Upcoming PVE End Times Testing (*Updated)

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  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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    "David wrote:
    Moore"]*Update (12/03/14): The plan for this test is to have 5 selectable end times similar to how the Versus end time selection works. To keep variables down on the test, we're leaving the Sub-Event timers the same, which means that they're going to be 12 hour subs. This will help us to nail down any bugs that may appear. Specifically, we can rule out anything related to the changing of sub times.

    A reminder - when selecting your end time, choosing a final end time in the afternoon may mean that previous subs end early in the morning.

    12 hour subs? That sounds terrible! Some people may miss out on entire subs due to IRL schedules. Also, if something is borked during the rollout, it doesn't give people much time to adjust since the subs are so short.
  • Seems like an odd choice of event to test PvE end testing since if all subs are 12 hours then people are going to have bad timezone for roughly half of them regardless of what time zone you're in.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Seems like an odd choice of event to test PvE end testing since if all subs are 12 hours then people are going to have bad timezone for roughly half of them regardless of what time zone you're in.

    I thought that this was the event with a bunch of 24 hour subs with one 36 hour sub in the middle that flips the endtimes 12 hours. That was my interpretation of his 12 hour remark. If so, no need to enter until the 36 hour sub.
  • papa07 wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Seems like an odd choice of event to test PvE end testing since if all subs are 12 hours then people are going to have bad timezone for roughly half of them regardless of what time zone you're in.

    I thought that this was the event with a bunch of 24 hour subs with one 36 hour sub in the middle that flips the endtimes 12 hours. That was my interpretation of his 12 hour remark. If so, no need to enter until the 36 hour sub.

    My take is that the sub themselves are just 12 hours. I hope that is not the case.
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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    Phantron wrote:
    My take is that the sub themselves are just 12 hours. I hope that is not the case.

    That's also how I interpreted it.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Alliances exist because they cause players to stick around longer than if they play individually. The Devs want people in alliances. But if they also want to impose game changes that serve individual players at the expense of the alliance (and season) system, they need to eliminate alliances. They can't have it both ways. There should not be a significant feature of the game that is then rendered meaningless by these constant changes.

    That's really an entirely different argument. Your original point talked about the primary source of covers, and individual placement >>>>>>> alliance covers in that regard.

    As far as this argument goes, I agree in the general sense, alliances are necessary. They build socialization which builds enjoyment in playing the game. But it's definitely not about competitive play. The 750th place alliance in Grocket is averaging about 10k per player in the event. Top 10 is at 47.3k. That's a massive disparity in effort, and we're still only talking about the top 15k alliance players. Based on the 120k participation number, that's still another 100k worth of players that are even further behind than that (or just not in an alliance at all).

    At that level, a boost in individual placement via a better time slice will greatly benefit them, and thus their alliance. The players at the top of the food chain will be mostly unaffected. Whether you finish 1st or 20th or 50th means very little in the grand scheme of things. You're talking about 3k in ISO and 150 HP between 1st and 50th. It means nothing (except ego) when you consider at that level the resource spending far exceeds those numbers.

    So overall you're looking at the group in the roughly 70-130 range who would be most hurt by slight changes in their ability to score well, and while you'd like to cater to those 1200 people, that's 1% of the 120k playing a given event. I'm not gonna say they don't matter, but they don't matter enough to cater a system around them.
  • DuckyV wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    My take is that the sub themselves are just 12 hours. I hope that is not the case.

    That's also how I interpreted it.

    I agree that is how it reads, but I don't think that was the intent. I think the 12 hour remark was related to spacing of sub endtimes, which has been the bulk of the discussion here. I am expecting the standard 24-24-24-24-36-24-24-24-24 format
  • They need to clarify which. 12 hour subs will be terrible and will completely undermine the test. That needs to not happen.
  • I'm totally looking forward to you NOT replying to the community's questions about THIS change once you implement it.

    So...Christmas is the next big holiday coming up....i guess we can expect you guys to pull a US congress and disappear in T-minus ....wait...where did everyone go?

    Guess we won't hear from you after new Years either.

    New D3 news coming Easter 2015...But it won't be anything that the community has been asking about.

    Working as intended i guess...but your loyal customers deserve so much more.

    Marc
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Phantron wrote:
    I read the event as Unstable Isotope the first time so I thought it was one of those 'I got good news and bad news' deal.

    Doesn't Iso 8 Brotherhood completely flip the timezone around the halfway mark? Has this been redesigned to account for PvE end time is selectable? From what I recall the first half is on one time zone and the second half is 12 hours later than the first timezone to make things fair. If it's still the same way then it'd not really matter what timezone you pick because you'd still be screwed half of the time.

    No, you just need to pick smart. Like 8pm/8am in my local timezone would work great, whereas the current 3am/3pm default is beyond terrible. 7am/7pm and 9am/9pm are also workable. Once you get outside of those ranges work or sleep become an issue.
  • So to get it straight(ter) - for this event, when choosing end time, you should look at both hour you want to end, and also 12 hour earlier/later, as those two will be swapping?
  • Thanks for the feedback David.

    I've got to agree with the guys that 12 hour subs isn't going to be the best test-bed because it doesn't reflect typical PvE behaviour (but does make testing more 'agile' to issues). However I appreciate that it does teach people not to expect that picking your timeslice means that subs will end in 24hr increments before that time. Not sure that's a great idea, as people are going to expect a 9pm finish to also mean 9pm for the subs.

    5 slices seems like a lot. Especially in this 12 hour format. The reason for that is that in the current 1 slice format it can take anywhere between 1-3hrs for main brackets to fill following the start of the event. Assuming same bracket size and equal distribution of players (somewhat unlikely) then that translates to 5-15hrs for a slice bracket to fill.

    At the low end (5hrs) that represents 2 clears, which isn't a disaster but is quite a bit in a 12 hour sub format. At the high end (15hrs) that could mean some people starting an entire sub behind others... and that really is an issue.

    I'd suggest that the ideal format for time sliced PvE is 3 or 4 (at most) selectable slices to minimise 'slow fill' problems, and fixed 24hr/48hr subs to avoid to risk of people being a 'sub behind' in the rankings and give more consistency to your expected finish times.

    Thanks again for giving an update.
  • I can't believe it is 12 hour subs. That would be dumber than a very dumb thing.
  • Could we have the complete schedule (at least once) for all subs in this event please ?

    12 hours is not a lot, therefore, if one picks the wrong time slice, he will end up selecting "night time" sub automatically. From what I understand, if I want to have the subs during daytime, I need to select the End Time in the middle of the night ?

    I'm not sure making a first test on a PvE with subs was the best idea, but we'll see.

    Deadpool vs MPQ would have been wiser, and easier for everyone. It would have been a good start.
  • Yeah, I can see this general reaction from the player base:

    MPQ: Select your event end time...

    Av Joe: Wow, great! I'm going for 6pm, that sounds good.

    MPQ: Next sub ends... at 6am.

    Av Joe: RARGHETHTNEHTHWHHF!!!!!!!WTTTTTTFFFFFFF!!!!????

    It's either ballsy, mad or a kind of genius outside of my comprehension. Not sure.
  • What I'm worried about with PVE time slots, is that the whole community will be divided by brackets just as in PVP. The issue is that rubberbanding will not work as it works now. I don't think people in smaller brackets will be able to rubberband correctly. A positive thing is that brackets might be less competitive and ranking should not drop dramatically.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Okin107 wrote:
    A positive thing is that brackets might be less competitive and ranking should not drop dramatically.
    Lol no.
    But instead of losing places overnight, you'll lose places during the day when you can't hit every refresh, because mostly people will sleep when you do.

    If there's old rewards it won't be competitive, but expect stuff like a new 4* release like we just had to be hell on earth again, regardless of slice.
  • Okin107 wrote:
    What I'm worried about with PVE time slots, is that the whole community will be divided by brackets just as in PVP. The issue is that rubberbanding will not work as it works now. I don't think people in smaller brackets will be able to rubberband correctly. A positive thing is that brackets might be less competitive and ranking should not drop dramatically.

    This might be their way of 'fixing' progression rewards, by making them hard to hit again instead of automatic for anyone with semi-consistent effort.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    "David wrote:
    Moore"]*Update (12/03/14): The plan for this test is to have 5 selectable end times similar to how the Versus end time selection works. To keep variables down on the test, we're leaving the Sub-Event timers the same, which means that they're going to be 12 hour subs. This will help us to nail down any bugs that may appear. Specifically, we can rule out anything related to the changing of sub times.

    A reminder - when selecting your end time, choosing a final end time in the afternoon may mean that previous subs end early in the morning.

    One additional question is when you choose an end time will you automaticly be placed in a bracket like PVP? This could cause major issues if you choose your time slice right away but don't start for a couple hours in.
  • hex706f726368
    hex706f726368 Posts: 421 Mover and Shaker
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    "David wrote:
    Moore"]*Update (12/03/14): The plan for this test is to have 5 selectable end times similar to how the Versus end time selection works. To keep variables down on the test, we're leaving the Sub-Event timers the same, which means that they're going to be 12 hour subs. This will help us to nail down any bugs that may appear. Specifically, we can rule out anything related to the changing of sub times.

    A reminder - when selecting your end time, choosing a final end time in the afternoon may mean that previous subs end early in the morning.

    FTFY: To keep the variables down for the developers on the test...

    You're keeping the end-times variable for the players despite providing the illusion of selectable end times. This beta test is failing before it even launches.

    You can do better.