/5/3 mentality.

Unknown

I would go for 355 or 445, probably the latter

His purple is lame, and why 5? 1.5k aoe damage? What it will do against X-Force, Thoress, Hulk, LThor
His yellow depends on the situation but i dont see much need to get it to 5 and affect purple, unless running IF/Doom maybe but there's not many decent heroes with it
Red seems a must, and it must be unreliable since you dont control the countdown tile
But using yellow, you have an unreliable 7k damage per 6 red, and thats a good bet

A curious thing about yellow, it costs 7, after use it costs 5, you can even trigger it twice and hope only one is destroyed

NorthernPolarity

Agent Alex wrote:

I would go for 355 or 445, probably the latter

His purple is lame, and why 5? 1.5k aoe damage? What it will do against X-Force, Thoress, Hulk, LThor
His yellow depends on the situation but i dont see much need to get it to 5 and affect purple, unless running IF/Doom maybe but there's not many decent heroes with it
Red seems a must, and it must be unreliable since you dont control the countdown tile
But using yellow, you have an unreliable 7k damage per 6 red, and thats a good bet

A curious thing about yellow, it costs 7, after use it costs 5, you can even trigger it twice and hope only one is destroyed

The 1.5k AoE damage includes the guy its targetting too, so its more like 6.5k damage to the main guy and 1.5k damage to the other two guys (which gets a big boost from strike tiles). I don't know much about whether or not red / yellow is better, but you'd have to be insane to not go 5 purple: it's his most consistent ability since you place the tile, and 9.5k damage for 10 AP is kind of a thing.

GrumpySmurf1002

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I would go for 355 or 445, probably the latter

His purple is lame, and why 5? 1.5k aoe damage? What it will do against X-Force, Thoress, Hulk, LThor
His yellow depends on the situation but i dont see much need to get it to 5 and affect purple, unless running IF/Doom maybe but there's not many decent heroes with it
Red seems a must, and it must be unreliable since you dont control the countdown tile
But using yellow, you have an unreliable 7k damage per 6 red, and thats a good bet

A curious thing about yellow, it costs 7, after use it costs 5, you can even trigger it twice and hope only one is destroyed

The 1.5k AoE damage includes the guy its targetting too, so its more like 6.5k damage to the main guy and 1.5k damage to the other two guys (which gets a big boost from strike tiles). I don't know much about whether or not red / yellow is better, but you'd have to be insane to not go 5 purple: it's his most consistent ability since you place the tile, and 9.5k damage for 10 AP is kind of a thing.

Partially insane. 3/5/5 should work well as a niche build with ProfessorX-GSBW, at least for the time being.

Otherwise, yellow/red to me seems like the difference between whether you're using him for support (5 yellow) or as your primary (5 red).

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I would go for 355 or 445, probably the latter

His purple is lame, and why 5? 1.5k aoe damage? What it will do against X-Force, Thoress, Hulk, LThor
His yellow depends on the situation but i dont see much need to get it to 5 and affect purple, unless running IF/Doom maybe but there's not many decent heroes with it
Red seems a must, and it must be unreliable since you dont control the countdown tile
But using yellow, you have an unreliable 7k damage per 6 red, and thats a good bet

A curious thing about yellow, it costs 7, after use it costs 5, you can even trigger it twice and hope only one is destroyed

The 1.5k AoE damage includes the guy its targetting too, so its more like 6.5k damage to the main guy and 1.5k damage to the other two guys (which gets a big boost from strike tiles). I don't know much about whether or not red / yellow is better, but you'd have to be insane to not go 5 purple: it's his most consistent ability since you place the tile, and 9.5k damage for 10 AP is kind of a thing.

Partially insane. 3/5/5 should work well as a niche build with ProfessorX-GSBW, at least for the time being.

Otherwise, yellow/red to me seems like the difference between whether you're using him for support (5 yellow) or as your primary (5 red).

yeah, I don't see GSBW's purple lasting in it's current form, because it is just a matter of time, and technically creates another winfinite combo as long as you can chain enough green, and if you do get enough green for sniper, it does reset the board to do it again. However I don't understand why you would need Star-Lord 3/5/5?. If the goal is just so you can have everyone maxed so you can keep purple strongest and you are just going for cheap costs, then x/5/x is all you need the other 2 colors don't matter.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I would go for 355 or 445, probably the latter

His purple is lame, and why 5? 1.5k aoe damage? What it will do against X-Force, Thoress, Hulk, LThor
His yellow depends on the situation but i dont see much need to get it to 5 and affect purple, unless running IF/Doom maybe but there's not many decent heroes with it
Red seems a must, and it must be unreliable since you dont control the countdown tile
But using yellow, you have an unreliable 7k damage per 6 red, and thats a good bet

A curious thing about yellow, it costs 7, after use it costs 5, you can even trigger it twice and hope only one is destroyed

The 1.5k AoE damage includes the guy its targetting too, so its more like 6.5k damage to the main guy and 1.5k damage to the other two guys (which gets a big boost from strike tiles). I don't know much about whether or not red / yellow is better, but you'd have to be insane to not go 5 purple: it's his most consistent ability since you place the tile, and 9.5k damage for 10 AP is kind of a thing.

Partially insane. 3/5/5 should work well as a niche build with ProfessorX-GSBW, at least for the time being.

Otherwise, yellow/red to me seems like the difference between whether you're using him for support (5 yellow) or as your primary (5 red).

yeah, I don't see GSBW's purple lasting in it's current form, because it is just a matter of time, and technically creates another winfinite combo as long as you can chain enough green, and if you do get enough green for sniper, it does reset the board to do it again. However I don't understand why you would need Star-Lord 3/5/5?. If the goal is just so you can have everyone maxed so you can keep purple strongest and you are just going for cheap costs, then x/5/x is all you need the other 2 colors don't matter.

In my opinion, insane would be bothering collecting purple, on a board when you usually have to deny green/red/blue/black (facing a typical 270/270 team we all know), purple is collateral damage, those are the tiles you get when you can't get others, if you face X-Force and focus on purple you are pretty much screwed
Why should i bother to deal 6k/1.5k/1.5k damage for a lesser colour like purple when red deals 7k on its own?
If you use yellow you have 7k per 6 red tiles, that has to be one the cheapest damage dealers in game
And you will get 12 red tiles from time to time

that would leave me like x/x/5 where x/4/5 would be enuogh to pull that damage
so the only question left for me would be if purple deserves 4 or yellow 5
With only GBW (if she's nerfed later is one thing, but right now it applies) around i would make it x/5/5 maybe hoping some other time comes a good purple user
But maybe talking about strike tiles Elektra could spam it faster with 5ap cost, but that would be bothering too much to bring a lame character to the fight

Unknown

Maybe you could even spam the board with the new MNMags, lowering the purple cost with 355, creating enough red to spam the board with counters 3-4 for 7k damage if you use boosts to hop, its all a theory of course, but it could be possible

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

yeah, I don't see GSBW's purple lasting in it's current form, because it is just a matter of time, and technically creates another winfinite combo as long as you can chain enough green, and if you do get enough green for sniper, it does reset the board to do it again. However I don't understand why you would need Star-Lord 3/5/5?. If the goal is just so you can have everyone maxed so you can keep purple strongest and you are just going for cheap costs, then x/5/x is all you need the other 2 colors don't matter.

You don't 'need' him 3/5/5, but if you're using him niche with Prof-GSBW, you're literally never using his purple, so may as well go 5 red.
I agree that GSBW won't last long as is, because of what I'll describe in response below:

edit: of course as I'm re-reading that, the red doesn't matter either because the game is over already. So yeah I guess 5/5/3 works anyway, since it pulls him out of the niche.

Agent Alex wrote:

In my opinion, insane would be bothering collecting purple, on a board when you usually have to deny green/red/blue/black (facing a typical 270/270 team we all know), purple is collateral damage, those are the tiles you get when you can't get others, if you face X-Force and focus on purple you are pretty much screwed

With Starlord-ProfessorX-GSBW, and full +6 purple boosts, XForce is dead after 2 purple matches or 1 yellow, 1 purple. Any Hood/Loki level support is also presumed dead (would be a terrible board to not get 13/11 green from the first GSBW purple).

The third character (likely) took a 4k sniper rifle and you have at least 8 purple AP with a mostly fresh board. It's at most one more purple match before they're taking another 8k from X and 5k from sniper, so everyone's dead.

It's not perfect (yellow/purple light boards will give Hood an out), and obviously doesn't work unless GSBW is featured in PvP, but it'll chew through Simulator and most PvE without much effort.

So yes, it will be nerfed once enough people get Starlord-Professor both maxed. So 17 years from now for the average player.

Unknown

I meant it mostly as in "why would you collect purple for Star Lord" but yes, GBW makes it work
And i dont think they nerf it so quickly, maybe in 3-4 months as with Star Lord surely
If i ever get close with Star Lord i might red generation with MNMags (easy to pull in any pvp) vs GBW (that's more limited to featured tournaments)

we all know how it is, they create things for you to abuse, nerf them ("because oh we had no clue you would do that!")
and then they create new things for you to chase the carrot and abuse them and so on and so on

GrumpySmurf1002

Agent Alex wrote:

I meant it mostly as in "why would you collect purple for Star Lord" but yes, GBW makes it work
And i dont think they nerf it so quickly, maybe in 3-4 months as with Star Lord surely
If i ever get close with Star Lord i might red generation with MNMags (easy to pull in any pvp) vs GBW (that's more limited to featured tournaments)

we all know how it is, they create things for you to abuse, nerf them ("because oh we had no clue you would do that!")
and then they create new things for you to chase the carrot and abuse them and so on and so on

If you're going for red generation for StarLord, Cyclops is cheaper AP cost and more effective, and will get you slightly less killed in PvP than Mags.

Unknown

true about the last thing (less killed) but

1- I would use yellow for Star Lord to reduce purple, which would make MNMags cast easier for more red
2- Cyclops would be tied to team up tiles around, not so reliable
3- If its just for quick hops (red would quickly diminish any hero) health packs dont matter much, you can't do more than 2-3 fights in some cases

But its a crazy idea, and those are countdowns, im not sure how effective it would be

Unknown

Does anyone who has a maxed starlord have an opinion on him at this point? With godess nerfed I am wondering if starlord might be a more viable pick these days. His red is actually super efficient assuming it goes off. Both his purple and his red do a lot of damage so maybe he is viable now? Has anyone really played with him yet?