*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

Unknown

After reading carefully both replies and checking an analysis about total damage prevention, I am leaning towards the 5/3/5 build. My BP is almost maxed and XF is at 222 and if they are available, I think I'd use those 2 instead of Cage so I will mostly use him in his pvp. When that happens, his black will be more useful than the extra tile strength, thus the decision for the 5/3/5. Thank you both for replying.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

To me Cage is the same thing. The free defense is awesome, but having his black maxed is going to keep me from losing a match or a character more often than his shield.

I'm arguing yellow3, not black3. Your argument is probably the same, but I just wanted to clarify, since I think black5 is essential.

I think 5 yellow is essential as well. Colongseiur had him 3/5/5 out of the gate, and said he regretted not maxing yellow especially with 4hor, because it was so easy to get 13 yellow and it's damn near a knock out skil, he said he didnt find himself using black that much, which is why I was going to go 5/5/3 but then realzized 5 red is overkill, thus my new 5/3/5 preference, however I'm currently 3/4/4 and will be 3/5/4 once I hit progression reward so I still have a ways to go.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think 5 yellow is essential as well. Colongseiur had him 3/5/5 out of the gate, and said he regretted not maxing yellow especially with 4hor, because it was so easy to get 13 yellow and it's damn near a knock out skil, he said he didnt find himself using black that much

This is all a function of how he'd be used. I'd use him with Magstique, and now IF, so I'll be using black a ton. Yellow won't often get to 13 in those situations. And if I'm using GT, I'd much rather be using Loki or Hood. I'll leave the analysis to someone using a simulator, but it seems to me that accelerating AP and ending the match quicker is more beneficial than negating match damage.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think 5 yellow is essential as well. Colongseiur had him 3/5/5 out of the gate, and said he regretted not maxing yellow especially with 4hor, because it was so easy to get 13 yellow and it's damn near a knock out skil, he said he didnt find himself using black that much

This is all a function of how he'd be used. I'd use him with Magstique, and now IF, so I'll be using black a ton. Yellow won't often get to 13 in those situations. And if I'm using GT, I'd much rather be using Loki or Hood. I'll leave the analysis to someone using a simulator, but it seems to me that accelerating AP and ending the match quicker is more beneficial than negating match damage.

If you pair him with 4hor it would be instead of X-Force primarily, you would still use Loki (assuming SHIELD Sim)

My plan is to slowly seperate Xor into X-Force/IF/Hood and Thor/Cage/Loki

I want this to push in PvE and SHIELD, when I need it all then I will combine into Xor, but I think it's better to split them up in PvE and SHIELD, however defensively I would leave Xor as my last team.

PeterGibbons316

I'm transitioning to 3* and Luke Cage is one of my transitioning characters. I currently have him at level 130 (max of a lot of my characters) covered at 3/5/3. I'm wondering who I should pair him with in PvP?

Here are my relevant characters (all lvl 130):
Hood (5/5/3)
Storm (4/3/5)
Mystique (4/5/2)
Hulk (4/1/5)
X-Force (4/2/3)

Other characters with covers that maybe I should consider leveling?:

CMags (4/3/1)
Deadpool (2/2/4)
Cpt Marvel (4/2/5)
Rocket & Groot (2/5/2)
Sentry (5/2/2)
Blade (5/2/1)
Dr. Doom (5/1/2)
Cpt America (3/3/2)
BP (4/2/1)

Phaserhawk

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

I'm transitioning to 3* and Luke Cage is one of my transitioning characters. I currently have him at level 130 (max of a lot of my characters) covered at 3/5/3. I'm wondering who I should pair him with in PvP?

Here are my relevant characters (all lvl 130):
Hood (5/5/3)
Storm (4/3/5)
Mystique (4/5/2)
Hulk (4/1/5)
X-Force (4/2/3)

Other characters with covers that maybe I should consider leveling?:

CMags (4/3/1)
Deadpool (2/2/4)
Cpt Marvel (4/2/5)
Rocket & Groot (2/5/2)
Sentry (5/2/2)
Blade (5/2/1)
Dr. Doom (5/1/2)
Cpt America (3/3/2)
BP (4/2/1)

I would go Hood for sure as you could hide Hood from yellow and black with him, blue hood would still be exposed, you could then rotate the 3rd as needed, but Hood/Cage is a good combo

vudu3

I found myself with two red covers and two black covers in my queue. I took this opportunity to respec my 5/5/3 Cage to 5/3/5 for The Hunt PVE. After playing with Cage this way I've decided to go back to 5/5/3. The main reason is Cage's black really needs 18 AP to be worthwhile--ain't nobody got time for that! Sure, you could argue that 5 in red is overkill but it's the best kind of overkill. Plus, it's so satisfying to see all those 1 damage notices flying at my team.

Unknown

vudu3 wrote:

I found myself with two red covers and two black covers in my queue. I took this opportunity to respec my 5/5/3 Cage to 5/3/5 for The Hunt PVE. After playing with Cage this way I've decided to go back to 5/5/3. The main reason is Cage's black really needs 18 AP to be worthwhile--ain't nobody got time for that! Sure, you could argue that 5 in red is overkill but it's the best kind of overkill. Plus, it's so satisfying to see all those 1 damage notices flying at my team.

Agreed. His black is not bad, but his red and yellow are both great skills, probably top 2 or 3 in their respective covers, while his black is probably something like the 8th best black skill. I've mainly used it either as a finishing power when there's just a little left to kill or as a desperation move when I need someone dead now and am have to "waste" it by springing it early.

NorthernPolarity

vudu3 wrote:

I found myself with two red covers and two black covers in my queue. I took this opportunity to respec my 5/5/3 Cage to 5/3/5 for The Hunt PVE. After playing with Cage this way I've decided to go back to 5/5/3. The main reason is Cage's black really needs 18 AP to be worthwhile--ain't nobody got time for that! Sure, you could argue that 5 in red is overkill but it's the best kind of overkill. Plus, it's so satisfying to see all those 1 damage notices flying at my team.

It's less overkill if you use Cage while not buffed, since red 3->5 is a decent amount of damage prevented if Cage is at 166. If you only use Cage while buffed, well then you're being silly since 3 red is basically the same as 5 red in that case.

dkffiv

NorthernPolarity wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

I found myself with two red covers and two black covers in my queue. I took this opportunity to respec my 5/5/3 Cage to 5/3/5 for The Hunt PVE. After playing with Cage this way I've decided to go back to 5/5/3. The main reason is Cage's black really needs 18 AP to be worthwhile--ain't nobody got time for that! Sure, you could argue that 5 in red is overkill but it's the best kind of overkill. Plus, it's so satisfying to see all those 1 damage notices flying at my team.

It's less overkill if you use Cage while not buffed, since red 3->5 is a decent amount of damage prevented if Cage is at 166. If you only use Cage while buffed, well then you're being silly since 3 red is basically the same as 5 red in that case.

Even when buffed I liked 5 red due to the number of 4 and 5 matches the AI ends up getting. Haven't seen him in a heroic yet but so far I've only been using black as a quick weak finisher on low hp targets.

rixmith

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

Polares

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

Phaserhawk

Polares wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

except 5 red is overkill, you are nerfing yellow or black for no reason. 4 red is enough to stop almost all of match damage, so you don't need 5, and the upgrade from 3 to 4 in red isn't worth the cost to black or yellow.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Polares wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

except 5 red is overkill, you are nerfing yellow or black for no reason. 4 red is enough to stop almost all of match damage, so you don't need 5, and the upgrade from 3 to 4 in red isn't worth the cost to black or yellow.

It's not overkill. Plenty of charged tiles being matched around.

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

Polares wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

except 5 red is overkill, you are nerfing yellow or black for no reason. 4 red is enough to stop almost all of match damage, so you don't need 5, and the upgrade from 3 to 4 in red isn't worth the cost to black or yellow.

Why is it overkill? Maybe in PvP but not in PvE where you are fighting against 250+ lvl enemies all the time. But even in PvP if you are constantly fighting against a featured 259 lvl hero and a 270 XForce then they are doing more than 160 tile damage, so you need the extra defense to soak the damage. Or if you fight against IF. (NP numbers were just for a buffed Luke Cage, 196 or 256lvl, but I don't get why you consider using him just when buffed...)

But yes a 5/3/5 is good offensive build, you have two very strong attack abilities with a not bad defense ability. But maybe if I want to go full offense, this build is too similar to Cyclops.

Phaserhawk

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Polares wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

except 5 red is overkill, you are nerfing yellow or black for no reason. 4 red is enough to stop almost all of match damage, so you don't need 5, and the upgrade from 3 to 4 in red isn't worth the cost to black or yellow.

Why is it overkill? Maybe in PvP but not in PvE where you are fighting against 250+ lvl enemies all the time. But even in PvP if you are constantly fighting against a featured 259 lvl hero and a 270 XForce then they are doing more than 160 tile damage, so you need the extra defense to soak the damage. Or if you fight against IF. (NP numbers were just for a buffed Luke Cage, 196 or 256lvl, but I don't get why you consider using him just when buffed...)

But yes a 5/3/5 is good offensive build, you have two very strong attack abilities with a not bad defense ability. But maybe if I want to go full offense, this build is too similar to Cyclops.

Sure I may save some damage taken, but losing 3.2K on yellow or 2K on black when I could kill someone many turns sooner is going to save me much more than that extra 100 dmg or so I take per turn from matches. And as the last PvE showed me, (and I have him 5 red right now) that that tile does **** against abilties, so I in this situation, a good offense is better than an average defense.

As for Cyclops, suprisingly they are a good pairing, they don't conflict with red, you have the option of speeding up yellow, or hanging on for Cage's, and you have 2 blacks to choose from

NorthernPolarity

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Polares wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I've done some playing with Cage and Patch (but you can substitute any good strike tile generator) and that has convinced me that 5/3/5 is the way to go. Any time you can have cheap powers with strike tiles, that makes them so much more effective. So for 12 AP he can really deal some serious damage.

But if you are interested in using cheap powers (so you are not going to wait until you have 12 black AP) then the strike tiles are more important than the level of the black power. If you pair him with Patch you are going to do allmost the same damage with 3-5 covers, 1044+700 or 1044+1000, so allmost no difference. The big difference in black comes when you wait until you have 12 AP, but then strike tiles are not that important... (and if you pair him with Patch and you are not using Loki, then maybe the difference from 160 to 260 in shield strength is going to help Patch soak all the damage).

The big reason I may build Luke Cage 3/5/5 instead of 5/5/3 is called IF. If you pair them together 3/5/5 is your build, and 12 black is your number

except 5 red is overkill, you are nerfing yellow or black for no reason. 4 red is enough to stop almost all of match damage, so you don't need 5, and the upgrade from 3 to 4 in red isn't worth the cost to black or yellow.

Why is it overkill? Maybe in PvP but not in PvE where you are fighting against 250+ lvl enemies all the time. But even in PvP if you are constantly fighting against a featured 259 lvl hero and a 270 XForce then they are doing more than 160 tile damage, so you need the extra defense to soak the damage. Or if you fight against IF. (NP numbers were just for a buffed Luke Cage, 196 or 256lvl, but I don't get why you consider using him just when buffed...)

But yes a 5/3/5 is good offensive build, you have two very strong attack abilities with a not bad defense ability. But maybe if I want to go full offense, this build is too similar to Cyclops.

Once you get a 4* roster, you are not really going to be using Cage outside of when he is buffed.

Polares

NorthernPolarity wrote:

...

Once you get a 4* roster, you are not really going to be using Cage outside of when he is buffed.

Well, if they nerf 4hor (and if they nerf XForce too as seems it will) maybe you will.

atomzed

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Once you get a 4* roster, you are not really going to be using Cage outside of when he is buffed.

I don't know, I actually use him in pvp for the early climb. Since he can save health packs for the featured character especially.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Once you get a 4* roster, you are not really going to be using Cage outside of when he is buffed.

Incorrect. I use him in lightning rounds all the time to use my GT without damaging her. I also use them when I need to climb in pvp quicker than using regenerators. And he makes it so you take no damage on trivial nodes in pve - this is where having 5 red is useful, as it soaks a large amount of skill damage also.