*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

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  • Trisul
    Trisul Posts: 887 Critical Contributor
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    Good points, both. I forgot that all else being equal, offense > defense when it comes to transition.
  • trat73
    trat73 Posts: 79 Match Maker
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    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.
  • trat73 wrote:
    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.
    If a huge cascade happens and you get 11 black at the same time, it will choose randomly between both. The vast majority of time you'll get 6 black and the Ai will use it.
  • trat73 wrote:
    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.

    The AI makes a check each turn on whether to save up for the more expensive abilities (bigger the difference in cost, more likely they'll save). Realistically, they will almost always give up for the higher ability and use the cheaper one at some point long before they'll have enough. Now, if they got 6 black on one turn, and then you give them a black match 5 on the board, there is a pretty good chance they will save up for the 11 as they only have to make that check once (on the turn they match the black match 5). Normally it'd take quite a few more turns to hit 11 and the AI almost always gave up long before that.
  • ark123 wrote:
    trat73 wrote:
    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.
    If a huge cascade happens and you get 11 black at the same time, it will choose randomly between both. The vast majority of time you'll get 6 black and the Ai will use it.

    If Surgical Strike is the most expensive black ability they will always use it. If there's a more expensive one, it's randomly choose to use Surgical Strike or Jab Jab Cross if it decided to not save up for the most expensive black ability it has.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Phantron wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    trat73 wrote:
    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.
    If a huge cascade happens and you get 11 black at the same time, it will choose randomly between both. The vast majority of time you'll get 6 black and the Ai will use it.

    If Surgical Strike is the most expensive black ability they will always use it. If there's a more expensive one, it's randomly choose to use Surgical Strike or Jab Jab Cross if it decided to not save up for the most expensive black ability it has.

    There's one more condition in there. Once one ability is triggered, everything available is also triggered. Example: XForce triggers XForce, then if the AI has between 6-10 black, Jab-Jab is coming 100% of the time.

    It will still evaluate before that, so if it has 9-12 yellow, it will still decide between Recovery/Uppercut first, but once it triggers the green (automatic with enough AP), then any purple-black-TU is also coming.
  • Phantron wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    trat73 wrote:
    When using Cage with X-Force, does the AI use Jab, Jab, Jab over Surgical Strike every time? Not sure if it always went with the cheapest ability or character level/strength.
    If a huge cascade happens and you get 11 black at the same time, it will choose randomly between both. The vast majority of time you'll get 6 black and the Ai will use it.

    If Surgical Strike is the most expensive black ability they will always use it. If there's a more expensive one, it's randomly choose to use Surgical Strike or Jab Jab Cross if it decided to not save up for the most expensive black ability it has.

    Are you sure? Ive seen multiple goons use their yellows before Hood when he was over 20 yellow.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If you stun the more expensive ability (even if they don't have enough to cast it) they seem to always immediately fire off the cheaper one. Like if they have 10 black with xforce and cage, stunning xforce will lead to them not trying to save anymore.
  • Trisul
    Trisul Posts: 887 Critical Contributor
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    I don't have a playable Cage yet, but for some reason I'm in love with him conceptually.

    Is he as good in practice as I think he is in theory? Is he preferable to Loki for high-end players? In other words, is he worth leveling up (for more than just his featured)?
  • Scoregasms
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    Trisul wrote:
    I don't have a playable Cage yet, but for some reason I'm in love with him conceptually.

    Is he as good in practice as I think he is in theory? Is he preferable to Loki for high-end players? In other words, is he worth leveling up (for more than just his featured)?

    Personally, I think he's great for climbing early in PVP and for those Trivial to Easy nodes in PVE to negate Match damage. Also great in all goon Normal > Deadly nodes for his yellow Nuke, but for other cases, I prefer Loki over Cage. But, you can't discount his value in significantly reducing match damage early on and saving those health packs for those harder fights.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Trisul wrote:
    Is he as good in practice as I think he is in theory? Is he preferable to Loki for high-end players? In other words, is he worth leveling up (for more than just his featured)?
    My feeling is that he's good for climbing, he's a good partner for Magstique, but I'd never use him over Loki or Hood once I get to end-event high end matches.
  • His biggest drawback is that his black is likely to be used by the AI over surgical strike if you pair him with X-Force. In and of himself, he's quite good, but you have to keep in mind who he's being paired with.
  • Trisul wrote:
    I don't have a playable Cage yet, but for some reason I'm in love with him conceptually.

    Is he as good in practice as I think he is in theory? Is he preferable to Loki for high-end players? In other words, is he worth leveling up (for more than just his featured)?
    He really is. If you're playing Gauntlet a few nodes have him scaled, it's pretty much 13 yellow and a character is dead, and you play with no match damage.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ark123 wrote:
    He really is. If you're playing Gauntlet a few nodes have him scaled, it's pretty much 13 yellow and a character is dead, and you play with no match damage.
    If only we could level him to 395 too...
  • simonsez wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    He really is. If you're playing Gauntlet a few nodes have him scaled, it's pretty much 13 yellow and a character is dead, and you play with no match damage.
    If only we could level him to 395 too...
    Imagine playing him in BoP
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    He's the one guy that could actually throw a monkey-wrench into the go-to team of Hood, OBW and Juggs. I'm usually content to win via Juggs green and cascades, rather than have to micro-manage Juggs' health, but Cage would kill that plan and force you into headbutt mode.
  • ark123 wrote:
    Are you sure? Ive seen multiple goons use their yellows before Hood when he was over 20 yellow.

    Hmm, I sure never lucked into avoiding a Twin Pistols in a standard Hood + yellow pump configuration, but I don't think you get too many chances to try that. I certainly don't recall any situation that involves all non goons where the other side skipped their most expensive move when they're able to use it.

    Things might be a bit weird with goons because sometimes you'll see goons skip their most expensive move period, like say you had Muscle + Thug + Thug and they have 30 yellow AP, down the Muscle and you'll see Thugs do nothing for two turns even though they obviously have enough to do Pistol. My guess would be that since goons clearly have an internal cooldown of some sorts. That is, let's say you got Muscle + Don + Hitman. After a while you'll usually be seeing they've way more than enough AP in all their colors, but you'll usually not see Don use Trap even if he also didn't use any other move (yellow is likely Covering Fire and blue is usually Tommy Gun in this configuration). He'd just skip his Trap a lot of time for no apparent reason, and I wonder if this behavior also affects the villian they're paired with.
  • The logic for goons and using their abilities seems to be quite different. Sometimes it seems that they decide whether or not to use their top ability, and if they have the AP but don't use it, sometimes no one uses any ability. I have also seen goons sit on their AP for several turns with no countdowns out, or different AI behaviours like the sniper only having one tile out at a given time. With the Hitman/Muscle/Don combination, if there's between 6-8 yellowtile.pngAP often the AI saves up for Covering Fire (9 yellowtile.pngAP), and may not fire any of the other abilities, eg: the Don doesn't always fire off Trap despite having more than 10 blacktile.pngAP.

    One consistently reproducible thing seems to be that if there are no free yellow tiles, no goons with yellow powers will use their abilities, regardless if they have other abilities.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think for a new player Luke Cage falls into the mandatory column. Obviously this ebbs and flows with the new characters etc, but of 3*'s I think the following 3 characters are core for a great transition.

    1. Daken
    2. Captain America
    3. Luke Cage

    These 3 will take you farther then not, they will allow for sustained pushes and play well in either PvP or PvE. OBW can hold you out for awhile until you can get a Hood, but If had to go back, but could bring 3* with me, These would probably be the 3 I would take, although I could see grabbing Hood as well, but that's the Hood for you.
  • I fail to see how you'd ever consider lcap more useful than patch for transitioning players.