DISCUSSION - New Characters in Comic Packs

Unknown

I don't think this is the best solution to chars not being added to tokens since one of my most covered 3* chars is Punisher who is incomplete.

I wonder though. You said comic packs. What does it encompass? All kinds of tokens? As in event, heroic and standard, singles, 10-packs, 42-packs?

yogi_ wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

ElectroBlast wrote:

See original post here: http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17494


Great news - we're finally going to add the new characters to the comic packs.

This will put the latest characters into the packs sooner and allow us to work on characters out of the spotlight

Is this your way of saying that Patch and Punisher will get nerfed while 3 characters with 2 powers will be getting a 3rd ability?

It's what drew my attention as well. They obviously have outlines for what they want to do. There are multiple threads of people who know this stuff better than I, but thinking broadly:

Doctor Doom, Loki, Ragnarok - 3rd powers and modest reworks for overall modest buffs.

Daredevil, Human Torch (Classic), Wolverine (Patch), Punisher - Largely a refresh or clean out rather than a complete overhaul.

I don't think working on chars out of the spotlight means nerfing the good ones. Even if they were going to do nerfs, PunPun is not the guy that should be at the top of nerf list. Just saying. There are more powerful chars that are abused and overused than him.

Wolarsen

I see this as an improvement: we will have more control on chances to draw a specific character, and will greatly help new/mid players. Please be sure to place flashy information about rotation in redeem page so non-forumites have full information. Probably there are better solutions out there (maybe introducing tiered tokens), but better this than nothing.

by KevinMark » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:30 am
I wonder though. You said comic packs. What does it encompass? All kinds of tokens? As in event, heroic and standard, singles, 10-packs, 42-packs?

Yes, please clarify this.

GothicKratos

Can we get a definition of "Comic Pack" HiFi? Has the language just changed because of the MtG-style drafting or should we expect a larger change in the way we attain characters/covers? (I'm not trying to be a tinfoilist, I'm just curious.)

yogi_

This is excellent news for long time, top tier players who have everyone being shoved out already and who will now be able to open all their tokens.

This neutral to slightly frustrating news for the transitioning to 3* player. On average, you are likely to already have more Daredevil, Doctor Doom, Human Torch (Classic), Loki, Ragnarok, Wolverine (Patch) and Punisher covers, simply because they've been around for a while and you are really trying to build some of them. You'll have some of newer characters covers but even with a couple more of each, it's not going to make that much difference. Just wait till seasons 8 and 9 when the REALLY commonly used characters whose names appeared nowhere in either list now, are going to have to theoretically be rotated out.

This is neither here nor there for new players, as they will only have a modest number of covers for any character, so whoever they get, in theory, isn't going to matter so much.

Overall though, this is a stop gap measure at best and will likely last a number of seasons and depending on how many seasons, you'll start seeing complaints at a future date saying "I need character X, why isn't he in the tokens, this is so stupid" and as you move from one season to the next, it's going to become more theoretically and practically absurd - "Oh, we have to rotate characters in and out because the way we've set it up can't handle them all, so we have to continue this rationing system for the time being".

Eventually, there will come a time, when a complete overhaul of the cover giving out model will have to happen.

IamTheDanger

KevinMark wrote:

I don't think this is the best solution to chars not being added to tokens since one of my most covered 3* chars is Punisher who is incomplete.

I wonder though. You said comic packs. What does it encompass? All kinds of tokens? As in event, heroic and standard, singles, 10-packs, 42-packs?

yogi_ wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

ElectroBlast wrote:

See original post here: http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17494


Great news - we're finally going to add the new characters to the comic packs.

This will put the latest characters into the packs sooner and allow us to work on characters out of the spotlight

Is this your way of saying that Patch and Punisher will get nerfed while 3 characters with 2 powers will be getting a 3rd ability?

It's what drew my attention as well. They obviously have outlines for what they want to do. There are multiple threads of people who know this stuff better than I, but thinking broadly:

Doctor Doom, Loki, Ragnarok - 3rd powers and modest reworks for overall modest buffs.

Daredevil, Human Torch (Classic), Wolverine (Patch), Punisher - Largely a refresh or clean out rather than a complete overhaul.

I don't think working on chars out of the spotlight means nerfing the good ones. Even if they were going to do nerfs, PunPun is not the guy that should be at the top of nerf list. Just saying. There are more powerful chars that are abused and overused than him.

Exactly why I was asking. I can understand the 3 characters with 2 abilities getting a 3rd. But if taking them out of packs to "work on" them means nerf or buffing them, then it's exactly as you said. There are a few characters that need changed around way more than any of the ones on the list to be removed. Thats why I was asking them to clarify a little. It just didn't make sense to put Patch and Punisher at the top of the list. The way it's worded though could mean several things.

Thor82

I opened my Heroic 10 pack and I got a total ZERO 3*** characters. I repeat ZERO 3*** Characters. All 2** characters. Thanks guys

Wolarsen

by Thor82 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:23 pm
I opened my Heroic 10 pack and I got a total ZERO 3*** characters. I repeat ZERO 3*** Characters. All 2** characters. Thanks guys

May sound offtopic, but then you cannot draw rotated heroes if you dont get golds!
Thor, token chances for a gold are really bad; in fact, you have a 8% chance to not draw a gold token at all in a 10 pack.
My season 10 pack score is 0-0-2-1-2 (including TWO Daredevils!), in case it makes you feel better!

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

Exactly why I was asking. I can understand the 3 characters with 2 abilities getting a 3rd. But if taking them out of packs to "work on" them means nerf or buffing them, then it's exactly as you said. There are a few characters that need changed around way more than any of the ones on the list to be removed. Thats why I was asking them to clarify a little. It just didn't make sense to put Patch and Punisher at the top of the list. The way it's worded though could mean several things.

I don't think they will be working on every single one that is moved out of rotation. I take "the ones out of the spotlight" as weak heroes.

Unknown

So what is the reasoning against simply breaking up the packs in a simple manner like this:

1-Pack:
80% Chance to pull a 2*.
17.5% Chance to pull a 3*.
2.5% Chance to pull a 4*.

and just including every character at that level. Sure, when a new 3* is released, that lowers the chance of getting each 3* but you still have the same overall percent chance to pull a 3* and then you don't have to worry about people complaining that, in a certain pack, they can't get any specific character. Simply maintain the overall percentage and there really is no real drawbacks. You still have PVE/PVP featured events where that particular character has a boosted chance to drop.

Unknown

Wolarsen wrote:

by Thor82 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:23 pm
I opened my Heroic 10 pack and I got a total ZERO 3*** characters. I repeat ZERO 3*** Characters. All 2** characters. Thanks guys

May sound offtopic, but then you cannot draw rotated heroes if you dont get golds!
Thor, token chances for a gold are really bad; in fact, you have a 8% chance to not draw a gold token at all in a 10 pack.
My season 10 pack score is 0-0-2-1-2 (including TWO Daredevils!), in case it makes you feel better!

i have pulled a grand total of 4 (10x packs) since playing

there was 1 pack where I also got Zero pull. But it follow by the next season's 10 pack with a strong showing 5-6 if I remember correctly.

on average I was drawing 2.75 per pack a total of 11 covers from (4) 10 packs.

I also purchased 42x twice and got a total of 20 covers. So its pretty consistent if you spread it out, but based on 1 pack. Yes you can get zero or seven, quite dramatic

Unknown

Grizzlegom wrote:

So what is the reasoning against simply breaking up the packs in a simple manner like this:

1-Pack:
80% Chance to pull a 2*.
17.5% Chance to pull a 3*.
2.5% Chance to pull a 4*.

and just including every character at that level. Sure, when a new 3* is released, that lowers the chance of getting each 3* but you still have the same overall percent chance to pull a 3* and then you don't have to worry about people complaining that, in a certain pack, they can't get any specific character. Simply maintain the overall percentage and there really is no real drawbacks. You still have PVE/PVP featured events where that particular character has a boosted chance to drop.

I believe that is already how it is done, except I'm not sure of the percentages.

Demiurge_Will

xKOBALTx wrote:

So how will old Event tokens work going forward? The way I understand it now is that the odds/characters inside an Event token stay the same until the event is run again. If that is true will it be the same going forward? Would I want to wait to open a Season VI Starfall token, for example, until that event re-runs or will just opening during Season VII be enough to nab newer characters?

It depends. Most events (like Starfall and other single-character PvP events, and most story events) share the same basic structure and draw on a common set of odds. Tokens for these will include the newer characters (and stop including the old ones) when the rotation happens.

A couple events with quirkier packs, like the Avengers and X-Men Versus events, don't inherit those same base odds and won't change their odds until/unless they are re-run.

You'll always be able to check the odds button and see what might come out of a token.

Demiurge_Will

bonebreak wrote:

finally good news. Does this include standard tokens as well?

Yep!

Demiurge_Will

KevinMark wrote:

I wonder though. You said comic packs. What does it encompass? All kinds of tokens? As in event, heroic and standard, singles, 10-packs, 42-packs?

All of these, yes.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Will ... could you take a look at the Comic Con announcements? And maybe say something there. Vicious denials, if necessary/

Unknown

great if the releasing of 3rd abilities for all 3* characters are real, then removing Loki, doom, Rag would be a bad move of they time it wrong...

Demiurge_Will

KevinMark wrote:

I don't think they will be working on every single one that is moved out of rotation.

That's right - it gives us a good opportunity to make changes, but a character won't necessarily be changed just because they leave the packs or return to them.

Demiurge_Will

Grizzlegom wrote:

So what is the reasoning against simply breaking up the packs in a simple manner like this:

1-Pack:
80% Chance to pull a 2*.
17.5% Chance to pull a 3*.
2.5% Chance to pull a 4*.

and just including every character at that level. Sure, when a new 3* is released, that lowers the chance of getting each 3* but you still have the same overall percent chance to pull a 3* and then you don't have to worry about people complaining that, in a certain pack, they can't get any specific character. Simply maintain the overall percentage and there really is no real drawbacks. You still have PVE/PVP featured events where that particular character has a boosted chance to drop.

As the rate at which you get any one particular 3* gets lower and lower, it takes longer and longer to collect all three of their abilities, or to get enough covers that they can outperform your 2*s. If all of the new 3* characters and all of the old ones were readily available, without other changes, the duration of the 2*-3* transition would increase by a couple months for a typical player, and that would continue to grow as more characters get added.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Grizzlegom wrote:

So what is the reasoning against simply breaking up the packs in a simple manner like this:

1-Pack:
80% Chance to pull a 2*.
17.5% Chance to pull a 3*.
2.5% Chance to pull a 4*.

and just including every character at that level. Sure, when a new 3* is released, that lowers the chance of getting each 3* but you still have the same overall percent chance to pull a 3* and then you don't have to worry about people complaining that, in a certain pack, they can't get any specific character. Simply maintain the overall percentage and there really is no real drawbacks. You still have PVE/PVP featured events where that particular character has a boosted chance to drop.

As the rate at which you get any one particular 3* gets lower and lower, it takes longer and longer to collect all three of their abilities, or to get enough covers that they can outperform your 2*s. If all of the new 3* characters and all of the old ones were readily available, without other changes, the duration of the 2*-3* transition would increase by a couple months for a typical player, and that would continue to grow as more characters get added.

Great point! So any chance ou ycould significantly increase chance of pulling 3*'s over 2*'s than currently exist in pack odds?

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Grizzlegom wrote:

So what is the reasoning against simply breaking up the packs in a simple manner like this:

1-Pack:
80% Chance to pull a 2*.
17.5% Chance to pull a 3*.
2.5% Chance to pull a 4*.

and just including every character at that level. Sure, when a new 3* is released, that lowers the chance of getting each 3* but you still have the same overall percent chance to pull a 3* and then you don't have to worry about people complaining that, in a certain pack, they can't get any specific character. Simply maintain the overall percentage and there really is no real drawbacks. You still have PVE/PVP featured events where that particular character has a boosted chance to drop.

As the rate at which you get any one particular 3* gets lower and lower, it takes longer and longer to collect all three of their abilities, or to get enough covers that they can outperform your 2*s. If all of the new 3* characters and all of the old ones were readily available, without other changes, the duration of the 2*-3* transition would increase by a couple months for a typical player, and that would continue to grow as more characters get added.

Great point! So any chance ou ycould significantly increase chance of pulling 3*'s over 2*'s than currently exist in pack odds?

I'd say there's almost no chance of seeing the chance of getting a 3* at all increased significantly because that's roughly the same as asking for more free stuff, and while everyone loves free stuff, D3 probably isn't in a habit of giving free stuff away.