Devs, can we please have female characters that don't suck?

babinro

I suppose this entirely depends on your definition of 'suck'.

Psylocke is an excellent support damage character although her desire to tank everything combined with her low health means you don't want to bring her in alone.
Mohawk is excellent given the power of TU's. She's a utility support character and terrible defensively.
OBW and classive Storm are easily among the best ** heroes in the game.

Female characters don't suck in MPQ...but they also don't make up the top tier.

Unknown

the only two good*** female char are psy and capt marvel. She hulk is a joke. Storm is good for one game before she's dead. And grey suit widow is too slow.this game is only focused on money. They release new char nerf the old ones and they have been doing it since the start. So there will be no changes to already existing female characters.

OnesOwnGrief

resume_duel wrote:

the only two good*** female char are psy and capt marvel. She hulk is a joke. Storm is good for one game before she's dead. And grey suit widow is too slow.this game is only focused on money. They release new char nerf the old ones and they have been doing it since the start. So there will be no changes to already existing female characters.

Everyone is a joke until you get facerolled by the AI, then you blame the game for cheating you. Everyone does it.

Pylgrim

First off, I did start agreeing that GSBW is the only one decent of the bunch, I only mentioned that she's overcosted, especially her red. So we all agree in that. Second, sure, I hear you explaining how in this or that narrow situations, or with the correct team (not everyone has the luxury of choice to pick any team from all possible characters, remember), or under this or that light they do not entirely suck. Sure, whatever, glad they're working for you. But you must be in the minority because I NEVER see you guys and your teams of allegedly adequately powerful female heroes. Every other blue moon or so I see a GSBW or a Psylocke and when I do, a quick look at their owner's roster reveals they literally have nothing better. Once, I saw a Storm (it was a super easy game, thank you). The others I've ever only seen in the PVPs where they are mandatory.

I'm not even talking about the hardcore Patchneto/Lakentry teams. My mmr is currently forgiving enough that I get to see a good variety of teams. The "big 7" plus Punisher, BP, Deadpool, Cap, Nick, Doom, HT, Falcon, IM40, Spiderman, and Hulk. Hell, I'm pretty sure I've seen more Daredevils, Lokis and Ragnaroks than any non-GSBW/Psylocke female characters. Starting to see my point? It is ultimately irrelevant that you personally think they are good enough. Hard numbers show that they are by far and large, not as tournament worthy as their male counterparts.

Kelbris

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Didn't you get the memo? m.Storm got nerfed to hell and back. And while MBW's blue is excellent, you'll be hard pressed to put her in the same category as Juggernaut, IM35 or even Venom. And yeah, the point is that none of the most powerful characters (all 7 of them as you yourself list them below) is a female. Not one, among seven. If that's not enough disparity to make you raise an eyebrow, well I guess you are not a great fan of female heroes.

of course MBW isn't in the same category as Juggs, IM or Venom because she's an entirely different type of character. Doesn't mean she's worse than them (well, Juggs maybe, but she certainly holds her own against Venom or IM35). Same really goes for mStorm, she's not as good as she was back when she was easily the best 1", but she's still good. I'd still pick her over Venom and especially IM35. Maybe it's not about being a fan of female heroes than about just not liking what you got...

No. The main argument is that they generally suck, independently of their comparison to the most powerful characters. They either have overcosted abilities (GSBW), or their abilities are plain weak and they are squishy (MoStorm, CapMav) or are even counterproductive to your other characters (She-Hulk). I'll agree that Psylocke is a solid package... until you notice that she's just a weaker Punisher/Black Panther, characters that do not even make your list of most powerful ones.

No, they don't suck. GSBW is rock solid and a regular member of my team. MoStorm and Carol probably will too once I have usuable covers. Even She-Hulks looks pretty promising.

Yes, a new female hero that's absolutely top notch would be nice, but then you'd get people started about nerfing again. I just think you're taking the whole thing way too seriously.

PEMN

You using GSBW doesn't make her come close to contending with Thor, it means you use GSBW

She's a much quicker defense loss than Thor due to low HP and no speed to make up for it

MaskedMan

Black Widow (2 star) is quite useful. I with the 3 star version of her had the same powers. Stealing AP and healing team (even if it isn't as useful as it used to be) can make a big difference. She is great for Thor on Thor fights and such as you can use her to keep IA Thor from collecting Green/Yellow/Red and add to yours at the same time.

I agree with the statements about Moonstone though, she is ALMOST there. Black power is crazy expensive I assume because they are thinking of some of the most powerful timed tiles you could steal but your ability to actually steal one of those is almost non-existent and so becomes irrelevant.

I would also like to see Psylocke's powers fixed. Bewilder is way too expensive considering it usually steals APs enemy doesn't want anyway (that is why it is the largest pool) and I question any timed tile with a 4+timer and a high cost. They should have a long timer OR a large cost not both unless you are dropping full strength Whales on them or something.

NighteyesGrisu

Kelbris wrote:

PEMN

You using GSBW doesn't make her come close to contending with Thor, it means you use GSBW

She's a much quicker defense loss than Thor due to low HP and no speed to make up for it

Well, duh, of course it doesn't. But it does mean that at least for me she doesn't suck, which was the point I was contending. Same for the two other BW all Storms, Psylocke and She-Hulk. None of them suck, which is was the OP was claiming.

Of course she's not a match for thor but then nobody really is. Why they choose to nerf Mags, Spidy, Daken (twice) yet leave him alone probably is only clear the devs, I guess (note, I'm not petitioning for lthor to be nerfed, in fact if I had my way there wouldn't be any upcoming nerfs at all, but that is another story). Btw, who gives a damn about defense anyway?

Long story short: While the game could use a top notch femal character, claiming that all or even most of the current ones suck is just silly.

btw, what does PEMN stand for?

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

None of the 3*/4* female heroes are broken and need to be fixed so of course they're underpowered compared to guys who are broken.

For comparing Call the Storm to Sniper Rifle, there is a very large premium in this game for requiring more matches that increases damage more than linearly. Sniper Rifle is a 7 match ability versus 5 match for Call the Storm, so it should do considerably more damage than Call the Storm which it does not. That's more of a problem with Call the Storm being way too good, not Sniper Rifle being too weak. In terms of attacks that hit the whole team, Rage of the Panther, Call the Storm, and World Rupture pretty much threw balance out the window.

She-Hulk and Captain Marvel would both be pretty darn good if the game was actually balanced. Probably not top 5 but they match up very strongly against certain characters in the top 5, which is more useful in PvE than PvP but even on PvP, if the game was actually balanced it might make a lot of sense to sub in She-Hulk when fighting Punisher, for example.

While I agree with everything you said, I think it's technically a little more complicated than a 7 vs. 5 equation, since both have batteries that fuel their green. Non-scientifically speaking, I think Deceptive Tactics slightly trumps Thunder Strike as a pure battery because of the placement control, even though the move itself produces less greens.

Unknown

The game is never going to be balanced..

Unknown

Guess I'm the only one who thought this headline was a complete troll


Psylock defenitely isn't bad

She hulk is actually great in pve - esp with cmag getting nuked to the ground

GSBW is also great in pve (ai too stupid to really consider her for pvp beyond a beginner roster)

OBW is great until you graduate to 3*

Moho Storm is really good in pve (health is too much of an issue for pvp)

Can we say since thor is officially a female now that Lazy Thor with long blond hair is a female???

Cstorm is also really good in pvp until you graduate to 3* and she's way above average in pve with the right pairings - she basically owned the venom heroic with patch and she hulk tanking her colors

Unknown

Err, let's not go with the 'female characters are quite good' deal either. The only character who is somewhat playable is She-Hulk and that's because Settlement is setup to counter a very large number of special moves on purpose (Judgment for one, but anything that generates less than 3 special tiles can be easily countered), and even then because of the overwhelmingly advantage of the attacker you often still come out behind even if you had Settlement at the perfect time to counter an ability. Just because there seems to be an obsession to make Psylocke a required character in PvE doesn't mean she's actually good. For the rest of the female character we have:

IW: Too expensive to be used in PvE, and still not playable in PvP due to this game's massive emphasis on attacking.

Storm (all of them) - Lack of HPs is a significant drawback for everything unless fighting goons, and if fighting goons just use Patch. Her moves do pretty good damage. Too bad there are plenty of characters who can do a ton of damage that also have a lot of HP. Lightning Strike/Storm is actually quite good but green is overloaded with insanely powerful skills.

GSBW - She's like Thor with a lot less HP, a lot less damage, and a lot slower. Yes Thor is better than almost anyone, but her role is almost exact the same as Thor (strong AE attack, green pump) so there isn't even some kind of marginal tradeoff here.

Psylocke - She pretty much sucks but is worth building because she's forced on the player in a stupid amount of PvE events.

Captain Marvel - Has only one decent move (black). Bullseye is weak and not worth subbing in a weaker character to deal with. Energy Absorption is decent for support, but Hulk does that too and Thunderous Clap is probably better than Hypersonic Punch. She's probably playable but her role completely overlaps with other playable if not better characters, and because she doesn't do anything marginally interesting there's no possible tradeoff here.

OBW - A broken character whom D3 attempted to get rid with the level shift which seems mostly successful. Unlike most broken characters, apparently D3 is aware of her, and even if AR never gets fixed, expect something equally crazy like "OBW mysteriously starts out 20 levels lower than everyone else" if people dared to continue using her in the 3* land.

Moonstone - Playable in 2* land, but since 2* covers are trivial to get you should always OBW + Thor or Ares. The level shift pretty much ensured no 2*s are playable on the high end let alone an average one.

Pylgrim

LoreNYC wrote:

Guess I'm the only one who thought this headline was a complete troll


Psylock defenitely isn't bad

She hulk is actually great in pve - esp with cmag getting nuked to the ground

GSBW is also great in pve (ai too stupid to really consider her for pvp beyond a beginner roster)

OBW is great until you graduate to 3*

Moho Storm is really good in pve (health is too much of an issue for pvp)

Can we say since thor is officially a female now that Lazy Thor with long blond hair is a female???

Cstorm is also really good in pvp until you graduate to 3* and she's way above average in pve with the right pairings - she basically owned the venom heroic with patch and she hulk tanking her colors

Note how to every single entry you have to append "in pve" or "until you graduate to 3*"? I think I have made quite clear though my posts in the thread that I am talking about "tournament level" good, i.e. the top level of competition on PVP.

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Kelbris wrote:

PEMN

You using GSBW doesn't make her come close to contending with Thor, it means you use GSBW

She's a much quicker defense loss than Thor due to low HP and no speed to make up for it

Well, duh, of course it doesn't. But it does mean that at least for me she doesn't suck, which was the point I was contending. Same for the two other BW all Storms, Psylocke and She-Hulk. None of them suck, which is was the OP was claiming.

Of course she's not a match for thor but then nobody really is. Why they choose to nerf Mags, Spidy, Daken (twice) yet leave him alone probably is only clear the devs, I guess (note, I'm not petitioning for lthor to be nerfed, in fact if I had my way there wouldn't be any upcoming nerfs at all, but that is another story). Btw, who gives a damn about defense anyway?

Long story short: While the game could use a top notch femal character, claiming that all or even most of the current ones suck is just silly.

btw, what does PEMN stand for?

It may be the point you were contending but not the one I was. As I mentioned in a post above, it is truly fantastic that you think that they do not suck and have a blast playing them, apparently in exclusion of the unequivocally stronger male characters. More power to you. I am, however, talking about the competition at large, where any given sample of players in a PVP with 400 points or more hardly ever are sporting a female character, and when they do, it's only the two that suck the least, GSBW and Psylocke. And yes, I am using the word suck. If they didn't, they would show up frequently in PVP in the same proportions that the non-OP male characters do. As you see, I'm not even advocating for them to be OP. I just want them to be in the same level of say, Punisher, BP, or Steve Rogers.

over_clocked

Yup. You can bet the only reason people play GSBW is because they don't have a covered lazy Thor yet, or desperately want a purple power, too, something like that. Psylocke, haven't seen her in ages since Fresh Cut. She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Mohawk never come out to play except their featured tourneys either.

Unknown

disagree on she-hulk and carol.
u can pair she-hulk and carol, carol tank and generate a lot of red to spam "power of attorney".
carol danvers is far from suck man, good health and able to generate lot of red and black while absorb damage. After R60 patch, she's X-Force wife in the future.

It's already hard to fight 150+ ares, daken, ragnarok in PVE. So moonstone suck and we need to keep her suck forever

i know what u want,prolly a female char with cheap cost ability that can wipe out any team? a "she-sentry"? lol

OnesOwnGrief

I'm still bitter from the unorthodox GSBW I ran into during a PvP that just cascaded me into oblivion worse than anything I've ever seen. That red is no joke.

NighteyesGrisu

Pylgrim wrote:

It may be the point you were contending but not the one I was. As I mentioned in a post above, it is truly fantastic that you think that they do not suck and have a blast playing them, apparently in exclusion of the unequivocally stronger male characters. More power to you. I am, however, talking about the competition at large, where any given sample of players in a PVP with 400 points or more hardly ever are sporting a female character, and when they do, it's only the two that suck the least, GSBW and Psylocke. And yes, I am using the word suck. If they didn't, they would show up frequently in PVP in the same proportions that the non-OP male characters do. As you see, I'm not even advocating for them to be OP. I just want them to be in the same level of say, Punisher, BP, or Steve Rogers.

First of all, PVP isn't the only thing in MPQ so determining the worth of a character on PVP alone is flawed at best.

Secondly, if you're going by the roster you face at higher levels in PVP you could say that every single character that isn't LT,Daken,Sentry or Hood sucks since higher up those are pretty much all you ever see. I hardly ever see the supposedly unsucky BP, Super Steve or Punisher up there either. So if you made the females equal to them (in your eyes) they'd still not really play a role in the upper tiers of PVP. As for She-Hulk, one of the reasons you never see her in PVP is that only very few players have maxed her...

Thirdly, not being the very best at something doesn't mean they suck, it's not a binary switch...or else pretty much everyone of us here sucks.

Unknown

Captain Marvel might be okay in certain combination but a character whose sole purpose is to help others don't really work well. The only 3 characters that work like that are OBW, The Hood, and Falcon, and all of them are ridiculously broken in their support ability and it led to some rather degenerate balance decision. OBW is basically phased out by level shift, while D3 seems to try to get rid of The Hood by keep on adding new characters that can almost kill him in one move, and Falcon is only limited by the AI's inability to prioritize yellow though he's probably the #1 PvE character in the game as long as Daken exists. Energy Absorption is a good skill but it's not enough to justify a slot for a support role when you can just add someone else who is good at everything. Maybe if Photonic Blast destroyed strike tile instead of protect tiles she'd be playable, and it'd also make her build rather interesting since it's definitely worthwhile to upgrade to a point where you can destroy all strike tiles but that'd involve giving up something else.

She-Hulk's lack of usage is a combination of lack of covers, and that while she might be equal to the Punisher when matched up against the Punisher, she's less than the Punisher when matched up against anyone else. There's just something really wrong with the game design when you look at an ability like Settlement often losing to Battleplan/Judgment even though it's basically designed to counter it, since unless you have it the exact turn they fired off their ability, the extra damage they sneak in before the tiles are converted will usually still favor the offense. Her green is also incredibly bad, perhaps a victim of 'no ability that manipulatse AP can be good after OBW' and 'non true healing ability can never be good' but more than just being useless, it creates some serious problem in building a team because it sits at a convenient spot to intercept a Call the Storm from being used.

Psylocke and GSBW aren't even as good as Captain Marvel or She-Hulk though. The reason why you still see them in PvP is because a lot of people have GSBW leveled back before you suddenly have this crazy power creep, just like how you see those max level IM40 whenver he's featured and it's certainly not because IM40 is good. Psylocke is very average but she's used in a very large number of PvE events so you should get her to a decent level, but that's got nothing to do with how good she is in PvE. Often she's one of the 3 3*s you can even use in a heroic event so it's better than nothing.

woopie

Before the match damage shift on GSBW and before I maxed my 3* Daken, I was actually running GSBW and Lazy Thor into most PVPs and got a good number of defensive wins out of them too. Of course, once she started tanking green over LThor, that team was disbanded. I don't think I've used her in a serious tournament since.

Unknown

Characters have their role and only a small portion of the game is shield hopping after you hit 1k in pvp

Psylock is really really fast and when you're fighting under-powered enemies you really don't want to wait for lthor and his expensive - albeit powerful - abilities

Clearly Sentry is ONLY good for shield hopping and killing that impossible node in pve - granted he's ridiculously OP beyond any pathetic attempt at an argument - and he shouldn't be used as any measuring stick for good character/bad character

PVE is half the game and I agree some people don't like it but many many people prefer it to pvp for potential in variety and allowing you to play with constant interruptions

To say a character sucks unless all 3 abilities are amazing is kind of ridiculous and without seeing a party composition, it's kind of meaningless as well.

What's the last character that the forum deemed just good - not **** op (Sentry) and not Bag.* like beast?

Maybe a new type of Lightning Rounds could require some other characters to spice it up a bit: Lightning Ladies! LOL

whitecat31

What exactly do you have against female characters who suck?