All Alliances Increasing To 20 Member Slots

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

I keep hoping they will occasionally throw a bone to the casual gamer and people who play in a civilized and relaxed manner can still progress and enjoy the game. The one example of this has been the gauntlet and I am thankful for it.
But right on the heels of the gauntlet return is this, which boils down to some alliances were taking it too easy because they were small. Now there is no excuse everyone can be big and everyone needs to compete for that coveted top 100. Go on, fight among each other more competition, more!

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

ThatOneGuyjp189512

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi,

We understand that players who spent Hero Points to expand their Alliance within the last week may be feeling upset. If you fall into this category, please send Customer Service a ticket and we'll look into Hero Point compensation: https://d3publisherofamerica.zendesk.co ... quests/new

We do feel though, that players who spent Hero Points in the past to expand their Alliances have reaped substantial benefits for doing so (increased Iso, covers, rewards, etc.) that compensate for the Hero Points spent to expand.

Thanks for your understanding as we move forward with the Alliance expansion.

i think HP should be given back to people who made significant investments in their alliances in the past 2 weeks or so, past that i think it's a matter of time enjoyed increased rewards and socialility

Unknown

Honestly, I am not sure a new riot was needed on the forum.

Why can't they avoid that giving out VIRTUAL goods to make people happy ?

They would give 2000 HP to everyone (or more to the ones who bought more slots), which would be invested in the twinkle of an eye, people would be happy and the change would be more than welcome.

Or even an extra cover, like an XForce or even better Lady Thor.

Wow, how can guys in the marketing management never learnt that when you give, you can get twice as more...

I shouldn't be surprised though, but this is me, I am always surprised when people don't use common sense.

I feel sorry for the whole community.

IamTheDanger

If this is not just one of D3s Halloween pranks, (still hoping it is), then I have a much better idea.

It cost what, about 20,000 Hp to build a 20 member alliance? Why not just send everyone 20k Hp?

Another option, if they are going through with this, is to just make the alliance slots cost iso instead of Hp.

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

If this is not just one of D3s Halloween pranks, (still hoping it is), then I have a much better idea.

It cost what, about 20,000 Hp to build a 20 member alliance? Why not just send everyone 20k Hp?

Or just refund alliance purchases?

Unknown

I hear an awful lot of people playing up the victim complex. I'll take an extra large tub of buttered popcorn, thanks. Double the butter/oil stuff, too. It's not often I find entertainment in this sort of mass entitlement victim mentality. Anyone want to share?

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

If this is not just one of D3s Halloween pranks, (still hoping it is), then I have a much better idea.

It cost what, about 20,000 Hp to build a 20 member alliance? Why not just send everyone 20k Hp?

I don't remember exactly but I think it's more than this.

2000 HP for the 20th spot, 1900 for the 19th and so on. But don't know when it starts exactly.

Unknown

Yeah, doesn't seem like this will mean much to people already in the top 100 zone, at least in terms of competition. Those people at the bottom are going to have to wade through a lot more **** to climb their way up to anywhere near the top 100 now though, if there's suddenly 500 new top 500 groups all fumbling around down at the bottom. Not having to pay for the slots is a nice bonus for them, but actually filling all those slots with consistent, competent people is harder than it sounds, and you aren't getting in top 100 without solid people, no matter how many free slots you suddenly have.

Unknown

dearbluey wrote:

I hear an awful lot of people playing up the victim complex. I'll take an extra large tub of buttered popcorn, thanks. Double the butter/oil stuff, too. It's not often I find entertainment in this sort of mass entitlement victim mentality. Anyone want to share?

Because people should be happy to see their investment of time, money, and resources invalidated at the touch of a button? Because issues such as sharding, scaling, and outrageous roster slot costs already punish your customers for spending time and money on your characters, what's one more screw over?

You're right. Why should people feel entitled to things they earned? We should make it easier for those who didn't do the work to reap better rewards.

Oh wait, does this mean that you feel that people who didn't do the work or spend the money are ENTITLED to the same advantages? Interesting.

Unknown

Paintsville wrote:

dearbluey wrote:

I hear an awful lot of people playing up the victim complex. I'll take an extra large tub of buttered popcorn, thanks. Double the butter/oil stuff, too. It's not often I find entertainment in this sort of mass entitlement victim mentality. Anyone want to share?

Because people should be happy to see their investment of time, money, and resources invalidated at the touch of a button? Because issues such as sharding, scaling, and outrageous roster slot costs already punish your customers for spending time and money on your characters, what's one more screw over?

You're right. Why should people feel entitled to things they earned? We should make it easier for those who didn't do the work to reap better rewards.

Oh wait, does this mean that you feel that people who didn't do the work or spend the money are ENTITLED to the same advantages? Interesting.

You're usually more reasonable. I'll engage later, once you're done putting extra words in my mouth.

scottee

Investing and consuming are not the same thing.

Unknown

Wow. This thread is progressing too fast.

While I should be the first together with aktros posting negative comments and rants, I have to say that this change DOES have some logic in it. In terms of community gain, a lot more people gain from it than they lose. Being that the masses are in the alliances that don't score T100, this change will give them a chance to compete.

Other than that, there are significant problems that need to be discussed and addressed before this is implemented:

People have invested HP for 20 slot alliances:
While Hi-Fi said that people that paid for slots in the last week will get refunds, I don't think that this might be enough. Alliances that have less than 20 slots and alliances that have 20 slots but have not managed to hit T100 yet have not at all benefited from this. The best comparison is already given in this thread. It's like maxing a character after grinding hard for the covers and ISO, playing with him for some time and be competitive and rewarded from it and suddenly at some point in the future this particular char is now given maxed for free. Of course you will feel cheated. People invested for the advantage, now it's not there anymore.

How is the competition going to change?
Personally, I don't think that this changes the T100 alliances. I mean the best of the best people are already established in the T100. Maybe the last 25 ranks of that T100 might go up and down, but that is not a big change. What's the difference if 5 people with 1* rosters join with another 15 people with 1* roster? They still can't compete for the top reward. While I agree that there will be a bit more competition, I don't think this will harm anyone too much. I think it benefits the masses (We'll have to see how it will unfold though).

Since competition is going to be higher, is there going to be any change in the rank rewards?
Currently we have a "T100 gets the good stuff, while the rest are left out" system more or less. Competition is going to increase and everyone is going to try to squeeze themselves in the T100. Should something change about the rank rewards or are they fine the way they are? Will alliances be thrown into brackets? You realize now that you will have hundreds or even thousands of alliances competing for the same 100 spots. While before most of them could just not reach them, now nothing stops them from claiming them. Has there been enough thought about how this will impact the whole competing system?

I had an advantage which I paid for. How can I keep it?
Many alliances invested a LOT of HP in order to have a significant advantage at competing for those top rewards. Those people that made that commitment (A full 20 slot alliance is $100 just for info) have been competitive and have enjoyed that advantage for a long time. You can say that they got what they paid for. At the same time there are people that paid nothing and enjoyed the benefits of these alliances for which other people paid for. Now every single person can start his own 20 slot alliance right from scratch. What I'm trying to say is: What differentiates a good alliance from an average or a starting one? Sure you can say the experienced people and the ones that have full covered rosters. However, those people can come and go and while roster slots remained there when you purchased them, people are not guaranteed to be there forever. So having good performers is something relative from player to player. With this change, alliances become flat out equal to each other whether you have created it a year ago or just today. I think this is the first game that I encounter this phenomenon.

Everyone will want their own alliance
Since now anyone can go ahead and start a new alliance in a flash, everyone will want to command his own. So there might be a flood of alliances out there rather than people getting together. As soon as someone becomes strong enough in a T100 alliance, he can go ahead and leave and create his own one just like that. There should be some kind of mechanism that prevents people from creating alliances enjoying their full potential so easily.

Personally, I LOVE this change. I have never paid for a slot so this might be the first time that I'm left out from the screwing. I actually feel good that this change does not finger me in any way. As a matter of fact, as soon as R64 kicks in, I will create my own public alliance and see how it goes just for the fun of it.

It's funny how my critical posts where counter argued so fast to defend D3s developers and the good way they have been steering the ship lately and I see some of those people actually being on my side of the wall now. Let's see how long the topic "Praise D3" will stay on the front page now.

Unknown

Hello, i am all for everyone having 20 spots,i have spent almost 300 usd on this game (about 60 percent) twds guild spots. I have bought spots for two alliances. I would have thought reducing the price to 500hp per spot fair. It was and is an important step for team building. I was going to buy 50usd worth of hp this weekend for the sole purpose of buying couple spots anduying a doc cover. If i get left out in the cold and dont get some hp compensation... i will play the game at a lesser intensity, and never spend another dime. Refund me "atmatechnique" ign some hp not all "some"

ZeiramMR

Two things to consider for the people critical of this change.

1) Way back when alliances were added, Demiurge said they might revisit the pricing scheme later. Now, that's buried in an old thread and it sucks that it is not known to people who are newer to the forums or don't go to the forums at all. But it was addressed.

2) Keep in mind, that Top 250 and Top 500 alliances are getting an influx of Hero Points from the three weekly PVP tournaments that the alliances with lower scores do not receive. (Or at least, they haven't received in the 4 (?) months since the Alliance HP rewards were reduced). Even for a 20-person alliance hitting around #450, that is 1500 HP a week being given across the Alliance members.

Unknown

AN ADDENDUM, i have not had these two alliances an entire two month period. Zero compensation for me would be a big insult

Phillipes

19.500 HP to make alliace from basic 5 to 20 slots. 6th slot cost 600, 7th slot cost 700 an so on.

atomzed

Well that's good news for the community. Over night everyone is getting free slots... for the rest of the mpq life.

And of course, with any change there will be people who are upset. I am just surprised about the level of vitriol for a change that essentially giving everyone things.

Car company: "Hi guys, we are upgrading all our cars to premium leather seats for the cars that we are selling from Dec 2014 onwards".

Disgruntled customer: "what?!?! How dare you give out free premium leather seats to everyone else including me!I paid for it since1973! You are devaluing my purchases.... I expect a full refund for my purchases in 1973, 1978, 1983, 19xx......."

Phillipes

You may be right, but look is this way: Imagine you bought slots from 6 to 20, for almost 100 bucks, as Okin wrote above. Why would you do that? To have ADVANTAGE! Now it is gone.
Or - you have developed faster engine for your racing team, your team paid you that they have better chance of winning. And after your hard work, rules of competition will change and
now everyone will have your engine for free! You will be pissed, your opponents will be happy.
I also think that everyone who bought alliance slot through the WHOLE COURSE of the game should get his HP back.

yogi_

This thread kinda gives me a True Healing vibe.

This is a tough call to comment on, so I am not really going too.

I see it from both perspectives. Beneficial for newer players and anywhere from a bit less to far far less for established players - it will vary widely, hence the mixed reactions.

[Personal experience - I am in an alliance of 1 member (me) but in reality this benefit is close to nil. I play quite a lot and have never had a decent alliance reward. I would like to see alliance score handicaping as for a solo person, I usually do ok for what it is, though clearly this move to encourage 20 player teams, (and therefore things are going to get crazier) lessens this non-existent outcome even more.]

atomzed

Phillipes wrote:

You may be right, but look is this way: Imagine you bought slots from 6 to 20, for almost 100 bucks, as Okin wrote above. Why would you do that? To have ADVANTAGE! No it is gone.

Look, I am not berating you guys who purchased the slots for being upset. You guys can feel upset and want some compensation. But there should be a cut off to the compensation.... You can't just retrospectively ask for compensation going infinitely back into the past....

Or - you have developed faster engine in you racing team, your team paid you that they have better chance of winning. And after your hard work, rules of competition will change and
now everyone will have your engine for free! You will be pissed, your opponents will be happy.
.

Your analogy is off. The right analogy, which has happened many times in F1, is the change of rules.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_regulations

It has happened many times. For example, in 2014, they increased the restriction of the engine. In 2013 the restriction is a 2.4 engine. In 2014, the restriction is a 1.6 engine. Which means that all the tech investment the big companies pump into engine development has changed.

Do we see the F1 teams complaining about this and demanding retrospective compensation?