*** Colossus (Classic) ***

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

jozier wrote:

A tank character sounds absolutely idiotic in the meta of MPQ. The devs clearly don't even play their own game.

He looks great to me. His yellow is a damage reduction ability, which means that it is currently THE only damage resistance ability; totally different from Deadpool. If Deadpool takes a blue fury trap, he takes 10k dmg and dies. If Colossus takes the blue fury trap, the damage is reduced by half to 5k and he survives.

Magneto, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Bullseye and Falcon all have better damage reduction abilities than Colossus so I don't know where you're getting this idea.

And because he's a tank, each health pack actually gives more value, because it heals 10k health. It goes a long way in extending play.

It doesn't go any way into extending play because he's not actually a tank. He'll pop up front for a maximum of 5 turns for 9 yellow AP. You're going to be taking lots of damage if he works. That's not conducive to climbing a PVP ladder.

Finally, he has a AOE, which means that he is better offensively than hulk and CM.

He has AOE in limited circumstances. It's not overly hard to avoid them on defense. And you can bootstrap an AOE ability for Hulk with Patch if you want. Also CM has a far more useful tank ability than he does.

jozier wrote:

I guess they really do. Force everybody to waste $$$ on shields every few hours, and then on health packs.

I don't know how the rant about taking damage leads to shields expenditure. If you are not shield hopping, you can always plan your push such that you use only 1 shield for a full pvp.

/quote]

If you are not shield hopping, good luck climbing. The only character that is conducive to climbing without expending massive amounts of health is Daken and he's weak as a kitten now.

IceIX

Moral wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Enoc99 wrote:

Gowaderacer wrote:

So how does Intimidation and Anti-Grav device work with Immovable Object since it is a countdown tile we want to stay on the board?

I would assume the same way it does with Falcon's countdown tile.

Yep, just something you have to take into account with those abilities.

Will Colossus still jump to the front while the Redwing tile exists, like the XForce yellow countdown still works after being hit by Redwing?

In case you missed it, Redwing taking the XForce healing tile doesn't trigger damage. Matching that same Redwing tile during its countdown does trigger XForce's damage and tile destruction.

At current, yes. Redwing works by making the Countdown tile not exist anymore, it doesn't really destroy it. Hence why removing the X-Force Wolverine's tile doesn't cause the damage blast. That's purposeful so as not to have a Passive that actively harms the player when going up against someone that baits you into destroying tiles.

Phaserhawk

IceIX wrote:

Will Colossus still jump to the front while the Redwing tile exists, like the XForce yellow countdown still works after being hit by Redwing?

In case you missed it, Redwing taking the XForce healing tile doesn't trigger damage. Matching that same Redwing tile during its countdown does trigger XForce's damage and tile destruction.

At current, yes. Redwing works by making the Countdown tile not exist anymore, it doesn't really destroy it. Hence why removing the X-Force Wolverine's tile doesn't cause the damage blast. That's purposeful so as not to have a Passive that actively harms the player when going up against someone that baits you into destroying tiles.[/quote]

Except rumor has it, if the enemy team blows up the X-Force tile they get the AP off the ensuing cascade, that kinda sucks. Lol, I love how we are talking about X-Force in Colossus' post

mags1587

IceIX wrote:

Moral wrote:

Will Colossus still jump to the front while the Redwing tile exists, like the XForce yellow countdown still works after being hit by Redwing?

In case you missed it, Redwing taking the XForce healing tile doesn't trigger damage. Matching that same Redwing tile during its countdown does trigger XForce's damage and tile destruction.

At current, yes. Redwing works by making the Countdown tile not exist anymore, it doesn't really destroy it. Hence why removing the X-Force Wolverine's tile doesn't cause the damage blast. That's purposeful so as not to have a Passive that actively harms the player when going up against someone that baits you into destroying tiles.

I'm confused by this reasoning. It seems counter to what I thought Redwing's countdown tile did. I always thought that Redwing removed the enemy's tile (strike, protect, countdown) and then the Redwing countdown was just a cool-down period while you waited Redwing to come back / the passive to activate again. What you seem to be saying (that it's correct that matching the Redwing tile still triggers X-Force's damage) would only seem to make sense if the enemy tile and its affects were only removed when the Redwing countdown went to 0. Or am I missing something?

IceIX

mags1587 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Moral wrote:

Will Colossus still jump to the front while the Redwing tile exists, like the XForce yellow countdown still works after being hit by Redwing?

In case you missed it, Redwing taking the XForce healing tile doesn't trigger damage. Matching that same Redwing tile during its countdown does trigger XForce's damage and tile destruction.

At current, yes. Redwing works by making the Countdown tile not exist anymore, it doesn't really destroy it. Hence why removing the X-Force Wolverine's tile doesn't cause the damage blast. That's purposeful so as not to have a Passive that actively harms the player when going up against someone that baits you into destroying tiles.

I'm confused by this reasoning. It seems counter to what I thought Redwing's countdown tile did. I always thought that Redwing removed the enemy's tile (strike, protect, countdown) and then the Redwing countdown was just a cool-down period while you waited Redwing to come back / the passive to activate again. What you seem to be saying (that it's correct that matching the Redwing tile still triggers X-Force's damage) would only seem to make sense if the enemy tile and its affects were only removed when the Redwing countdown went to 0. Or am I missing something?

Not sure what you're getting at here. The Redwing tile acts as a sort of board based cooldown. It has no other effect on tiles, enemy or otherwise. The effect that I'm talking about is when Redwing's tile comes on the board and replaces an enemy Countdown tile. In that case, the tile technically never blew up, it just changed forms.

HailMary

mags1587 wrote:

I'm confused by this reasoning. It seems counter to what I thought Redwing's countdown tile did. I always thought that Redwing removed the enemy's tile (strike, protect, countdown) and then the Redwing countdown was just a cool-down period while you waited Redwing to come back / the passive to activate again. What you seem to be saying (that it's correct that matching the Redwing tile still triggers X-Force's damage) would only seem to make sense if the enemy tile and its affects were only removed when the Redwing countdown went to 0. Or am I missing something?

I agree with your interpretation of Redwing's effect. However, I'll note that Ice was only explicitly addressing why damage-upon-destruction doesn't proc when Redwing replaces XF Y. He didn't explicitly address why the damage-upon-destruction does proc upon destroying that Redwing tile.

I'm guessing that the latter is a bug, because I can't think of an explanation that makes sense.

Phaserhawk

With these low level X-Forces I"m purposely taking the damage since it's not much, and I get all the AP from the ensuing cascades. I took like 500 damage on a low level xforce and the 6 tile explosions gave me quite a bit of AP, It was like the old Forests, damage for AP

mags1587

HailMary wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

I'm confused by this reasoning. It seems counter to what I thought Redwing's countdown tile did. I always thought that Redwing removed the enemy's tile (strike, protect, countdown) and then the Redwing countdown was just a cool-down period while you waited Redwing to come back / the passive to activate again. What you seem to be saying (that it's correct that matching the Redwing tile still triggers X-Force's damage) would only seem to make sense if the enemy tile and its affects were only removed when the Redwing countdown went to 0. Or am I missing something?

I agree with your interpretation of Redwing's effect. However, I'll note that Ice was only explicitly addressing why damage-upon-destruction doesn't proc when Redwing replaces XF Y. He didn't explicitly address why the damage-upon-destruction does proc upon destroying that Redwing tile.

I'm guessing that the latter is a bug, because I can't think of an explanation that makes sense.

Okay, yeah, I think I might have misread IceIX's post, then. I thought he was saying that the damage dealt in the latter scenario (where Redwing took X-Force's countdown tile, the Redwing tile was matched away, and then damage is dealt) was working as intended.

ETA: To clarify a little more, this is what I assume is happening now in-game with Redwing and X-Force. (Haven't ran into it myself so apologies if I get it wrong.)

1) Redwing takes X-Force's countdown tile. Redwing tile counts down and disappears. No damage dealt, no healing.

2) Redwing takes X-Force's countdown tile. Redwing tile is matched away. Damage is dealt.

If that's accurate and #2 is working as intended, my confusion is why matching the Redwing tile would cause damage when the Redwing tile disappearing doesn't.

IceIX

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I guess the only thing I want to know now is if Immovable Object reduces damage before or after defense/strike tiles.

It reduces base damage. So 100 damage with 25 points of Strike tile increase would hit for 100*.5+25 damage, or 75. A 100 point hit with a 25 point Protect tile would hit for 100*.5-25, or 25.

Nonce Equitaur 2

IceIX wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I guess the only thing I want to know now is if Immovable Object reduces damage before or after defense/strike tiles.

It reduces base damage. So 100 damage with 25 points of Strike tile increase would hit for 100*.5+25 damage, or 75. A 100 point hit with a 25 point Protect tile would hit for 100*.5-25, or 25.

Useless against Sentry, then. Up to 10784 damage just from Sentry's Strike tile with a 16 multiplier. More than Colossus' health of 10200, but some counters might be gone. And then damage reduction on the up to 2368 damage.

NorthernPolarity

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I guess the only thing I want to know now is if Immovable Object reduces damage before or after defense/strike tiles.

It reduces base damage. So 100 damage with 25 points of Strike tile increase would hit for 100*.5+25 damage, or 75. A 100 point hit with a 25 point Protect tile would hit for 100*.5-25, or 25.

Useless against Sentry, then. Up to 10784 damage just from Sentry's Strike tile with a 16 multiplier. More than Colossus' health of 10200, but some counters might be gone. And then damage reduction on the up to 2368 damage.

Ouch, the hits against Colossus grow and grow. I thought he could be used at least as protecting the team from Sentry on offense, but I guess his slide down mid-tier continues instead...

Nonce Equitaur 2

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Ouch, the hits against Colossus grow and grow. I thought he could be used at least as protecting the team from Sentry on offense, but I guess his slide down mid-tier continues instead...

That's it. As soon as I finish obtaining him and leveling him up, I'm selling him.

theshadeofopal

Thats a big enough caveat that it really belongs in the skill description. Just, "resists X % of the damage dealt to him before strike tiles". Does that apply to any skills that have base plus circumstantial damage like photon blast?

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I guess the only thing I want to know now is if Immovable Object reduces damage before or after defense/strike tiles.

It reduces base damage. So 100 damage with 25 points of Strike tile increase would hit for 100*.5+25 damage, or 75. A 100 point hit with a 25 point Protect tile would hit for 100*.5-25, or 25.

Useless against Sentry, then. Up to 10784 damage just from Sentry's Strike tile with a 16 multiplier. More than Colossus' health of 10200, but some counters might be gone. And then damage reduction on the up to 2368 damage.

Ouch, the hits against Colossus grow and grow. I thought he could be used at least as protecting the team from Sentry on offense, but I guess his slide down mid-tier continues instead...

He's still busted in PvE. Maybe more than birdie.

NorthernPolarity

ark123 wrote:

He's still busted in PvE. Maybe more than birdie.

How so?

OnesOwnGrief

Oh my god. Guys, I am so sorry for asking that question. Please forgive me.

theshadeofopal

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Oh my god. Guys, I am so sorry for asking that question. Please forgive me.

Considering how much this hobbles him against about half the top 10 characters, better to know it before he's usable.

Moral

IceIX wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Moral wrote:

Will Colossus still jump to the front while the Redwing tile exists, like the XForce yellow countdown still works after being hit by Redwing?

In case you missed it, Redwing taking the XForce healing tile doesn't trigger damage. Matching that same Redwing tile during its countdown does trigger XForce's damage and tile destruction.

At current, yes. Redwing works by making the Countdown tile not exist anymore, it doesn't really destroy it. Hence why removing the X-Force Wolverine's tile doesn't cause the damage blast. That's purposeful so as not to have a Passive that actively harms the player when going up against someone that baits you into destroying tiles.

I'm confused by this reasoning. It seems counter to what I thought Redwing's countdown tile did. I always thought that Redwing removed the enemy's tile (strike, protect, countdown) and then the Redwing countdown was just a cool-down period while you waited Redwing to come back / the passive to activate again. What you seem to be saying (that it's correct that matching the Redwing tile still triggers X-Force's damage) would only seem to make sense if the enemy tile and its affects were only removed when the Redwing countdown went to 0. Or am I missing something?

Not sure what you're getting at here. The Redwing tile acts as a sort of board based cooldown. It has no other effect on tiles, enemy or otherwise. The effect that I'm talking about is when Redwing's tile comes on the board and replaces an enemy Countdown tile. In that case, the tile technically never blew up, it just changed forms.

My in game experience was the Redwing tile retained the XForce property and dealt damage and tile destruction when matched.

Since Falcon is the current PvP you will get a wide test shortly much like the dreaded sunder bug.

Nonce Equitaur 2

theshadeofopal wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Oh my god. Guys, I am so sorry for asking that question. Please forgive me.

Considering how much this hobbles him against about half the top 10 characters, better to know it before he's usable.

The goggles do nothing.

Phaserhawk

Well it's good to know that they have no plans of nerve from Sentry anytime soon or creating a counter. This guy could have been a legitimate answer to that problem. He will be amazing in PVE but nothing more than that