*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

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  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Jam_Adams wrote:
    I am on Day 294 and haven't even had the privilege of receiving a single Cage cover.sadface
    Didn't we just have an event where Cage covers were given out?
  • simonsez wrote:
    Jam_Adams wrote:
    I am on Day 294 and haven't even had the privilege of receiving a single Cage cover.sadface
    Didn't we just have an event where Cage covers were given out?
    Technically two...
    - Unreall
  • Two events, 5 covers.
  • Jam_Adams wrote:
    first world problems, people.

    I am on Day 294 and haven't even had the privilege of receiving a single Cage cover.

    sadface

    without trying I got enough covers to pin cage at 166. Given that to me he is overpowered, it's great since he is so apt to kick 4ss all over the place.
  • Hi, all.

    New user here, and admit to being too lazy to read through all previous posts.

    I skimmed a few and saw good arguments for 5/3/5 and 5/5/3, but has 5/4/4 been discussed at all?

    I am currently sitting on a 5/4/4 Cage and would like some insight from more experience players. Is 5/4/4 valid enough since black still gets to stun?
  • JamieMadrox
    JamieMadrox Posts: 1,798 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Matapiojo wrote:
    Hi, all.

    New user here, and admit to being too lazy to read through all previous posts.

    I skimmed a few and saw good arguments for 5/3/5 and 5/5/3, but has 5/4/4 been discussed at all?

    I am currently sitting on a 5/4/4 Cage and would like some insight from more experience players. Is 5/4/4 valid enough since black still gets to stun?
    Generally the jump in power from 4 covers to 5 covers is significant enough to make it better to have one at 5 and one at 3. In this case, 5 red means less health packs on offense and longer/harder matches for your opponents on defense. Black is good, but only effective at 12 AP so you might as well collect 13 Yellow and use Uppercut.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ... on the other hand, since he's often paired with IF, collecting 12/18 black is pretty easy.
  • Simon sez'd it before I could. Because of pairing, (1) and more often than not denial (2), its real easy to fall into a high number of black. Their are black batteries too, yellow though...either Hood/Loki or Thor are the only people I can think of who dump more yellow on the board *specifically* or add to your yellow AP.

    The third thing I've seen more and more with Cage, he can often can get paired with a strike user, I've been using Patch/Cage/IF for PvE and those strikes with TWO attacks is NASTY...and that's with just two blacks...been stuck at 552 for forever, and the more and more I use Cage, the harder I see to justify the 5 in red and not do the 5 in black. It erases match dmg, but that's about it, the big attacks are STILL big attacks, and outside of say Surfer, that's where the heavies do their dmg. When a 4* hits you for almost 10k dmg, they don't care that you took '1' dmg for every match they did to that point. When a boosted Hood pops his yellow, he doesn't care. And of course in PvE - team Dark Avengers - Moonstone LOVES to steal the tile, often when it's been on the board for a long time i.e. in a place you can't get to it easy.

    More than most characters I do think Cage can get away with a non-optimized build of like 544, and I'm not saying 553 is bad by any stretch, that tile often acts like PX's inviz move at the end of a close match, but the game is so offensive minded these days, and black so readily available, that I won't hesitate to go 535.
    - Unreall
  • Ive mainly been pairing him with patch (5/3/5) and doom (5/3/5). Which cage would you think better mixes with those two?
  • I'd go 535 if paired with a strike tile generator *period*. Doom has a chance - especially onb defense - of blocking Cage from dropping a protect tiles. Doom is "relatively" high health, and Patch has healing, so the protect isn't necessary anyways. I'd wager (guessing as I've done no math) that the average dmg of 'Summon Demon' will get out-paced by a Cage black at 5.
    - Unreall
  • Thats good enough analysis for me. Thank you.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2015
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    I like 5/5/3 because on defense the computer doesn't know how to effectively use black for cage so that is (one reason) why I prefer to have the maxed out red protection. Since I normally choose Cage on the team for his defense, I know it will slow down a match and deter attacks on me especially when he is paired with other damage dealing characters. I have plenty of other pretty good black abilities on my roster but not very many good yellow damage dealers and good red passive abilities, so that is why I go for 5/5/3 myself.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Warbringa wrote:
    I like 5/5/3 because on defense the computer doesn't know how to effectively use black for cage
    That should never determine your build. The AI doesn't know how to use power surge before smite. Does that mean you want GT's blue at 3? The AI didn't now how to use Sacrifice and Intimidate after a World Rupture, so did that mean you didn't spec your Sentry/Hood for Sentry bombing?

    People are going to beat your Cage regardless of how you spec him. The build should be determined by which way he's more usable to YOU.
  • ah I don't feel bad now for feeling that way heh.

    The game is 95% offense. Defensive deterrents are mostly set by sheer level and character choice, not power selection. XFDP & Thing could have the worst possible power selections, but people still won't want to fight it. Stormneto could have the best possible setup, and they'll still get cooked.

    And true story, during PvPs where Cage is powered up, single jabs have been game altering. Dat Stun Son...
    - Unreall
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    Warbringa wrote:
    I like 5/5/3 because on defense the computer doesn't know how to effectively use black for cage
    That should never determine your build. The AI doesn't know how to use power surge before smite. Does that mean you want GT's blue at 3? The AI didn't now how to use Sacrifice and Intimidate after a World Rupture, so did that mean you didn't spec your Sentry/Hood for Sentry bombing?

    People are going to beat your Cage regardless of how you spec him. The build should be determined by which way he's more usable to YOU.

    I did mention in my post that I use Cage on my team primarily for his defense. I think perhaps how I wrote the first line was misleading, yes I know that is never the primary reason to choose how a character is covered. I was pointing out that I see the poor AI use and the ability to slow down matches on the defense as to additional reasons I like 5 in red instead of black. It is was not the primary reason I chose that build.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ah I don't feel bad now for feeling that way heh.

    The game is 95% offense. Defensive deterrents are mostly set by sheer level and character choice, not power selection. XFDP & Thing could have the worst possible power selections, but people still won't want to fight it. Stormneto could have the best possible setup, and they'll still get cooked.

    And true story, during PvPs where Cage is powered up, single jabs have been game altering. Dat Stun Son...
    - Unreall

    While I choose Cage to have 5 red to save me health packs primarily, an additional bonus for me is his defense on PvP. I see two main strategies as PvP deterrents - 1.) sheer offensive power that causes them to lose a lot of health and need to use health packs 2.) long, time consuming matches that take too much time for the value of points

    You will lose matches regardless as we know but I think most people try to avoid both options 1 and/or 2 when picking opponents. I like Cage to give me number 2 along with other characters that provide usually option 1 (damage) but sometimes option 2 (depending on boosted characters etc.)
  • Understood, but I "figure" the higher ups are at my level or better - and I'm not deterred by Cage, as I mentioned previously, match dmg to me is just 'bonus'. I'm at the 4* transition and between the sheer health of characters averaging 10k and 14 AP being good enough to chop off 70% of that, his red doesn't affect me or them...he still gets killed in one or two special moves from a hard hitting 4* and 2-3 from the average hard hitting 3*...so the red just doesn't seem to do too much except in battles of attrition which are super rare (ah my Groot vs Groot today...)...and when you factor in being boosted, the extra dmg from his jab is just dumb, compared to his red which is 'meh' and these days, 70% of what you see are 'boosted' characters (exceptions usually being synergy or batteries like Wanda and IF).

    Don't get me wrong, as I've said, he's good enough that the only flawed build would be 355, but I've just lost interest in red as my roster is crawling over the 3* hump. He was one of the characters I considered good enough to play hand and hand with the 4*, but in that scenerio he reduces to his black and yellow.
    - Unreall
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think Unreal has a point, when it comes to teams who are transitioning to 4*. Currently, I still have no 4* even close to being usable so very much still in 3* land. I think for someone in 3* land, that protect tile is far more valuable due to the much lower health of characters. Once you reach 4*, then perhaps 5/3/5 does become the build to go with.
  • eaise
    eaise Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
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    I think Unreal has a point, when it comes to teams who are transitioning to 4*. Currently, I still have no 4* even close to being usable so very much still in 3* land. I think for someone in 3* land, that protect tile is far more valuable due to the much lower health of characters. Once you reach 4*, then perhaps 5/3/5 does become the build to go with.

    As a 3* player I chose 5/3/5 for Cage. A lot more helpful for offense and speed in matches. You do take some match damage but the power you get from 5 black is worth it. Though if you are trying to use Cage as a scarecrow for a defense team then 5/5/3 might be better since the AI doesn't use his black effectively.
    Either build is good I just find 5 black mandatory since I pair him with Fist often
  • XandorXerxes
    XandorXerxes Posts: 340 Mover and Shaker
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    Wanted to follow up on the 5/5/3 vs 5/3/5 discussion. I've had Cage at 5/5/3 because of how covers fell, but I just got my 4th black. Cage has been my go-to guy for PvP because I can usually get to 700 or so without using a health pack. On the flip side, at 5/3/5 he'd end matches closer to 1000 faster, which is always needed. I assume at 5/3/5 though (or 5/4/4 since that's where I'll be until PDP) I'll be taking a lot more damage from regular matches. Am I wrong? I believe it's 79/70/61 for damage, and I'd go from blocking 268 to 141. That's an extra 96/69/42 damage per match-3 (5/4/4 would be an extra 54/28/0 damage per match-3) and more per match-4+. I can't imagine that's nearly as effective for climbing, as I can see that adding up pretty quick. If you averaged 25 match-3s a round you're taking 1750 damage per round more - which is an extra healthkit every 5-8 rounds. Averaging 40 PvP points / round, going from 100 to 700 would take you 15 rounds so that's an extra 2-3 kits.

    Wouldn't Cage better be served as a 5/5/3 for climbing then switching to someone like Cyclops at higher levels? Or do those 2-3 kits not really matter in the long run?