*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

Buret0

Lerysh wrote:

So with health packs expanding to 10 I'm really thinking about going 5/3/5 with my Cage. Today is Yellow Cage day in DDQ so I am going to go 4/4/5 for a month and see how that goes. If I hate it I can go back to 3/5/5, if I don't hate it then I start searching for a yellow cover.

While boosted 3 is totally enough to cover match damage, and then you also gain the benefit of highly boosted damage output skills. When not boosted I feel like maybe 141 is enough to mitigate some match damage and save on health packs, and since I will have 10 soon protecting someone like Hood from all match damage all the time is far less important. Plus with matches taking much longer now 13 cost skills have really come into their own and Cage's 13 skill is probably the best yellow skill that exists, damage wise. Thor might have better overall, with the green production, but not by a lot.

Because there are so many good yellow passives in the game, I think Luke Cage's Yellow takes on additional merit.

You can put him in with Patch, KK, Falcon, Patch, 2olverine, and Rocket & Groot to cover their yellow passives.

Hood's yellow isn't a passive, but I don't get a ton of use out of it because of its damage per AP, turn ending, and putting him out front to take a hit. Mostly just PvE CD tile cleanup. Plus the two pair well together because you can slow down AP generation and match damage.

Vhailorx

Chief270 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Phantron wrote:

As nothernpolarity (r.i.p.) said when cage was released, at 5 covers, his protect tile is absorbing a little over 250 damage per turn. Back then average matches lasted about 10 turns, and that length has gone up since then with the health shift and boost reduction. That means that cages is effectively true healing your entire team for 2500+ health each match. If you can prevent the enemy from using their abilities, he can effectively neutralize all damage completely. What's not to like?

This assumes
1) only one match per turn
2) every match is 250+ damage (which only 4* characters / Boosted 3* come close, someone correct me if I'm wrong)
3) no damage abilities are fired

But using those assumption.. those same 10 turns with 3 covers is 1400+. Plus gives the opportunity to end the match sooner due to higher damage output on black/yellow.

So the question is, is it worth the possible ~ 1100(assuming max damage per match) to lower the damage output by either his yellow or black.

I've been a 3/5/5 user on this guy for a long time, and am considering a change. The protect tile is nice, but starting to think the change from 5 to 3 will be less noticeable, than the extra damage I see from his enhanced yellow. Should help me speed up my hops as well.

^ Just realized I'm taking a PVP mentality. PVE might have another stance entirely.

I believe I used the word "average" so most of those assumptions are covered. But yes, the actual damage saved will be more or less depending upon conditions. I would suggest however. That high level PvP and pve are now always against 4*a or boosted 3*a. And matches are longer, so the meta value of defense has gone up since early April.

And please do not interpret my argument as suggesting 5/3/5 is a bad build. Part of why cage is great is that he doesn't have a bad build.

I just feel that if you really care about speedy hops on offense, use cyclops who does more damage with his 5-match power, and accellerates his own red. In matches where that extra defense is more important than speed, or where you want to protect squishy supports like hood or loki, you will appreciate that beefier tile.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

So with health packs expanding to 10 I'm really thinking about going 5/3/5 with my Cage. Today is Yellow Cage day in DDQ so I am going to go 4/4/5 for a month and see how that goes. If I hate it I can go back to 3/5/5, if I don't hate it then I start searching for a yellow cover.

While boosted 3 is totally enough to cover match damage, and then you also gain the benefit of highly boosted damage output skills. When not boosted I feel like maybe 141 is enough to mitigate some match damage and save on health packs, and since I will have 10 soon protecting someone like Hood from all match damage all the time is far less important. Plus with matches taking much longer now 13 cost skills have really come into their own and Cage's 13 skill is probably the best yellow skill that exists, damage wise. Thor might have better overall, with the green production, but not by a lot.

Yeah...I'm starting to lean towards 5/3/5 if the HP news is true. I'm at 543 now, and will just get him to 166 when I can and go from there.

Now if only I didn't think IF would get nerfed. I really want a 'Cage-centric' team. As it stands I have my blade team, my true healing team, my 3hor team, I'd really like to build a team around Cage devoid of Hood, Blade, Falcon, 3hor, Laken, Patch, CMags. Steve Rogers is an option. I'll check the team building threads during lunch I guess.
- Unreall

GrumpySmurf1002

I'm running 5/4/4 currently and he's pretty balanced. Once I get IF up to speed, 5/3/5 will become a no brainer, but for now I like the match damage savings.

Unknown

My Cage is 4/4/5 just now but im wanting him 5/3/5 to be honest. The extra damage protect is ok (obviously 5 would be best) but i think more damage is better.

Unknown

I have been critical of this guy from the start and I think that to be fair, at some point he can't not get nerfed.

That being said I know that for the moment he's here to stay and so I got on the bus. As a 5-5-3 guy who is approaching full level upgrade, he is a beast. A total beast. His red power shutting down the match is most important. If you can get enough yellow AP in a match, a fully upgraded yellow attack is truly mind bending. Since the true force of his black power takes lots of AP, and I have a well upgraded XF, blade, and Mohican storm I don't care so much so I think my upgrade scheme is where I'll stay.

I use him as a secondary guy though. So I need his red power, and his yellow one is a bonus. If the match really stretches out, then his black power is cool otherwise it is a leave or take. Either way, given the increasing frequency with which I run into him in PVPs and more commonly the SHIELD simulator, it is clear that he is being used disproportionately more than most other characters. Which can only mean 1 thing. That says something. Whether he is nerfed or not, much like the hood, he is someone who comes in handy much of the time, and is a good asset to have when you run into someone with a similarly upgraded cage as a defensive offset.

Nick441234

When does the nerfing stop though? Cage is a relatively old character now, he's surely bypassed nerfing consideration now.

Just by looking at the character rankings, he's not even considered the best character in the game, so surely nerfing him wouldn't be fair unless you plan to nerf all the characters ahead of him as well! I dont believe his protect tile is grounds for a nerf considering his other powers are good but not spectacular.

Unknown

tuscan panty raider wrote:

I have been critical of this guy from the start and I think that to be fair, at some point he can't not get nerfed.

That being said I know that for the moment he's here to stay and so I got on the bus. As a 5-5-3 guy who is approaching full level upgrade, he is a beast. A total beast. His red power shutting down the match is most important. If you can get enough yellow AP in a match, a fully upgraded yellow attack is truly mind bending. Since the true force of his black power takes lots of AP, and I have a well upgraded XF, blade, and Mohican storm I don't care so much so I think my upgrade scheme is where I'll stay.

I use him as a secondary guy though. So I need his red power, and his yellow one is a bonus. If the match really stretches out, then his black power is cool otherwise it is a leave or take. Either way, given the increasing frequency with which I run into him in PVPs and more commonly the SHIELD simulator, it is clear that he is being used disproportionately more than most other characters. Which can only mean 1 thing. That says something. Whether he is nerfed or not, much like the hood, he is someone who comes in handy much of the time, and is a good asset to have when you run into someone with a similarly upgraded cage as a defensive offset.

He's not going to get nerfed. I will say this everytime you try to say otherwise.

Nick441234

I dont understand the comment about seeing him in PVP all the time, either. I come across a Cage maybe 1 in every 15 matches. Thats nothing compared to say X Force pre nerf. That guy popped up probably 1 in every 5.

Vhailorx

Yeah, cage is a top tier character for sure, but he doesn't seem broken. There are ways to fight him, he has limitations, and isn't always the best choice for any situation. He is like lazy thor: as good as you can be without breaking the meta.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

Yeah, cage is a top tier character for sure, but he doesn't seem broken. There are ways to fight him, he has limitations, and isn't always the best choice for any situation. He is like lazy thor: as good as you can be without breaking the meta.

This. You nerf a character for one of two reasons, they break the meta or they break the game. Ya'll might disagree with this, but as I see it Cage is really just a support guy. He's Hood - instead of shutting down AP, he shuts down match dmg, and then has a yellow nuke that takes so many yellow to get to, that you either are focusing on it or fall into it 'late' in the match, oh and his black seems situational, more effective than intimidation, but WAY more expensive.

There are right now only a few characters who are worth looking at for nerfs, and really I think its just PX. I keep saying IF is going to get nerf'd, but in reality he just needs a small adjustment. Carnage will break the meta...so many defensive Carnages will pop up, so he' going to get a nerf after they've made their money.

Cage isn't on the list. He hits hard after a HIGH number of AP, no different than say Lhor or Cyclops or CapA. Yellow isn't some "7 AP and kill" attack. He does NO boardshake up. His defense is really just an annoyance, pretend its not there and it trivializes him, one good cascade for AP and pretty much any team can chew through his defense with specials. So he doesn't break the game. And as others have said, despite being valued so high - Top 5 - its RARE that you see him. PX I understand as a 4*, but as 3*s go Cage is much easier to get leveled up, but you see few in PvP, so the meta is fine too.
-Unreall

Unknown

Everyone: don't take what tuscan says seriously, the person has an axe to grind against cage and look at karma. I know I'm not allowed to call out forum users or w/e, but honestly...don't waste your time(Unless you just like mythbusting or something).

Unknown

I know he probably won't be nerfed but if he were I prefer simply if "At the beginning of every turn" were changed to "When Luke Cage makes a match". Ditto for IF's exquisite technique.

It wouldn't be that much of a nerf, but would still make those 2 characters feel much less unfair when you're against them.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

I know he probably won't be nerfed but if he were I prefer simply if "At the beginning of every turn" were changed to "When Luke Cage makes a match". Ditto for IF's exquisite technique.

It wouldn't be that much of a nerf, but would still make those 2 characters feel much less unfair when you're against them.

I dunno. I like where it is now.

Problem is when D3 released cage, they sealed the deal for him being the best protect tile user because the ability is so strong(even tho protect tiles overall aren't that great).

Plus, that ability has been done before.

I'd like to see more stuff akin to Doc Ock's Black(match your opponents stuff for a benefit)

Vhailorx

daibar wrote:

I know he probably won't be nerfed but if he were I prefer simply if "At the beginning of every turn" were changed to "When Luke Cage makes a match". Ditto for IF's exquisite technique.

It wouldn't be that much of a nerf, but would still make those 2 characters feel much less unfair when you're against them.

Spidey says "I already have that power for my purple."

Nick441234

If you messed with his protect tile though people just wouldn't use him anymore. His yellow and black are too expensive so the only reason why I'm sure most use him is for his protect tile.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

daibar wrote:

I know he probably won't be nerfed but if he were I prefer simply if "At the beginning of every turn" were changed to "When Luke Cage makes a match". Ditto for IF's exquisite technique.

It wouldn't be that much of a nerf, but would still make those 2 characters feel much less unfair when you're against them.

Spidey says "I already have that power for my purple."

I'm not sure how serious you guys are, but it is a significantly different power as it's a single tile, and significantly stronger than other individual protect tiles. While you can prevent spidey's protect tiles by matching purple, it's very hard to stop a character from matching any of their colors. It'd give more strategy in dealing with the protect tile, as well as more impetus for you to make another Cage match if the protect tile gets matched away (or IF match..)

The downside is that his red would become useless at low covers or levels, assuming the player had stronger heroes, and Cage was a third.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

daibar wrote:

I know he probably won't be nerfed but if he were I prefer simply if "At the beginning of every turn" were changed to "When Luke Cage makes a match". Ditto for IF's exquisite technique.

It wouldn't be that much of a nerf, but would still make those 2 characters feel much less unfair when you're against them.

Spidey says "I already have that power for my purple."

I'm not sure how serious you guys are, but it is a significantly different power as it's a single tile, and significantly stronger than other individual protect tiles. While you can prevent spidey's protect tiles by matching purple, it's very hard to stop a character from matching any of their colors. It'd give more strategy in dealing with the protect tile, as well as more impetus for you to make another Cage match if the protect tile gets matched away (or IF match..)

The downside is that his red would become useless at low covers or levels, assuming the player had stronger heroes, and Cage was a third.

Cage gets one strong tile, spiderman gets up to I think its 4 tiles that end up being stronger and hard to squash out, and if its matchable, Spiderman can match it to move it.

The power should stay as is. Cage is perfectly fine. He's strong, he can be annoying, but he's not broken.
- Unreall

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Everyone: don't take what tuscan says seriously, the person has an axe to grind against cage and look at karma. I know I'm not allowed to call out forum users or w/e, but honestly...don't waste your time(Unless you just like mythbusting or something).

If he doesn't get nerfed, I could care less. I have a fully upgraded cage in my roster featuring a level 5 red power. Given my roster I enjoy lots of ISO and lots of covers. Fact is Cage is lopsided in terms of his powers. Look at his rating. Again, keep him status quo as long as you want - I'll reap the benefits. I'm just stating facts.



If D3 does nothing about this guy then I don't care. His red power shuts down matches, and his yellow power is unreal. I put all other upgrades on hold when I got this guy.

My spiderman is fine, but with cage you don't need to try to shut the match down. And spiderman doesn't have another wild offensive move.

Unknown

tuscan panty raider wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Everyone: don't take what tuscan says seriously, the person has an axe to grind against cage and look at karma. I know I'm not allowed to call out forum users or w/e, but honestly...don't waste your time(Unless you just like mythbusting or something).

If he doesn't get nerfed, I could care less. I have a fully upgraded cage in my roster featuring a level 5 red power. Given my roster I enjoy lots of ISO and lots of covers. Fact is Cage is lopsided in terms of his powers. Look at his rating. Again, keep him status quo as long as you want - I'll reap the benefits. I'm just stating facts.



If D3 does nothing about this guy then I don't care. His red power shuts down matches, and his yellow power is unreal. I put all other upgrades on hold when I got this guy.

My spiderman is fine, but with cage you don't need to try to shut the match down. And spiderman doesn't have another wild offensive move.

'He's getting nerfed' is not a 'fact'.

'Lopsided covers' is not a 'fact'.

If you truly 'don't care', stop spreading misinformation, there's people who read these boards who don't necessarily know who to trust.

Think of the nubs.