Poll : What's your opinion on Team Up ?

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Anyway, I wonder if most of the anger comes from its introduction in the middle of a PVE, where it has surprisingly increased the difficulty level. I'm interested to hear what people think again after the adjustment period.

I think a lot of the anger has been people losing a match because the defense unloaded a skill that was way, way more powerful than anyone had any reason to expect, and that there's no way of knowing what it is until they're in the match. I haven't lost any that way - yet - but I had a skin-of-my teeth win that halted progress due to an unexpected supernova, and it's just another thing that's punishing to people's health. Plus, not being able to unload them easily means lousy ones are spamming up people's inventory.

For everyone wishing for a better AI, though, they should be happy. This essentially is a huge boost to defensive play.

GrumpySmurf1002

I went with the minority option of 'don't like or dislike.' I think there's a few features (or bugs) about it that need to be cleaned up:

1) Need option to delete bad ones (been discussed at nauseum)
2) Their damage should be modified by strike tiles. This seems like an obvious one. If you're going to take away the environment and make them 'white' tiles, then they should have the characteristics of regular matches. I don't consider it strategy to have to deny white at the cost of more damage after Patch lays down Berzerker.
3) On that note, any ability that says "all colors" should include white. White is a color. Latverian Terrain was not a color. (well it might be in some paint store somewhere, but whatever)
4) Change the shape. I'm probably just an idiot, (ok, definitely just an idiot) but the number of times I've associated the lone white circle with a crit tile and got annoyed that it wasn't a wildcard is embarrassing.
5)Haven't seen this because I haven't used her yet, but do 'random placement' tiles like Storm's Hailstorm write on the white tiles? I get the sense they don't, and if they don't they should.

Think that's it. Otherwise, it adds a few one time abilities that may or may not be useful (AI once had 3 murderous aims in the slots, I chuckled). Not really well thought out it seems, but not disastrous. Like everything else, it seemingly just requires some shift in how you manage your roster and game board.

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

Lastly, you have to remember this feature is on your defensive team as well. This means that other teams that used to beat you easier, will have the same increase in AI difficulty that you are facing on offense.

Although you are correct, I am having fun when I play the game, not when the AI plays my team. So from this change I expect to get a lot more frustrated after a team KO that came out of nowhere and get some satisfaction from an extra defensive win. It seems to me that the ratio fun/frustration I get from the game gets smaller and smaller. The feature is definitely promising, but as with so many other changes in the past, they failed to nail it with the first try. Lets' hope it won't be again 6 months before they decide to fun-balance it.

I posted somewhere else that, imo, what breaks the game is that the abilities cost only TU which is a universal AP for TU abilities. It would be more balanced if the abilities cost ~6 TU AP AND their actual cost. The terrible abilities would still be terrible, but you could sneak in a support or even a high damage ability while you play with your favorite heroes. It would be something extra with a small impact in the game instead of the current implementation which is game-changing and almost always shortens even more the time you can play the game. The fact the you can't deny AP or stun a character to prevent the use of an ability is another reason why the system is broken.

I don't know why, but they seem to want us playing their game less and less with every change. If the drop of active players on Steam (see steamcharts) is an indication of the decline of the game, then "Mission Accomplished".

wymtime

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I went with the minority option of 'don't like or dislike.' I think there's a few features (or bugs) about it that need to be cleaned up:

1) Need option to delete bad ones (been discussed at nauseum)
2) Their damage should be modified by strike tiles. This seems like an obvious one. If you're going to take away the environment and make them 'white' tiles, then they should have the characteristics of regular matches. I don't consider it strategy to have to deny white at the cost of more damage after Patch lays down Berzerker.
3) On that note, any ability that says "all colors" should include white. White is a color. Latverian Terrain was not a color. (well it might be in some paint store somewhere, but whatever)
4) Change the shape. I'm probably just an idiot, (ok, definitely just an idiot) but the number of times I've associated the lone white circle with a crit tile and got annoyed that it wasn't a wildcard is embarrassing.
5)Haven't seen this because I haven't used her yet, but do 'random placement' tiles like Storm's Hailstorm write on the white tiles? I get the sense they don't, and if they don't they should.

Think that's it. Otherwise, it adds a few one time abilities that may or may not be useful (AI once had 3 murderous aims in the slots, I chuckled). Not really well thought out it seems, but not disastrous. Like everything else, it seemingly just requires some shift in how you manage your roster and game board.

Agree with 1-4.
on #5 countdown and attack tiles currently do not go onto TU tiles. This should definatly be an add. If this does happen WR will be the an even bigger beast with 16 CD hitting the board.

GuntherBlobel

Ben Grimm wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Anyway, I wonder if most of the anger comes from its introduction in the middle of a PVE, where it has surprisingly increased the difficulty level. I'm interested to hear what people think again after the adjustment period.

I think a lot of the anger has been people losing a match because the defense unloaded a skill that was way, way more powerful than anyone had any reason to expect, and that there's no way of knowing what it is until they're in the match. I haven't lost any that way - yet - but I had a skin-of-my teeth win that halted progress due to an unexpected supernova, and it's just another thing that's punishing to people's health. Plus, not being able to unload them easily means lousy ones are spamming up people's inventory.

For everyone wishing for a better AI, though, they should be happy. This essentially is a huge boost to defensive play.

Ok, I only started the PVE last night, but what I saw was Lvl 70 World Rupture when fighting lvl 70 Bullseye. I got a much higher level World Rupture TU thrown at me when I was fighting lvl 170 bad guys. It seemed sensible and predictable to me. It does however change things by making lvl 170 Bullseye an actual threat.

Also, I only see Dark Avenger TU powers available to the AI in the PVE. That makes sense in terms of theme and again makes the appearance of Sentry TUs predictable. You should prepare for Sentry, but you needn't plan for Nick Fury. I do wish the game told us this explicitly though.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

The really funny thing. I thought this was the first change that no one would be able to find a reason to complain

I'll make a deal with you. Tell me why I should be happy to face lv 70 **'s who throw a World Rupture at me, and I'll stop complaining.

Sorry, but I stand by what I said. Yes, we get more variety in gameplay... the cost is that we'll be taking more damage in battles. That's not a tradeoff I'm interested in making.

I'm eagerly looking forward to an update to the game that actually lets us play more, rather than adding further constraints by sapping health.

"I'm eagerly looking forward to an update to the game that actually lets us play more, rather than adding further constraints by sapping health"

well said.

Unknown

I skip Team Up now. I've played about 50 matches without it. Don't really see the point now.

We should not get so much garbage... 80 % of those are worthless. We really don't care about abilities that cost so many tiles. The game is over before we can gather them all.

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

It shows effort on the developers part to improve the game.

Interesting. I see it as yet another effort to sell health packs. True Healing must've been very disappointing so far. I mean seriously, every new thing in the game since True Healing has been designed to make us take proportionately more damage in battles. The level up-shift, the balance of power pvp... this teamup nonsense is just more of the same.

The really funny thing. I thought this was the first change that no one would be able to find a reason to complain (aside from the bugs that typically come with a new feature). Now, I just feel stupid. I'm guessing there's nothing that any one can do that there will not be complaints about.

They come up with a feature that makes more teams viable because if you want lets say anti-gravity or aggressive recon, you no longer have obw in your line up to use those.

The "more" damage" people are complaining about is because players had taken for granted the CPU would go after enviro tiles instead of more useful ones. It is not that there is a new feature that is causing the increase in damage. It is the removal of the enviro tiles. Another way to look at it, the AI has been given a buff to the extent that is no longer "throwing" away turns to get enough AP to purchase a hot dog. Therefore, if the enviro tiles had been removed or AI made harder, you would be getting to a large extent the same increase in damage.

Lastly, you have to remember this feature is on your defensive team as well. This means that other teams that used to beat you easier, will have the same increase in AI difficulty that you are facing on offense.

But with it being random my defensive team may try to load up a ballistic salvo that will never go off while yours world ruptures 3 people in a row. PVP didn't need more RNG to help it out.

Unknown

Cannot stand this update. Think of it from a logical standpoint. Every battle is supposed to represent a 3 vs 3 contest between super powered individuals. When, exactly, would one of the team consisting of OBW, Daken and Thor, for example, suddenly unleash a Ballistic Salvo? They wouldn't, because they are not wearing Iron Man's armor. And if Iron Man was there, why wouldn't he join in before or after? It makes no sense from that standpoint, and about the only sense it makes is that everyone will inflict more incomprehensible damage on each other which we cannot plan for or stop. It takes much of the strategy out of the game, which is what makes this game so much fun.

And as for the people who argue that this will give me more defensive wins; I doubt that this will come close to offsetting the number of surprise losses in PVP, and when exactly was your last defensive win in PVE? Had a team of goons down to almost no health and had my entire team wiped out before I could play again. Tell me again how that is supposed to fun? This was advertised as a strategy game. Now you can play using the best strategy you have learned against a certain lineup and get wiped out by a power that should not come into play.

MunitionsFrenzy

Dracodad wrote:

Had a team of goons down to almost no health and had my entire team wiped out before I could play again.

Minions don't generate team-up AP except very situationally by cascades. Why do people keep complaining about the PvE impact of team-ups when it's pretty minimal?

Unknown

My tale of Team-Up woe can be found here: http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13351

As for my opinion?

My opinion is that thank god they worked so hard to make sure this update was ready for Comic-Con. Can you even imagine the chaos it would have caused if they'd actually waited until this feature was ready? After all, they do have a reputation to uphold. And besides, no piece of software is ever released bug-free, so why bother bug checking at all?

Unknown

voted don't like it... the idea sounded cool when it was first announced, but it is hugely flawed imo. I was for some reason under the impression that teamups would come from your roster thus encouraging people to have large rosters, fortunately this proved not to be the case.

What I really don't like about it, is there are far too many varibles in the team ups, various levels for the same powers from the same heroes, for example I have three of the 1 star storm's green ability at level 2 just taking up three of the twenty available inventory slots I have for teams ups. There is no option to delete these things which is annoying.

Second thing I dislike is the fact their use in a fight is actually much more limiting than the old elemental tiles which I "generally" found more useful primarily due to the fact I could use them more often and quicker. I'd be lucky to fire off a team up ability once in most matches never mind sloting three of them to use in a match. And once the teamup ability is used, that's it. In a longer match, those teamup tiles will lose their value and usefulness the moment you have used all three of your team up abilities if you had them slotted.

Third thing is the fact the team up competes with general ap or damage buffs, which are far superior in my opinion either in a long or short fight.

Right now, I"m hugely disappointed with the team up system due to flaws. Sounded good on paper at first, but huge let down thus far

Unknown

EternalLurker wrote:

Dracodad wrote:

Had a team of goons down to almost no health and had my entire team wiped out before I could play again.

Minions don't generate team-up AP except very situationally by cascades. Why do people keep complaining about the PvE impact of team-ups when it's pretty minimal?

Venom and the goons and bullseye and the goons in the current PVE have both hit me with world rupture. May e it wasn't as clear, but these stories that are being told all over this forum actually happen, whether you would like to believe it or not

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

It shows effort on the developers part to improve the game.

Interesting. I see it as yet another effort to sell health packs. True Healing must've been very disappointing so far. I mean seriously, every new thing in the game since True Healing has been designed to make us take proportionately more damage in battles. The level up-shift, the balance of power pvp... this teamup nonsense is just more of the same.

The really funny thing. I thought this was the first change that no one would be able to find a reason to complain (aside from the bugs that typically come with a new feature). Now, I just feel stupid. I'm guessing there's nothing that any one can do that there will not be complaints about.

They come up with a feature that makes more teams viable because if you want lets say anti-gravity or aggressive recon, you no longer have obw in your line up to use those.

The "more" damage" people are complaining about is because players had taken for granted the CPU would go after enviro tiles instead of more useful ones. It is not that there is a new feature that is causing the increase in damage. It is the removal of the enviro tiles. Another way to look at it, the AI has been given a buff to the extent that is no longer "throwing" away turns to get enough AP to purchase a hot dog. Therefore, if the enviro tiles had been removed or AI made harder, you would be getting to a large extent the same increase in damage.

Lastly, you have to remember this feature is on your defensive team as well. This means that other teams that used to beat you easier, will have the same increase in AI difficulty that you are facing on offense.

But with it being random my defensive team may try to load up a ballistic salvo that will never go off while yours world ruptures 3 people in a row. PVP didn't need more RNG to help it out.

Simonsez was right. I was wrong, very wrong. I had not played pve previously or talked to others in my alliance. I can see why other people don't like it. It makes the game more like chess, less like a match 3.

MunitionsFrenzy

stephen43084 wrote:

It makes the game more like chess

This is far and away the last phrase I would have expected to be used as a COMPLAINT against an alleged strategy game.

D3P2K5

Definitely not a fan of it and regretted upgrading my app midway through a PvE. I'm definitely taking much more damage than I normally would have and not having the ability to see what the computer has for TU is really frustrating. It is however, kinda cool that you get to play with some of the powers that you might not have, but then isn't that what feature character PvP is all about?

Unknown

Ad much as I try, I just hate team ups. The entire goal of strategizing around your roster and the opponents is tossed out the window. Even worse is not even being able to preview the TUs until in the match. Please delete it or limit it only to pve. Hell if you would have made TU points accumulate and use it to buy scaled versions in a TU shop, that would be fine too. Say 1000 TU points for SALVO, 1500 for World rupture, etc... so many better ways to implement it get rid of 3 random ones for Ai.

Unknown

EVERY GOD DAMN BATTLE THE AI USES SENTRYS WORLD RUPTURE.



STOP THIS ****

woopie

MikeHock wrote:

EVERY GOD DAMN BATTLE THE AI USES SENTRYS WORLD RUPTURE.



STOP THIS ****

Yep, I got WR'd THREE times in a single battle.

GuntherBlobel

Dracodad wrote:

Cannot stand this update. Think of it from a logical standpoint. Every battle is supposed to represent a 3 vs 3 contest between super powered individuals. When, exactly, would one of the team consisting of OBW, Daken and Thor, for example, suddenly unleash a Ballistic Salvo? They wouldn't, because they are not wearing Iron Man's armor. And if Iron Man was there, why wouldn't he join in before or after? It makes no sense from that standpoint, and about the only sense it makes is that everyone will inflict more incomprehensible damage on each other which we cannot plan for or stop. It takes much of the strategy out of the game, which is what makes this game so much fun.
/quote]
Then you must cheer when the Sentry shows up out of nowhere to decimate the Avengers, because that was all he did in the Dark Reign comics.