*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

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  • yknow what nevermind thats why im retired from this forsaken place....
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    yknow what nevermind thats why im retired from this forsaken place....
    yet you've posted a dozen times, TODAY
  • fmftint wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    yknow what nevermind thats why im retired from this forsaken place....
    yet you've posted a dozen times, TODAY
    Ah, you can count.

    Yet, you must work on your ability to comprehend.

    I will put you on ignore hope you come closer to ascension.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    fmftint wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    yknow what nevermind thats why im retired from this forsaken place....
    yet you've posted a dozen times, TODAY
    Ah, you can count.

    Yet, you must work on your ability to comprehend.
    Let me guess... the definition of "retired" has evolved, right?
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ignore Raisin, he throws a tantrum if you dont agree with his builds. You aren't allowed to discuss any other possible ones.

    My Cage is 5/5/3 and shall always remain so. I team him up with squishier characters quite often so I like having them safer. I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    I suppose that depends on what your roster and playstyle is like. I have a large enough roster that I pretty much only use boosted three-stars, so stats when boosted matter more to me. But those who are developing their three-star rosters may not have that luxury.
    If I did decide to make a second Cage I'd probably build him 5/5/3 though. Yellow is a lot easier to use than black, after all.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    True, but for a lot of characters, that's the only time you'd want to use them, so it's not necessarily a bad idea.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
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    That's a unique issue that evolved from the recent structure changes. Do you take your less used characters and spec them expressly to the role you want them to play during a boosted sequence? What if they're boosted around other characters that don't support that?

    I fall squarely in the 5/5/3 camp with Cage. I could pair him with Psylocke and Danny, since Psylocke solves two problems at once: Active red and blue. Sadly, Cage is only 120 on my Roster.

    Cue sad trombones.
  • Someone else said it more diplomatically than I would have, but yeah if you have a sizable roster, then you usually only pull someone out if they are boosted or they blend so well with said boosted character. For me, Cage is really just 'when boosted', Ultron, PvE, or when I do 'Mirror Matches' for fun in the simulator. Just like one Hood deserves another, so does one Cage. So to me, when Cage is boosted is the most important scenario, and frankly even when not boosted, the results are just about the same. A character with only one useful attack and it being 'high AP' isn't exactly a great thing (yes I'm pro 535, but lets crank numbers).

    Think about Hood, he has one massive attack, one..'jab' if you will and then his monster passive. I keep comparing Cage to Hood and its a prime example, yellow for yellow are pretty close, Hood gets shake-up, but turn ends, red to blue are virtually the same thing, preservation through AP starving/and dmg reduction, and then their blacks - one does a set dmg of like 1100 or something, but has the benefit of running down CDs (not OP anymore, but fun with Loki), while the other @ 3 covers is 'just' a dmg dealer with a low AP requirement, and a better dmg/ap ratio.

    But @ 5 covers for black? You get stun added, dmg added, and at the expense of a protect tile that will still nullify match dmg, and that when @ 5 covers is good for strikes, but still gets eaten up by any meaningful attack.

    I think you have to ask yourself how much dmg are you really saving verse losing...

    @ 3 covers...141 dmg mitigation...so it would take matches of more than 47 per AP to do any dmg more than '1'
    @ 5 covers...268 dmg mitigation...so it would take 89.3+ to do more than '1'. Is it better yes, but...


    Average color match is between 61-70 @ 3* level => 183 to 210 per match. @ 3 Covers that's a net of 42 to 69 dmg. Outside of a few outliers like Loki and Hood, that's a less than 1% of your health, that's negligible. So in essence, @ 3 covers you are destroying the majority of match dmg/nullifying it. The difference only plays up when strike tiles start accelerating dmg, but that's universal, if there is a Sentry strike on the board, you are just shaving off an additional 127 per move, somewhere between 1-2% of the total health saved...its a constant reduction, not linear (in short that **** will still hurt like hell).

    Comparing that to black...
    @ 3 covers...783/2596 or 130.5/432.6 Dmg per AP
    @ 5 covers...1044/4340 or 174/723.3 Dmg per AP + stun

    Right now? 600 dmg per AP is considered top of the line, IMHB is at 630 if memory serves, and most strong attacks float around 600, his black crosses into '700' territory AND adds stun when @ 5 covers. That's close to broken, but the math does have to be slightly revamped for accuracy.

    @ 3 covers...(1)...783...130.5 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(2)...3379...281.6 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(3)...5975...331.9 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(4)...8571...357.1 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(5)...11167...372.2 dmg per AP

    @ 5 covers...(1)...1044...174 dmg per AP
    @ 5 covers...(2)...5384...448.6 dmg per AP +1 stun
    @ 5 covers...(3)...9724...540.2 dmg per AP +2 stun
    @ 5 covers...(4)...14064...586 dmg per AP +3 stun
    @ 5 covers...(5)...18404...613.5 dmg per AP +4 stun
    *stun doesn't stack, but can be distributed among enemy team, and then re-applied


    So it's not quite HB, but @ 5 covers, it grows into something 'stronger'...substantially stronger. Let's see if I can compare...*freestyling post sorry*

    Red @ 5 covers vs 3, is worth about -14 to -23 dmg per AP. That is an average, there will be outliers to that like strikes and attacks, but based solely on matches, as that is where it excels, that's the difference between the two.

    Black @ 5 covers vs 3, is worth anywhere from +50 dmg to ap to (stopping at the realistic 18 AP) +208 dmg per ap.

    From a pure number stand point it looks to me like black is the way to go. Adding in stun, only having ONE other attack and it being a high AP one so you don't fire it off much (which matters greatly when boosted as there is a good chance of a Mirror Cage fight), makes me lean towards black further. Just for kicks, going against tile changes like Loki and SHulk, make you feel better about the lower tile as well (ironically).

    I'll just say go 535.

    and if you see an error in anything I wrote, please feel free to let me know/adjust. I'm currently 552, so I've got NO problem being corrected into 553 hahaha
    - Unreall
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Quebbster wrote:
    I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    I suppose that depends on what your roster and playstyle is like. I have a large enough roster that I pretty much only use boosted three-stars, so stats when boosted matter more to me. But those who are developing their three-star rosters may not have that luxury.
    If I did decide to make a second Cage I'd probably build him 5/5/3 though. Yellow is a lot easier to use than black, after all.

    I'm more just talking about a boosted Cage, rather than any boosted characters. Since my Cage has been maxed, he's been a boosted character only twice. For me, it wouldn't make much sense to make him 5 black just because it dishes out 6000 damage when he's boosted when I would only have benefited from that during two periods.
  • Ignore Raisin, he throws a tantrum if you dont agree with his builds. You aren't allowed to discuss any other possible ones.

    My Cage is 5/5/3 and shall always remain so. I team him up with squishier characters quite often so I like having them safer. I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    you're kidding right? thanks for exposing yourself to be ignored.

    As I have said before, I am here for the everyman. The person who searches the forums and doesn't know much, so they only have one shot.

    Evidence has exonerated me time and time again.
    I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted

    AHAHAHHAHAHAH WHY DID I EVEN BOTHER REPLYING TO THE FIRST PART.

    HAHAHAHAHAHH
    Quebbster wrote:
    I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    I suppose that depends on what your roster and playstyle is like. I have a large enough roster that I pretty much only use boosted three-stars, so stats when boosted matter more to me. But those who are developing their three-star rosters may not have that luxury.
    If I did decide to make a second Cage I'd probably build him 5/5/3 though. Yellow is a lot easier to use than black, after all.

    black is easier to use since we have black producers and yellow doesn't really
    Someone else said it more diplomatically than I would have, but yeah if you have a sizable roster, then you usually only pull someone out if they are boosted or they blend so well with said boosted character. For me, Cage is really just 'when boosted', Ultron, PvE, or when I do 'Mirror Matches' for fun in the simulator. Just like one Hood deserves another, so does one Cage. So to me, when Cage is boosted is the most important scenario, and frankly even when not boosted, the results are just about the same. A character with only one useful attack and it being 'high AP' isn't exactly a great thing (yes I'm pro 535, but lets crank numbers).

    Think about Hood, he has one massive attack, one..'jab' if you will and then his monster passive. I keep comparing Cage to Hood and its a prime example, yellow for yellow are pretty close, Hood gets shake-up, but turn ends, red to blue are virtually the same thing, preservation through AP starving/and dmg reduction, and then their blacks - one does a set dmg of like 1100 or something, but has the benefit of running down CDs (not OP anymore, but fun with Loki), while the other @ 3 covers is 'just' a dmg dealer with a low AP requirement, and a better dmg/ap ratio.

    But @ 5 covers for black? You get stun added, dmg added, and at the expense of a protect tile that will still nullify match dmg, and that when @ 5 covers is good for strikes, but still gets eaten up by any meaningful attack.

    I think you have to ask yourself how much dmg are you really saving verse losing...

    @ 3 covers...141 dmg mitigation...so it would take matches of more than 47 per AP to do any dmg more than '1'
    @ 5 covers...268 dmg mitigation...so it would take 89.3+ to do more than '1'. Is it better yes, but...


    Average color match is between 61-70 @ 3* level => 183 to 210 per match. @ 3 Covers that's a net of 42 to 69 dmg. Outside of a few outliers like Loki and Hood, that's a less than 1% of your health, that's negligible. So in essence, @ 3 covers you are destroying the majority of match dmg/nullifying it. The difference only plays up when strike tiles start accelerating dmg, but that's universal, if there is a Sentry strike on the board, you are just shaving off an additional 127 per move, somewhere between 1-2% of the total health saved...its a constant reduction, not linear (in short that **** will still hurt like hell).

    Comparing that to black...
    @ 3 covers...783/2596 or 130.5/432.6 Dmg per AP
    @ 5 covers...1044/4340 or 174/723.3 Dmg per AP + stun

    Right now? 600 dmg per AP is considered top of the line, IMHB is at 630 if memory serves, and most strong attacks float around 600, his black crosses into '700' territory AND adds stun when @ 5 covers. That's close to broken, but the math does have to be slightly revamped for accuracy.

    @ 3 covers...(1)...783...130.5 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(2)...3379...281.6 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(3)...5975...331.9 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(4)...8571...357.1 dmg per AP
    @ 3 covers...(5)...11167...372.2 dmg per AP

    @ 5 covers...(1)...1044...174 dmg per AP
    @ 5 covers...(2)...5384...448.6 dmg per AP +1 stun
    @ 5 covers...(3)...9724...540.2 dmg per AP +2 stun
    @ 5 covers...(4)...14064...586 dmg per AP +3 stun
    @ 5 covers...(5)...18404...613.5 dmg per AP +4 stun
    *stun doesn't stack, but can be distributed among enemy team, and then re-applied


    So it's not quite HB, but @ 5 covers, it grows into something 'stronger'...substantially stronger. Let's see if I can compare...*freestyling post sorry*

    Red @ 5 covers vs 3, is worth about -14 to -23 dmg per AP. That is an average, there will be outliers to that like strikes and attacks, but based solely on matches, as that is where it excels, that's the difference between the two.

    Black @ 5 covers vs 3, is worth anywhere from +50 dmg to ap to (stopping at the realistic 18 AP) +208 dmg per ap.

    From a pure number stand point it looks to me like black is the way to go. Adding in stun, only having ONE other attack and it being a high AP one so you don't fire it off much (which matters greatly when boosted as there is a good chance of a Mirror Cage fight), makes me lean towards black further. Just for kicks, going against tile changes like Loki and SHulk, make you feel better about the lower tile as well (ironically).

    I'll just say go 535.

    and if you see an error in anything I wrote, please feel free to let me know/adjust. I'm currently 552, so I've got NO problem being corrected into 553 hahaha
    - Unreall

    now the argument has went full circle again, /popcorn
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    black is easier to use since we have black producers and yellow doesn't really
    Yeah, but I'm an impatient bastard. My least favorite thing about Cage is having to save up a big load of black AP before unleashing the Jabs.
    Yellow is simple. BOOM! Lights out.
  • Quebbster wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    black is easier to use since we have black producers and yellow doesn't really
    Yeah, but I'm an impatient bastard. My least favorite thing about Cage is having to save up a big load of black AP before unleashing the Jabs.
    Yellow is simple. BOOM! Lights out.
    I'm really trying to understand you....black costs "12" and yellow costs 13, not to mention the best tile converter in the game makes black.

    But I agree about cage's yellow...really I use cage's yellow more than thor's yellow, even when he was 290 in lord of thunder.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    black is easier to use since we have black producers and yellow doesn't really
    Yeah, but I'm an impatient bastard. My least favorite thing about Cage is having to save up a big load of black AP before unleashing the Jabs.
    Yellow is simple. BOOM! Lights out.
    I'm really trying to understand you....black costs "12" and yellow costs 13, not to mention the best tile converter in the game makes black.

    But I agree about cage's yellow...really I use cage's yellow more than thor's yellow, even when he was 290 in lord of thunder.
    Yeah, but when you have 12 black you have to decide if you're going to wait until you have 18 black for even greater effect... and then 24... and then 30... Granted, I don't think I have ever needed to Jab for 30 black AP with a fully leveled Cage, but still...
    Yellow is kind of the reverse. You want to use it as soon as possible so you don't lose a character and hit for less.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    Ignore Raisin, he throws a tantrum if you dont agree with his builds. You aren't allowed to discuss any other possible ones.

    My Cage is 5/5/3 and shall always remain so. I team him up with squishier characters quite often so I like having them safer. I also dont think you can build a character on when they are boosted, its not like its something that occurs that often.
    you're kidding right? thanks for exposing yourself to be ignored.

    Oh no, what will I do now you're ignoring me? All you do is attack people when they dont agree with you, so you are doing me a favour. icon_cool.gif
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Generally, I never unleash black on 12. I save it up, and fire on 18. Thats over 4500 damage for me from my 3 covered level 130 Cage, and I'm cool with that.
  • Quebbster wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    black is easier to use since we have black producers and yellow doesn't really
    Yeah, but I'm an impatient bastard. My least favorite thing about Cage is having to save up a big load of black AP before unleashing the Jabs.
    Yellow is simple. BOOM! Lights out.
    I'm really trying to understand you....black costs "12" and yellow costs 13, not to mention the best tile converter in the game makes black.

    But I agree about cage's yellow...really I use cage's yellow more than thor's yellow, even when he was 290 in lord of thunder.
    Yeah, but when you have 12 black you have to decide if you're going to wait until you have 18 black for even greater effect... and then 24... and then 30... Granted, I don't think I have ever needed to Jab for 30 black AP with a fully leveled Cage, but still...
    Yellow is kind of the reverse. You want to use it as soon as possible so you don't lose a character and hit for less.
    I've been thinking about this....99% of the time I'll do black as soon as I get 12. Most likely, someone will be dead from that. There are certain situations(usually PVE) where I'll wait for more purple(for iron fist) to create more than 12 black, but, 8 times out of 10, 12 is good enough.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    raisinbman wrote:
    I've been thinking about this....99% of the time I'll do black as soon as I get 12. Most likely, someone will be dead from that. There are certain situations(usually PVE) where I'll wait for more purple(for iron fist) to create more than 12 black, but, 8 times out of 10, 12 is good enough.
    Well, then our experiences differ. I'll usually wait until 18 AP at least before cutting loose. I'll absolutely use it at 12 if there's immediate benefit, but the longer you wait the greater the payout.
  • It's often a 'finisher' for me, either his yellow didn't all the way put someone down, or some other z0mg attack wasn't fatal when I need it to be, so I may need a couple or few thousand more dmg 'right now' and that's when the 'combination' comes out...for instance Hulk or Thor with too many yellows
    - Unreall
  • Jam_Adams
    Jam_Adams Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
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    first world problems, people.

    I am on Day 294 and haven't even had the privilege of receiving a single Cage cover.

    sadface