*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

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  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    I'm very much the same with his yellow. I team him with Lthor all the time, but always use Cage's yellow. Yes, by firing LThor's yellow you have the potential for cascades, but its of course no guarantee. By the time you have Cage's yellow ready for use its a one shot kill on one of the opponents. Far more valuable to me than the chance of a cascade.
    um....... icon_eek.gif

    Thor Yellow = cascade?

    No Guareentee?

    I think you're downplaying what Thor yellow does.....

    Honestly, I've used it loads and more than half the time dont get a cascade from it, and thats with 5 yellow covers. Thats too low odds for me to use that instead of Cage's yellow.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
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    Cage really needs to be 5/5/5 icon_e_wink.gif

    i got him 5/5/3 because match damage often comes with bonus (strike tiles) and it often reduces even small skills to -1. His black is good but easily replaced imho.
  • Unknown
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    5/5/5 Cage is what I want hahaha

    As for what I'd be using Cage for, its really for defense and a punch, which is making me start to lean towards 553, but then I think "what about when I need to freeze a CD and could use the stun of black".

    If only the difference between 4-5 covers wasn't so great, then I'd just go 544 and be happy.
    - Unreall
  • Unknown
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    raisinbman wrote:
    I'm very much the same with his yellow. I team him with Lthor all the time, but always use Cage's yellow. Yes, by firing LThor's yellow you have the potential for cascades, but its of course no guarantee. By the time you have Cage's yellow ready for use its a one shot kill on one of the opponents. Far more valuable to me than the chance of a cascade.
    um....... icon_eek.gif

    Thor Yellow = cascade?

    No Guareentee?

    I think you're downplaying what Thor yellow does.....

    Honestly, I've used it loads and more than half the time dont get a cascade from it, and thats with 5 yellow covers. Thats too low odds for me to use that instead of Cage's yellow.
    Then I'd argue you're using it wrong and your sample size is biased, insert Zoidberg.

    Of all the moves that "only lead to cascades", that's NEVER how I would describe Thor yellowflag.png.

    You prob don't like IF purple either or KK,

    You sound like Doom blue @ 5 user
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
  • Unknown
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall
  • Unknown
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Any tool can be used wrong.
    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall

    Which is my point. I don't see how anyone can say thor's yellow is a disappointment in any way.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall

    Well yeah, cause it doesn't do the 6K damage that Cage's yellow does.

    Cage's yellow will kill the guy you aim it at, Thor's yellow wont so you'll still have to face another attack from them before you get a chance of killing them with your next hit.
  • Unknown
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall

    Well yeah, cause it doesn't do the 6K damage that Cage's yellow does.

    Cage's yellow will kill the guy you aim it at, Thor's yellow wont so you'll still have to face another attack from them before you get a chance of killing them with your next hit.
    Nope, because you'll be casting Thor Green immediately after
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Not for me it doesn't. I've rarely ever been able to cast green straight away, its always after at least one more move, giving the AI a chance to take more health off me first.

    If its someone powerful, I want them downed asap, hence Cage's yellow.
  • Unknown
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    Not for me it doesn't. I've rarely ever been able to cast green straight away, its always after at least one more move, giving the AI a chance to take more health off me first.

    If its someone powerful, I want them downed asap, hence Cage's yellow.
    Majority of players rated Thor #1 recently, I'm just going to leave it at that.

    You're telling me you've never seen 2/3*thor go from yellow to green?

    You must be playing a ROM of MPQ
  • Unknown
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    Thor can be a pain with feeding his own powers for sure.

    But.. given that a half upgraded cage absolutely shuts the match down for an opponent offensively, guaranteed, automatically, beyond his yellow and black power - makes him easily the most unbalanced character by far. Hell I went through a bunch of gauntlet levels easily because I had a 120 powered cage with a fully covered red power.
  • Unknown
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    Thor can be a pain with feeding his own powers for sure.

    But.. given that a half upgraded cage absolutely shuts the match down for an opponent offensively, guaranteed, automatically, beyond his yellow and black power - makes him easily the most unbalanced character by far. Hell I went through a bunch of gauntlet levels easily because I had a 120 powered cage with a fully covered red power.
    He's not unbalanced. Do I have to say this in every thread you show up in?
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
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    But.. given that a half upgraded cage absolutely shuts the match down for an opponent offensively, guaranteed, automatically, beyond his yellow and black power - makes him easily the most unbalanced character by far. Hell I went through a bunch of gauntlet levels easily because I had a 120 powered cage with a fully covered red power.

    sorry, but how does it shut the match down when you receive 270 damage less per attack? It negates match damage nicely but shutting a match down? 5 covers in Hyperbole, i guess...
  • Unknown
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall

    Well yeah, cause it doesn't do the 6K damage that Cage's yellow does.

    Cage's yellow will kill the guy you aim it at, Thor's yellow wont so you'll still have to face another attack from them before you get a chance of killing them with your next hit.
    A match is decided by more than just outright damage. Yes Cage can hit for 6k, no one is debating its strength, but I'm sorry, doing 2.5k while also dumping NINE green tiles on a board that if you've been going for yellow, has a good amount of green on it, means you get 2.5k + Match DMG, plus most likely you get 4 and 5 matches which leads to cascades and criticals, which leads to not JUST the 14 green you need to fire off an AoE that does an addiitonal 2.5k to everyone plus 2.5K to main target, but also will net you AP in other colors for MORE attacks. There is a reason the majority of the top 25 are heavy in board shake-up.
    - Unreall
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif

    You hit the yellow, it throws a whole load of greens on the board and you wait to see what happens. I rarely get more than a couple of matches, which doesn't really alter the board all that much.

    And no, I'm a 5/3/5 Doom so I can take advantage of his black and purple. Again, his blue doesn't change the board enough to be viable.
    Ya'll just ignore the 3k+ dmg it does on TOP of dropping a bucket load of greens...
    - Unreall

    Well yeah, cause it doesn't do the 6K damage that Cage's yellow does.

    Cage's yellow will kill the guy you aim it at, Thor's yellow wont so you'll still have to face another attack from them before you get a chance of killing them with your next hit.
    A match is decided by more than just outright damage. Yes Cage can hit for 6k, no one is debating its strength, but I'm sorry, doing 2.5k while also dumping NINE green tiles on a board that if you've been going for yellow, has a good amount of green on it, means you get 2.5k + Match DMG, plus most likely you get 4 and 5 matches which leads to cascades and criticals, which leads to not JUST the 14 green you need to fire off an AoE that does an addiitonal 2.5k to everyone plus 2.5K to main target, but also will net you AP in other colors for MORE attacks. There is a reason the majority of the top 25 are heavy in board shake-up.
    - Unreall

    Not really sure what the problem is here. Thor is awesome. Cage is awesome. They are basically 2 of the top 3 or 4 3*s in the game. They both have awesome yellow powers. Cage is better for dropping a single target. Thor is better for board control and (because of the daisy chain into green combo) air damage. Which ever one is better, it's like debating between the value of $20.00 and $19.99 (i.e. what is the point?).
  • Unknown
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    Re: Thor yellow
    How can you possibly use it wrong? icon_lol.gif
    Matching too much green before you cast.
    Xenoberyll wrote:
    sorry, but how does it shut the match down when you receive 270 damage less per attack? It negates match damage nicely but shutting a match down? 5 covers in Hyperbole, i guess...
    It doesn't totally shut down the match but it forces you to use abilities to kill people. If you miscalculate and an enemy ends up at 500 hit points, it really sucks if you have to gather and spend 10AP for that list bit of health. If Cage is out, a lot of the time you need about 1.5 abilities to kill a person so it sucks having to waste half of an ability's damage to kill a guy.
  • PuceMoose
    PuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If I'm facing Mr. Cage I try to bring along a strike tile generator to counteract the protect tile - Lazy Daken is useful here, as he clogs up the red. It's possible to completely stop Cage's protect tile from going off if you have all red covered with strike tiles - his unbreakable skin won't even go off. Even if it does, with five or six strike tiles out you can largely mitigate the protect tile's effect. If you don't want to/can't bring a Strike tile generator, Loki's trickery is expensive but will accomplish the same thing. Make sure Cage's protect tile is an a hard-to-reach place, and you'll have a strike tile equal in strength to Cage's protect tile, so it ends up cancelling it out. Or, bring Iron Fist, and his attack tile does enough damage to make up for the lost match damage (in theory - my poor Iron Fist is only a 2/1/2, so I haven't been able to test this myself).
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Puce Moose wrote:
    If I'm facing Mr. Cage I try to bring along a strike tile generator to counteract the protect tile - Lazy Daken is useful here, as he clogs up the red. It's possible to completely stop Cage's protect tile from going off if you have all red covered with strike tiles - his unbreakable skin won't even go off. Even if it does, with five or six strike tiles out you can largely mitigate the protect tile's effect. If you don't want to/can't bring a Strike tile generator, Loki's trickery is expensive but will accomplish the same thing. Make sure Cage's protect tile is an a hard-to-reach place, and you'll have a strike tile equal in strength to Cage's protect tile, so it ends up cancelling it out. Or, bring Iron Fist, and his attack tile does enough damage to make up for the lost match damage (in theory - my poor Iron Fist is only a 2/1/2, so I haven't been able to test this myself).

    That is a fine strategy for handling cage in pve, but it comes with a severe drawback: you now have to bring lazy daken or another strike tile generator. laken and most other strike tile egebrators are a fairly significant liabilities in pvp (blade and imhb are exceptions).

    Iron fist is a better counter to cage imo.
  • Unknown
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    Puce Moose wrote:
    If I'm facing Mr. Cage I try to bring along a strike tile generator to counteract the protect tile - Lazy Daken is useful here, as he clogs up the red. It's possible to completely stop Cage's protect tile from going off if you have all red covered with strike tiles - his unbreakable skin won't even go off. Even if it does, with five or six strike tiles out you can largely mitigate the protect tile's effect. If you don't want to/can't bring a Strike tile generator, Loki's trickery is expensive but will accomplish the same thing. Make sure Cage's protect tile is an a hard-to-reach place, and you'll have a strike tile equal in strength to Cage's protect tile, so it ends up cancelling it out. Or, bring Iron Fist, and his attack tile does enough damage to make up for the lost match damage (in theory - my poor Iron Fist is only a 2/1/2, so I haven't been able to test this myself).

    That is a fine strategy for handling cage in pve, but it comes with a severe drawback: you now have to bring lazy daken or another strike tile generator. laken and most other strike tile egebrators are a fairly significant liabilities in pvp (blade and imhb are exceptions).

    Iron fist is a better counter to cage imo.
    I'm not going to pretend as though Laken will carry you to 1000, but to call him a liability feels kind of 'strong', heck he's more hassle than Blade is to fight against. Hell, while its PvE, just doing Laken/Patch/Cage is clearing rounds with almost no dmg taken. In PvP he is still IMO one of the top 5 climbers as well, he just gets outclassed once you get to the top of the heap.

    As for dealing with Cage, I just treat him like I do Patch/Laken/RnG - save up the AP to down him in one turn (or close to it), then whipe his red out...just like IF. If I fight Cage, I ALWAYS bring a REAL heavy hitter, I don't mess around with a support team like CMags/Loki/Hood or CapA/Blade/Falcon, I go like Lhor/XF/Hood, some setup that cna prety much down anything in a couple hits. It's not like you fight him 'blindly'.
    - Unreall