*** Mystique (Raven Darkholme) ***

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Comments

  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 714 Critical Contributor
    Sentry counter this, RGY that. I dunno, maybe they just wanted to have a character that is fun to play? Sounds like fun to match a few blues, hose the board in her colors, shapeshift as one of your opponents and then strike for 7k damage.

    Maybe not effective in "All Sentry/Hood All The Time" top-tier play, but so what? No one is. There will never be an effective Sentry defender until some character has "Your whole team is immune to countdown tile damage" as a passive. How about we stop comparing every character, sight unseen, to that niche case overpowered combo, and talk about what they actually bring to the table.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    ErikPeter wrote:
    maybe they just wanted to have a character that is fun to play?
    Then they should have let you decide which tiles to overwrite with her blue, and which color to make them. That would've made her a hell of a lot more fun, added more control over your color-denial/acquire strategy, as well as give her a way to do some more damage via crits. I would've been kind of hyped for an ability like that. And then, if they removed the self-drain from her black, she then becomes a tremendous pain in the butt that I wouldn't look forward to facing. She really is like Beast, in that you can see how she could've been so much better, but instead, she's probably just a back-bencher.
  • That level of health is really depressing but i guess it makes sense not so thrilled about it but got to admit one thing, the whole shapeshifting and masterstroke add a different way to play
  • simonsez wrote:
    ErikPeter wrote:
    maybe they just wanted to have a character that is fun to play?
    Then they should have let you decide which tiles to overwrite with her blue, and which color to make them. That would've made her a hell of a lot more fun, added more control over your color-denial/acquire strategy, as well as give her a way to do some more damage via crits. I would've been kind of hyped for an ability like that. And then, if they removed the self-drain from her black, she then becomes a tremendous pain in the butt that I wouldn't look forward to facing. She really is like Beast, in that you can see how she could've been so much better, but instead, she's probably just a back-bencher.
    For 9 AP? You're asking way too much. Thor's 12 AP move is usually a game over. To me, making it random is more mischievous and representative of Mystique's personality. Sometimes there is strategy in randomness. I'm casting a dart here, but it sounds like you're the type of guy who doesn't care for Loki's illusions. And comparing anyone with a usable ability to Beast is just wrong.
  • SolidQSolidQ Posts: 237 Tile Toppler
    Intresting character. Massive steal\drain AP icon_rolleyes.gif

    Blue seems
    1 lvl - 5 Tiles Transform
    2 lvl - 6 Tiles
    3 lvl - 7 tiles
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think people seem to be grasping how strong her purple is. She steals AP by them matching those colors. So if you can pop off a quick Shapeshift anytime they match red, yellow green you are taking it. So with Sentry full combo you need 7 green, 8 yellow. If Mystique gets a great cascade, and Shapeshifts Sentry and say they have 6 green 5 yellow, depending on how big the drain gets. (i'm assuming at least 2 if not 3) then if they match yellow they might get 1 or 0 and you get 2 or 3, which in turn powers your Sentry, or you can chase blue and then just remove the red, green, blue, that avgs to convert three of each of those colors at level 5. I'm not sayings she's top tier, but I think she hoses much better than you think, however if you are boosting she does nothing.

    I could see lots of Sentry/Hood/Mystique comps in SHIELD, you would never get a skill off wants Mystique gets going.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I don't think people seem to be grasping how strong her purple is. She steals AP by them matching those colors. So if you can pop off a quick Shapeshift anytime they match red, yellow green you are taking it. So with Sentry full combo you need 7 green, 8 yellow. If Mystique gets a great cascade, and Shapeshifts Sentry and say they have 6 green 5 yellow, depending on how big the drain gets. (i'm assuming at least 2 if not 3) then if they match yellow they might get 1 or 0 and you get 2 or 3, which in turn powers your Sentry, or you can chase blue and then just remove the red, green, blue, that avgs to convert three of each of those colors at level 5. I'm not sayings she's top tier, but I think she hoses much better than you think, however if you are boosting she does nothing.

    I could see lots of Sentry/Hood/Mystique comps in SHIELD, you would never get a skill off wants Mystique gets going.

    I am highly skeptical that purple will steal anymore than 1 AP per color: level 5 is probably gonna be 2 turn stun + increase the colors stolen to include black, purple, blue, which is probably underwhelming. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the ability.
  • It's hard to tell how good she is without seeing the level 5 on purple, but it's hard to see it better than Dormammu's Aid under any realistic situation and since Sentry is almost always with The Hood it still won't be enough. The problem is that Shapeshift might work in a vacuum where Sentry is paired up with 2 other random guys, but that's not how teams are made in this game. I notice they're talking about how with Blade and Mystique the enemy need to watch out for AP steal. It's like huh? Did they not know there's this guy called The Hood?
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2014
    thanks to Solidq's pic I gotta say blue will be her must max ability since since changing 10 random R/G/Y tiles for 9 blue is a powerful denial and will fuel her other powers. it will also be the first power in the game that can create purple tiles.

    edit: just saw rank 2 of masterstroke and says "does not reduce friendly green AP" oh baby. rank 2 of shapeshift adds a stun.
  • simonsez wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    This chick was clearly made to be played with Blade
    I don't see that at all. You want a board full of red for Blade to be effective, and she seems to make sure that isn't going to happen.

    Plus overlapping (good) black powers.
  • Phantron wrote:
    It's hard to tell how good she is without seeing the level 5 on purple, but it's hard to see it better than Dormammu's Aid under any realistic situation and since Sentry is almost always with The Hood it still won't be enough. The problem is that Shapeshift might work in a vacuum where Sentry is paired up with 2 other random guys, but that's not how teams are made in this game. I notice they're talking about how with Blade and Mystique the enemy need to watch out for AP steal. It's like huh? Did they not know there's this guy called The Hood?

    Maybe this is a precursor to hood being nerfed?
  • LoreNYC wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    It's hard to tell how good she is without seeing the level 5 on purple, but it's hard to see it better than Dormammu's Aid under any realistic situation and since Sentry is almost always with The Hood it still won't be enough. The problem is that Shapeshift might work in a vacuum where Sentry is paired up with 2 other random guys, but that's not how teams are made in this game. I notice they're talking about how with Blade and Mystique the enemy need to watch out for AP steal. It's like huh? Did they not know there's this guy called The Hood?

    Maybe this is a precursor to hood being nerfed?

    Although that'd make sense, based on history I'd say it's more likely they forgot there's a guy called The Hood. Or maybe we'll be told The Hood is now going to be under a microscope because clearly showing up in virtually every high PvP team is just some kind of freak accident and has nothing to do with how powerful he is.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I don't think people seem to be grasping how strong her purple is. She steals AP by them matching those colors. So if you can pop off a quick Shapeshift anytime they match red, yellow green you are taking it. So with Sentry full combo you need 7 green, 8 yellow. If Mystique gets a great cascade, and Shapeshifts Sentry and say they have 6 green 5 yellow, depending on how big the drain gets. (i'm assuming at least 2 if not 3) then if they match yellow they might get 1 or 0 and you get 2 or 3, which in turn powers your Sentry, or you can chase blue and then just remove the red, green, blue, that avgs to convert three of each of those colors at level 5. I'm not sayings she's top tier, but I think she hoses much better than you think, however if you are boosting she does nothing.

    I could see lots of Sentry/Hood/Mystique comps in SHIELD, you would never get a skill off wants Mystique gets going.

    I am highly skeptical that purple will steal anymore than 1 AP per color: level 5 is probably gonna be 2 turn stun + increase the colors stolen to include black, purple, blue, which is probably underwhelming. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the ability.

    For the sheer fact that it is conditional is what will make it powerful. Similar to Blade, because there is a CD tile associated with it, it will allow them to justify a higher AP steal because you can just destroy the tile, that's the issue with The Hood, as the only way you can stop his steal is by his death, stun, or massive board maniupulation to keep everything under 11 (impossible). So yes I think it's absolutely possible, probably not 3 since that means the matching player wouldn't get any color. I see lvl 2 stun, lvl 3 steal blue or black, lvl 4 2 turn stun, lvl 5 steal blue or black and 2 ap.

    From general experience I'm thinking she'll be most optimal at 5/5/3. While her black may do massive damage in high levels, black has become a very contested color and there is no reason I would use that over Surgical Strike
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    daibar wrote:
    For 9 AP? You're asking way too much.
    Maybe, but when you consider that for 11 purple, GSBW can lead to way more damage with a similar mechanic, it doesn't really seem like it'd be out of line in that context.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I don't think people seem to be grasping how strong her purple is. She steals AP by them matching those colors. So if you can pop off a quick Shapeshift anytime they match red, yellow green you are taking it. So with Sentry full combo you need 7 green, 8 yellow. If Mystique gets a great cascade, and Shapeshifts Sentry and say they have 6 green 5 yellow, depending on how big the drain gets. (i'm assuming at least 2 if not 3) then if they match yellow they might get 1 or 0 and you get 2 or 3, which in turn powers your Sentry, or you can chase blue and then just remove the red, green, blue, that avgs to convert three of each of those colors at level 5. I'm not sayings she's top tier, but I think she hoses much better than you think, however if you are boosting she does nothing.

    I could see lots of Sentry/Hood/Mystique comps in SHIELD, you would never get a skill off wants Mystique gets going.

    I am highly skeptical that purple will steal anymore than 1 AP per color: level 5 is probably gonna be 2 turn stun + increase the colors stolen to include black, purple, blue, which is probably underwhelming. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the ability.

    For the sheer fact that it is conditional is what will make it powerful. Similar to Blade, because there is a CD tile associated with it, it will allow them to justify a higher AP steal because you can just destroy the tile, that's the issue with The Hood, as the only way you can stop his steal is by his death, stun, or massive board maniupulation to keep everything under 11 (impossible). So yes I think it's absolutely possible, probably not 3 since that means the matching player wouldn't get any color. I see lvl 2 stun, lvl 3 steal blue or black, lvl 4 2 turn stun, lvl 5 steal blue or black and 2 ap.

    From general experience I'm thinking she'll be most optimal at 5/5/3. While her black may do massive damage in high levels, black has become a very contested color and there is no reason I would use that over Surgical Strike

    The Hood's AP steal is too strong even if it's conditional (and it's not) so I doubt this is the standard you're balanced against here. If that is indeed the standard it should at least be steal 3 of R/G/Y on a match of that color. It will trigger less than 50% of the time (3 out of 7 colors), so it averages out to be equivalent of stealing a bit less than 1.5 AP a turn. Dormammu's Aid can easily do better than this and of course it doesn't have a time limit or an AP cost to use. Let's say you only average 2 AP a turn with Dormammu then you'd need to steal 4.66 AP on a match 3 to even balance it. Yes R/G/Y is probably better than random but the lack of any kind of cost or a way to stop Dormammu's Aid would still more than comfortably beat those advantages, so we're talking steal 5 AP on a match 3 to even consider the ability against Dormammu's Aid and I have a very hard time seeing that happening, but if it doesn't do that then you should still stick to Dorammmu's Aid.
  • By the way, infilitration is pretty bad because I assume the change is random on black/purple so you can't predict any cascades in the first place and it's equivalent of just transforming 5 random tiles twice, which isn't anything interesting. What it should do is deplete both team's R/G/Y stock and require that you have a certain amount of R/G/Y before you can use it (so that you can't just always have a unilateral advantage), say 5 AP of one of those color before you can use it.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I don't think people seem to be grasping how strong her purple is. She steals AP by them matching those colors. So if you can pop off a quick Shapeshift anytime they match red, yellow green you are taking it. So with Sentry full combo you need 7 green, 8 yellow. If Mystique gets a great cascade, and Shapeshifts Sentry and say they have 6 green 5 yellow, depending on how big the drain gets. (i'm assuming at least 2 if not 3) then if they match yellow they might get 1 or 0 and you get 2 or 3, which in turn powers your Sentry, or you can chase blue and then just remove the red, green, blue, that avgs to convert three of each of those colors at level 5. I'm not sayings she's top tier, but I think she hoses much better than you think, however if you are boosting she does nothing.

    I could see lots of Sentry/Hood/Mystique comps in SHIELD, you would never get a skill off wants Mystique gets going.

    I am highly skeptical that purple will steal anymore than 1 AP per color: level 5 is probably gonna be 2 turn stun + increase the colors stolen to include black, purple, blue, which is probably underwhelming. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the ability.

    For the sheer fact that it is conditional is what will make it powerful. Similar to Blade, because there is a CD tile associated with it, it will allow them to justify a higher AP steal because you can just destroy the tile, that's the issue with The Hood, as the only way you can stop his steal is by his death, stun, or massive board maniupulation to keep everything under 11 (impossible). So yes I think it's absolutely possible, probably not 3 since that means the matching player wouldn't get any color. I see lvl 2 stun, lvl 3 steal blue or black, lvl 4 2 turn stun, lvl 5 steal blue or black and 2 ap.

    From general experience I'm thinking she'll be most optimal at 5/5/3. While her black may do massive damage in high levels, black has become a very contested color and there is no reason I would use that over Surgical Strike

    The Hood's AP steal is too strong even if it's conditional (and it's not) so I doubt this is the standard you're balanced against here. If that is indeed the standard it should at least be steal 3 of R/G/Y on a match of that color. It will trigger less than 50% of the time (3 out of 7 colors), so it averages out to be equivalent of stealing a bit less than 1.5 AP a turn. Dormammu's Aid can easily do better than this and of course it doesn't have a time limit or an AP cost to use. Let's say you only average 2 AP a turn with Dormammu then you'd need to steal 4.66 AP on a match 3 to even balance it. Yes R/G/Y is probably better than random but the lack of any kind of cost or a way to stop Dormammu's Aid would still more than comfortably beat those advantages, so we're talking steal 5 AP on a match 3 to even consider the ability against Dormammu's Aid and I have a very hard time seeing that happening, but if it doesn't do that then you should still stick to Dorammmu's Aid.

    I think you are misundestanding me. I think Dorammu's is ridicuolous, I was disagreeing with NP that Shapeshifter wouldnt' go higher than 1 AP, I think it will because it's not all that great of a steal since it has a lot of conditions.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    I think you are misundestanding me. I think Dorammu's is ridicuolous, I was disagreeing with NP that Shapeshifter wouldnt' go higher than 1 AP, I think it will because it's not all that great of a steal since it has a lot of conditions.

    I see. Well I can see it go to 3 AP per R/G/Y match easily but I don't think they'd do that because first, it'd appear to be too powerful and second, it's still worse than Dormammu's Aid so why even bother? Unless the plan is to trick people into spending money on Mystique I don't see why they'd make a character who would appear overpowered at 3 AP steal, but is not actually stronger than The Hood. You're just going to get a lot of complaints about how the game's too P2W without even changing the game (because The Hood still reigns supreme).
  • Shapeshift is promised to go into the other 4 colors at higher levels. It may be the first TU steal as well possibly. I could see it stealing 2 per match at 5 covers, but I doubt it, given 4 advancement levels and added stun and colors.

    Masterstroke at level 2 drains less Green, implying that it will drain less of all colors at 5. This is the main canidate for 5 covers I think, as her damage ability and promised 1 shot of 6800 characters if used with Shapeshift. Infiltration and Shapeshift are both kinda meh... I could see 4/4/5 or any combination of X/X/5 being valid build strategy. Really it depends if 5 blue is 100% conversion rate, similar to Dr. Doom or not. 100% conversion of 3 colors would be powerful. Less than 100% conversion, and just adding a tile at 4 or 5 covers would be less powerful.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I find it interesting that her Intimidation blueflag.png is counterproductive with Shapeshifter purpleflag.png in terms of stealing red,yellow, green
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