*** Mystique (Raven Darkholme) ***

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  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheHueyFreeman wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    vudu3 wrote:
    TheHueyFreeman wrote:
    Nothing about the fact that if shapeshifting is up for three turns, the team is essentially stunlocked?
    Huh?

    He probably thinks the CD stuns a target 2 turn each turn it's out? Although that's not the first thing I thought of when I read the ability I can certainly see how someone can read it that way.
    Does it just stun someone once?

    Yes. When the ability is cast it stuns the target once for 2 turns.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    In talk about Mystique's AP steal, she does have a few things going for her over the Hood, but that doesnt' mean I think she is a better character.

    1.) As long as that tile is out and they don't match TU's, you will always steal, you cannot guarentee a steal always for Hood, although it is more than likely he will steal something per turn.

    2.) You can influence what the AI will give you in terms of AP. How? If you are good at board manipulation you can set it up for doubles or 4 matches for the AI so they will prioritze that and you can get it.

    3.) AI cascades are good for once!!!!! Well sortof icon_e_smile.gif You could end up with a load of AP at the cost of someone getting their **** kicked.
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 Posts: 543 Critical Contributor
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    In talk about Mystique's AP steal, she does have a few things going for her over the Hood, but that doesnt' mean I think she is a better character.

    1.) As long as that tile is out and they don't match TU's, you will always steal, you cannot guarentee a steal always for Hood, although it is more than likely he will steal something per turn.

    2.) You can influence what the AI will give you in terms of AP. How? If you are good at board manipulation you can set it up for doubles or 4 matches for the AI so they will prioritze that and you can get it.

    3.) AI cascades are good for once!!!!! Well sortof icon_e_smile.gif You could end up with a load of AP at the cost of someone getting their **** kicked.

    actually at 5 pink covers she steals whatever the AI matches including TU's
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,767 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    In talk about Mystique's AP steal, she does have a few things going for her over the Hood, but that doesnt' mean I think she is a better character.

    1.) As long as that tile is out and they don't match TU's, you will always steal, you cannot guarentee a steal always for Hood, although it is more than likely he will steal something per turn.

    2.) You can influence what the AI will give you in terms of AP. How? If you are good at board manipulation you can set it up for doubles or 4 matches for the AI so they will prioritze that and you can get it.

    3.) AI cascades are good for once!!!!! Well sortof icon_e_smile.gif You could end up with a load of AP at the cost of someone getting their **** kicked.

    actually at 5 pink covers she steals whatever the AI matches including TU's

    Thanks that makes her pink very interesting!!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:
    to quote my alliance mate "doesn't matter what her health is, they all sentry bomb the same" and until(if?) he gets nerfed then literally no characters will matter ever, cause at the end of the day, they'll always be sentry waiting to bomb them.

    now onto actual opinion, she does almost seem like the 3* version of OBW, but....slightly worse, i'd rather her have OBW's purple over...this thing. Torch level health but....a decent looking damage ability. probably going 5/3/5 cause transforming tiles just isn't as good as stealing ap or dealing damage.


    Hahah a that might have been me!

    A better bar to measure new characters is how fun will they be in pve and would you use them for the first 800 points in a
    Pvp. All characters are going to seem like garbage when there's a clear design intent to vary their power. This make for a very boring pvp meta where theres a clear 1 a clear 2 etc
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Been using her experimentally with MNMags and MoStorm in the current PVP. It's a lot of fun: Infiltration and Polarity Shift cycle into each other. MOTE polarizes the board while Lightning Storm and Magnetic Flux help clear the board and gain AP. Created over 15 criticals in a recent match! Can't wait til I get 5 covers in Infiltration icon_e_smile.gif I probably won't be running her in the recommended 5/3/5 build.

    It's totally impractical for defense, but is fun to play.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    I don't see why people vote for 5/3/5. Sure damage potential is nice but black is contested by other top characters whose black abilities are just flat out better: BP and X-Force. You probably want 5 in black if you are a transitioner and lack good damage options but frankly you shouldn't be relying on a squishy 5950 character with a 19 AP combo for the damage at any rate.
    Meanwhile NorthernPolarity's simulation says that Mystique blue at 5 covers is almost as good as Thunder Strike, the best yellow ability in the entire game.
  • TheHueyFreeman
    TheHueyFreeman Posts: 472 Mover and Shaker
    Just a theory, but how would she work as a 355 with 355 CMags and 553 Xforce for total board control and cascades?
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheHueyFreeman wrote:
    Just a theory, but how would she work as a 355 with 355 CMags and 553 Xforce for total board control and cascades?
    If the ooponent's strongest color is r/g/y, her blue is going to make surgical strike worse. Also, if you're using CMag, I'd much rather be using his blue instead.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    If the ooponent's strongest color is r/g/y, her blue is going to make surgical strike worse. Also, if you're using CMag, I'd much rather be using his blue instead.
    I think it could be viable after a surgical strike, though. Blast out one of the R/G/Y colors, change what's a good chunk of what's left of the other 2 colors to K/P. With higher a saturation of K/P already on the board, there is a better chance of cascades. Might refuel another (much weakened) surgical strike and give you plenty of R, G or Y.

    I don't think we're talking about a legendary combo here but something fun to play around with in a PVE or SHIELD Sim.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    orbitalint wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    If the ooponent's strongest color is r/g/y, her blue is going to make surgical strike worse. Also, if you're using CMag, I'd much rather be using his blue instead.
    I think it could be viable after a surgical strike, though. Blast out one of the R/G/Y colors, change what's a good chunk of what's left of the other 2 colors to K/P. With higher a saturation of K/P already on the board, there is a better chance of cascades. Might refuel another (much weakened) surgical strike and give you plenty of R, G or Y.

    I don't think we're talking about a legendary combo here but something fun to play around with in a PVE or SHIELD Sim.
    Or, if the enemy has purple or black as their strongest (plenty in PvE with Daken/Yelena/Moonstone/Bullseye teams), use Mystique's blue first, fuel Surgical and then fuel Shapeshift (better yet, Whales) or Masterstroke.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    Agreed. It definitely sounds versatile enough for pairing with XF. It would really be about when you used it depending on the Surgical Strike color.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    locked wrote:
    I don't see why people vote for 5/3/5. Sure damage potential is nice but black is contested by other top characters whose black abilities are just flat out better: BP and X-Force. You probably want 5 in black if you are a transitioner and lack good damage options but frankly you shouldn't be relying on a squishy 5950 character with a 19 AP combo for the damage at any rate.
    Meanwhile NorthernPolarity's simulation says that Mystique blue at 5 covers is almost as good as Thunder Strike, the best yellow ability in the entire game.

    Her blueflag.png is no where near as good as Thunderstrike. First of all, it does no damage, Thunderstrike does like 3k damage. Secondly, Thunderstrike gives Green mostly plus some minor cascades, Infiltration gives Purple and Black, which typically don't do damage. Just because the cascade potential is there doesn't make it a good power.

    I can agree somewhat that without a tank you don't want her trying to get the purple and black necessary to 7k hit someone to the face, but dismissing Masterstroke out of hand by comparing it to BP and X-Force is a mistake. This power is worthy of top tier black power. 11 AP, 7k damage, that's huge. That's Surgical Strike huge. It assumes you collected 8 purple through chains and cascades somehow, but that's not all THAT hard to accomplish really.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Changing 5 tiles to a different color twice is nothing like changing 10 tiles to the same color once.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Changing 5 tiles to a different color twice is nothing like changing 10 tiles to the same color once.

    In terms of the actual amount of tiles destroyed, it seems like it's actually pretty similar. Of course, getting 5 green AP is infinitely better than getting 3 black and 3 purple, but the actual amount of tiles is similar.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    So I don't really care about how she looks(I Think Carol takes the cake in 'please fix her fighting face' competition), what the heck is her icon?
  • MarcusGraves
    MarcusGraves Posts: 495 Mover and Shaker
    raisinbman wrote:
    what the heck is her icon?

    lips baby, cause you gunna be kissing your **** goodbye if she lands a fully powered masterstroke which btw from getting to play her as 5/3/5 in the sim only takes 2 yellow from your AP, ill take that downside for the damage done + enemy AP drain.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Changing 5 tiles to a different color twice is nothing like changing 10 tiles to the same color once.

    In terms of the actual amount of tiles destroyed, it seems like it's actually pretty similar. Of course, getting 5 green AP is infinitely better than getting 3 black and 3 purple, but the actual amount of tiles is similar.

    You're probably using it on a neutral board on the simulator, but a move like Thunder Strike you'd not use it on a neutral board. You'd wait until you have about 10-11 green and then it'd likely destroy half of the board. To do the same with 2 different colors you'd need to have 10-11 purple and black at the same time, which is considerably less likely. To be fair the limited condition for Mystique allows you to have some ability to predict what kind of cascade you can get and potentially make a better move than the predicted average, but it seems complicated enough to not be feasible at least for PvP where time is of the essence.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    MarcusGraves wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    what the heck is her icon?

    lips baby, cause you gunna be kissing your **** goodbye if she lands a fully powered masterstroke which btw from getting to play her as 5/3/5 in the sim only takes 2 yellow from your AP, ill take that downside for the damage done + enemy AP drain.

    She can masterstroke me anytime
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I don't think anyone is arguing Thunder Strike isn't better than Infiltration.

    However, Infiltration costs 3 AP less and specifically targets RGY. If you and the AI are farming Red, Green, it leaves a dangerous amount of Pink and Black to be interacted with. It seems moderately situational.

    Normally when I'm using Thor, I find I'm in a competition with the AI for Green, leaving less of it on the board.

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