*** Colossus (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • If that's really how he is implemented he is completely useless on defense. His offense is nothing spectacular so you can whack away at the other guys and save Colossus for last. Plus when he is the last one standing his black would be useless so all he can do is his red. Maybe the design made sense when you are playing with him but not when he is on defense. Or maybe I am just missing something.
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,370 Site Admin
    PPPlaya wrote:
    If that's really how he is implemented he is completely useless on defense. His offense is nothing spectacular so you can whack away at the other guys and save Colossus for last. Plus when he is the last one standing his black would be useless so all he can do is his red. Maybe the design made sense when you are playing with him but not when he is on defense. Or maybe I am just missing something.
    Currently the way it works is that his Yellow will force him to the front when you attack while the Cooldown tile is out, similar to how Deadpool just decides that he wants to take the damage himself. We don't have it in the description for the defense because A) It would put the text outside text boundaries, and B) Most players only really consider the offensive options.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX wrote:
    When I'm fighting Colossus, should I always make sure to rotate him to the back before ending my turn, so that he doesn't get his bonus for being in front?
    If you're worried about him whacking you with a Punch, yes. Of course, he could always do the same as I said above: Use a different ability to push himself forward *then* Punch.

    Okay, that's something I don't like.

    It reminds me of the early Classic Storm. If she *wasn't* in front, and you made so much as a tile match, her retaliation would wipe out half your team's health and set up Ragnarok. Every single turn, it was vital to rotate Storm in front or die. It was a bad mechanic.

    Here, the mechanic is to always rotate Colossus away. That's a bit broken. Here's a fix:
      Colossal Punch - Red 11 AP
      Using the incredible power of his organic steel fists, Colossus pummels the enemy. Deals 493 damage. If Colossus is Immovable, he deals an extra 164 damage.
      Level Upgrades
        Level 2: Extra 492 damage if Colossus is Immovable. (As originally written level 2 makes no sense) Level 3: Extra 820 damage if Colossus is Immovable. Level 4: Extra 137 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable. Level 5: Extra 329 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable.
      Max Level: 1565 damage, additional 2610 to target and 1044 to other enemies if Immovable.
    • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,370 Site Admin
      Okay, that's something I don't like.

      It reminds me of the early Classic Storm. If she *wasn't* in front, and you made so much as a tile match, her retaliation would wipe out half your team's health and set up Ragnarok. Every single turn, it was vital to rotate Storm in front or die. It was a bad mechanic.

      Here, the mechanic is to always rotate Colossus away. That's a bit broken. Here's a fix:
        Colossal Punch - Red 11 AP
        Using the incredible power of his organic steel fists, Colossus pummels the enemy. Deals 493 damage. If Colossus is Immovable, he deals an extra 164 damage.
        Level Upgrades
          Level 2: Extra 492 damage if Colossus is Immovable. (As originally written level 2 makes no sense) Level 3: Extra 820 damage if Colossus is Immovable. Level 4: Extra 137 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable. Level 5: Extra 329 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable.
        Max Level: 1565 damage, additional 2610 to target and 1044 to other enemies if Immovable.
        I get what you're saying, but we don't necessarily want it tied to Immovable Object. We want him to be powerful when at the vanguard, which is why it's tied directly to him being in the front instead. If it were tied to Immovable Object, that places the AP cost of a Colossal Punch at 8 Yellow, 11 Red to get the stronger usage out of it. That's a bit much to ask for most use case scenarios, especially for the AI.
      • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
        IceIX wrote:
        I get what you're saying, but we don't necessarily want it tied to Immovable Object. We want him to be powerful when at the vanguard, which is why it's tied directly to him being in the front instead. If it were tied to Immovable Object, that places the AP cost of a Colossal Punch at 8 Yellow, 11 Red to get the stronger usage out of it. That's a bit much to ask for most use case scenarios, especially for the AI.

        In that case, Red should be his strongest Power / Tile Match. Currently when on Offense, he can't be paired well with Captain Marvel, Human Torch, Iron Man, Psylocke, Sentry, or Thor -- because they'd get in front on a Red match. For getting in front, His only truly good partner is BWGS. As is stands currently, he needs to collect 11 Red, then needs to make a Yellow match so he can be in front on the next turn.
      • Nonce,

        I think IceIX is saying that even if he pairs with guys who are stronger on Red, you could still use his Yellow Ability or Black Ability to move him to the front before firing your Red ability. So yes, you can match Yellow the previous turn, or you can fire off another ability before using Red. Or you could just use Red without the bonus.

        I don't think it's bad for his primary to be Yellow. Personally, I would think you would probably want him to block for The Hood or Falcon anyway.

        Just my two cents. icon_e_wink.gif
      • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
        Mawtful wrote:
        I love that in every single one of these interviews, the demiurge guys never know the colours of existing characters. Last time XForce was announced as being the only Green/Black/Yellow (despite 2 version of Storm with those colours) and this time XForce apparently has Red/Black/Yellow.

        He did mention X-Force, but completely forgot about Cap Marvel. Anyway, I see a lot of bellyaching, but he seems quite good to me. Sure, it's not a shield-hopping forerunner, but for all other of us that are content with a top 25 position and don't want to expend thousands in shields, he's a great player . I think 5/4/4 would be the best approach as you can use the Fastball strategically to protect characters, so you don't want them gone too long but not too short either. 2 turns seems perfect to plan ahead predicting what the opponent will do with its AP in the coming turns.
      • JathroJathro Posts: 323 Mover and Shaker
        So with Fastball Special, and abilities with drawbacks (I'm looking at you Supernova), will the team still take damage as usual when Supernova is selected? Or Hulk's Smash if the criteria is met?

        I'm assuming yes, but just to be sure...
      • IceIX, how does his yellow work with Deadpool's black? I mean if Colossus is front does DP jump in front trigger his black, but not take damage because it would then trigger Colossus' yellow? I noticed something similar in the triple DP node in the last PvE. Because so far I see 3/5/5 Colossus, a 4/5/4 Deadpool, and a 5/5/3 Hood just be devastating. You just don't worry about matching blue (so Hood isn't in front), or green (because you don't use it) and always throw Hood for either Black AoE or Twin Pistols, use DP's red to cut down high HP enemies for AoE kills, or Purple for just death. And clean up with Colossus.

        And on defense you can't target Hood because of DP or eventual Colossus yellow.

        -Da Chibi of Total Carnage
        "...sigfile?"
      • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
        AznLyte wrote:
        Nonce,

        I think IceIX is saying that even if he pairs with guys who are stronger on Red, you could still use his Yellow Ability or Black Ability to move him to the front before firing your Red ability. So yes, you can match Yellow the previous turn, or you can fire off another ability before using Red. Or you could just use Red without the bonus.

        I don't think it's bad for his primary to be Yellow. Personally, I would think you would probably want him to block for The Hood or Falcon anyway.

        Just my two cents. icon_e_wink.gif

        Sure, that looks good on paper. I understand it. But it's 3 turns to get the Yellow, 4 turns to get the Red, 5 turns to get the Black. In order for him to use a power to set up his red, that's 7 turns into the game on a cooperative board.

        Currently, his Red can be used to good effect on turn 6 with a very cooperative board, 5 turns if his team is chosen very carefully.

        Making Red his strongest power would make him one turn faster for using it effectively.
      • IceIX wrote:
        PPPlaya wrote:
        If that's really how he is implemented he is completely useless on defense. His offense is nothing spectacular so you can whack away at the other guys and save Colossus for last. Plus when he is the last one standing his black would be useless so all he can do is his red. Maybe the design made sense when you are playing with him but not when he is on defense. Or maybe I am just missing something.
        Currently the way it works is that his Yellow will force him to the front when you attack while the Cooldown tile is out, similar to how Deadpool just decides that he wants to take the damage himself. We don't have it in the description for the defense because A) It would put the text outside text boundaries, and B) Most players only really consider the offensive options.

        Now that's something I absolutely don't understand. I'd like to hijack this and talk about the Descriptions in general. They are ATROCIOUS. And that's being generous. Why even have them at that point if they aren't telling you anything.

        I have a localized(german) version and here are some things I can tell you.

        Patch "the best" translates to : "Deals 113 Damage !TO! each tile that has his symbol and blahblah..." (At first I couldn't even figure out what that does)
        Modern Hawkeye's Avoid used to say "if there are LESS than X tiles on the board" (I ran into that with a nuke more than once)
        Deadpool red isn't translated. Both his purple and black however are.
        Beast green isn't translated. Both his blue and yellow however are.

        New Magneto isn't translated at all. Even the ability names are in english.
        New Xforce descriptions aren't translated. The new name of the black ability however is translated. curious.
        (Daredevil blue is called Equalizer in the translation, but that's probably an intentional anglicism. "Gleichmacher" would be completely fine. Equalizer is only used as a technical term and most people are going to take it as a proper noun because they haven't heard of it before)
        Also Doctor Doom should tell you how strong the induction tiles are, Human Torch does.

        I'm sure there is more stuff I didn't notice or am forgetting.

        Those are not things I would send a ticket in for, but it's just those details that reflect poorly on the game and show a lack of production quality.
        If you can't explain the ability inside the text boundaries, then either change the ability or get better writers.
      • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
        dragma wrote:
        Actually he sounds like a great defencive character.

        Him and Hulk are gonna make anyone pause.
        Not really. With the laken nerf, hulk isn't even anywhere near as good a scarecrow as he used to be (note: he was never that great at being a scarecrow once you're not in 2* land)
      • IceIX wrote:
        Okay, that's something I don't like.

        It reminds me of the early Classic Storm. If she *wasn't* in front, and you made so much as a tile match, her retaliation would wipe out half your team's health and set up Ragnarok. Every single turn, it was vital to rotate Storm in front or die. It was a bad mechanic.

        Here, the mechanic is to always rotate Colossus away. That's a bit broken. Here's a fix:
          Colossal Punch - Red 11 AP
          Using the incredible power of his organic steel fists, Colossus pummels the enemy. Deals 493 damage. If Colossus is Immovable, he deals an extra 164 damage.
          Level Upgrades
            Level 2: Extra 492 damage if Colossus is Immovable. (As originally written level 2 makes no sense) Level 3: Extra 820 damage if Colossus is Immovable. Level 4: Extra 137 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable. Level 5: Extra 329 damage to other enemies if Colossus is Immovable.
          Max Level: 1565 damage, additional 2610 to target and 1044 to other enemies if Immovable.
          I get what you're saying, but we don't necessarily want it tied to Immovable Object. We want him to be powerful when at the vanguard, which is why it's tied directly to him being in the front instead. If it were tied to Immovable Object, that places the AP cost of a Colossal Punch at 8 Yellow, 11 Red to get the stronger usage out of it. That's a bit much to ask for most use case scenarios, especially for the AI.

          I wish a similar thought process had been done with beast. Instead you basically have pay the blue ap cost than green ap cost to get beast to do anything remotely beastly.
        • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
          Spoit wrote:
          dragma wrote:
          Actually he sounds like a great defencive character.

          Him and Hulk are gonna make anyone pause.
          Not really. With the laken nerf, hulk isn't even anywhere near as good a scarecrow as he used to be (note: he was never that great at being a scarecrow once you're not in 2* land)

          I think he meant that speedster shield-hoppers avoid characters with too much HP. Colossus not only has over 10k HP, but at times will be taking only 50% damage.
        • FierceKiwiFierceKiwi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
          PPPlaya wrote:
          I have a localized(german) version and here are some things I can tell you.

          Patch "the best" translates to : "Deals 113 Damage !TO! each tile that has his symbol and blahblah..." (At first I couldn't even figure out what that does)
          Modern Hawkeye's Avoid used to say "if there are LESS than X tiles on the board" (I ran into that with a nuke more than once)
          Deadpool red isn't translated. Both his purple and black however are.
          Beast green isn't translated. Both his blue and yellow however are.

          *snip*

          I'm sure there is more stuff I didn't notice or am forgetting.

          Those are not things I would send a ticket in for, but it's just those details that reflect poorly on the game and show a lack of production quality.
          If you can't explain the ability inside the text boundaries, then either change the ability or get better writers.

          Uhm why wouldn't you file a ticket? Translation issues won't get fixed if no one bothers to report them. I'm kinda shocked a dev team this small even bothered with a German version.
        • Sentry can bomb anyone to oblivion, but even without him, HP is hardly as valuable as people think at slowing an opponent down. The only reason Hulk even sort of works on defense is because of Daken, and ironically with Daken's strike tiles nerfed there's even less danger than before of accidentally triggering Anger. When you attack Colossus you'd just hold off your AP moves if they got an Immovable Object up, and if you want to talk who I'd prefer to face on defense I'd much rather have 5 turns of reduced damage than a straight up Battleplan, which can actually lead to some of my guys dying if the cascades get nasty.
        • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
          I'm thinking 3/5/5 maybe 4/5/4. Red is too good not to max. While the level 5 yellow is nice you can't guarantee that tile being out 5 turns. You only lose 5% damage reduction. You can still finagle the position to get colossus out front without yellow to use red. And yellow is cheap enough you can cast it often.
        • Hi IceIX, 2 questions about colossus' skill:

          1. Does his yellow (immovable object) protects the entire team from AoE damage?

          2. to confirm, if i use his red while he's at the front, he will deal (at lvl 166) "4175 to target and 2609 to other" OR "4175 to target and 1044 to other"?

          Thanks!
        • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
          Colossus is horrendous, or at the very least incredibly mediocre on defense.
          1. The AI can't use his yellow well. They'll place it randomly which means that some of the time it'll just get immediately matched away and do nothing. As Phantron said, you also just stockpile your AP moves until its done.
          2. You can maneuver around his red. Just don't have him in front when they have 12+ red AP by targetting someone else instead.
          3. Black is 13AP. 13! Even if he gets it off, depending on the character it could do next to nothing.

          With Hulk/C. Marvels, you need to be careful about your strike tile usage and such. With Colossus, as long as you ignore him and manage his red, he's a pushover.
        • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
          But really, I'm not sure why people always use CotS as a benchmark for DPS/AP costs when it's fed by LT's ridiculous AP acceleration, usually only requiring a couple more matches after the cascade
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