*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

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Comments

  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I finally got my Punisher fully-covered, but he's at 5/3/5 which is against the consensus 'ideal build' I know. But I actually like this build. I'm usually more starved for black on my teams than I am green because I'm addicted to LT. I get that the AI is going to use Punisher's green over Thor's but here's the thing: I don't give a tinykitty about defense.

    What I like about Punisher's black is that you hit the whole team for a nice chunk of damage and reduce that attack tile timer of his to two turns. Doesn't blasting the opposing team for almost 2k damage make up for the reduced tiles on green? Or is the black damage the same at 3 as it is at 5? (I forget)

    Anyway... consider this post an open invitation to talk me out of this build.
  • mags1587
    mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    I also like having black at 5, so I'm not going to try to talk you out of that. I will, however, try and talk you into putting 5 in green instead of 5 in red. IMO, the improvement from 3 green to 5 green is so much better than the improvement from 3 red to 5 red. Consider -- how many times are you really going to need that extra 10% vs how many times you'll gain an advantage because of sustained damage via another strike tile on the board?
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    mags1587 wrote:
    IMO, the improvement from 3 green to 5 green is so much better than the improvement from 3 red to 5 red. Consider -- how many times are you really going to need that extra 10% vs how many times you'll gain an advantage because of sustained damage via another strike tile on the board?

    Isn't the red damage jump from 3 to 4 pretty significant, though? I like Punisher's red simply as a damage dealer, with the 40% downing aspect as gravy. Does anyone run a 5/4/4 Punisher?
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    Dormammu wrote:
    What I like about Punisher's black is that you hit the whole team for a nice chunk of damage and reduce that attack tile timer of his to two turns. Doesn't blasting the opposing team for almost 2k damage make up for the reduced tiles on green? Or is the black damage the same at 3 as it is at 5? (I forget)

    Base AOE damage is the same on 3 black at it is on 5 black. The fourth cover increases attack tile damage and the fifth tile reduces the countdown timer from 3 to 2. If you're like me and just use Molotov Cocktail for its AOE damage then going to 5 black does absolutely nothing for you. I just assume that the countdown tile will get destroyed every time and I'm okay with that.
  • mags1587
    mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu wrote:
    mags1587 wrote:
    IMO, the improvement from 3 green to 5 green is so much better than the improvement from 3 red to 5 red. Consider -- how many times are you really going to need that extra 10% vs how many times you'll gain an advantage because of sustained damage via another strike tile on the board?

    Isn't the red damage jump from 3 to 4 pretty significant, though? I like Punisher's red simply as a damage dealer, with the 40% downing aspect as gravy. Does anyone run a 5/4/4 Punisher?

    From level 3 to 4 at max level, damage would go from 1112 to 1482. 370 points of damage vs. an extra 104 strength strike tile doesn't seem like that much.

    And I like black because I can get a couple of attack tiles out there more consistently with a countdown of 2 vs 3. Mileage may vary.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I just can't see not having 5 in green. I prefer 3/5/5, but I think 5/5/3 is a good build, too. But 4G -> 5G is the single biggest "Punisher is less good -> Punisher is more good" jump of any Punisher cover
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I think part of the reason Punisher is so interesting is that there's no clear consensus "right" build. I'm at 3/5/5 and the way I see it is that, while 5 black is certainly not bad and even might be better in your average match, 5 red is a unique power and when you need that extra 10% you really NEED it. Can't go wrong, but I like the extra oomph from red over the more consistent spawning of attack tiles from black. If they upped the AOE damage when moving from 3 to 5 I'd probably make the switch.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu wrote:
    I finally got my Punisher fully-covered, but he's at 5/3/5 which is against the consensus 'ideal build' I know. But I actually like this build. I'm usually more starved for black on my teams than I am green because I'm addicted to LT. I get that the AI is going to use Punisher's green over Thor's but here's the thing: I don't give a tinykitty about defense.

    What I like about Punisher's black is that you hit the whole team for a nice chunk of damage and reduce that attack tile timer of his to two turns. Doesn't blasting the opposing team for almost 2k damage make up for the reduced tiles on green? Or is the black damage the same at 3 as it is at 5? (I forget)

    Anyway... consider this post an open invitation to talk me out of this build.

    I think 5 green is far superior if you aren't running LazyThor. I think it's a waste to have Punisher and LazyThor on the same team: green is both of the characters best ability, and under this team comp you would only be bringing Punisher along for a somewhat situational red and his black which is pretty mediocre without judgement. I think Psylocke would be a much better duo with LazyThor than Punisher would, so I don't see why you are building Punisher under the assumption that you're always going to be pairing him up with LazyThor in the first place.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    mine end with 4/5/4, black cover still in the cache, after few pvp/pve fight, I think red at 4 are ok, make it 5 may overkill in the most case, and black at 4 are ok too, cuz title damage are increased. I think 4/5/4 are better than 5/5/3(black lose 1 cd timing but red damage maxed)
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Joeblack wrote:
    mine end with 4/5/4, black cover still in the cache, after few pvp/pve fight, I think red at 4 are ok, make it 5 may overkill in the most case, and black at 4 are ok too, cuz title damage are increased. I think 4/5/4 are better than 5/5/3(black lose 1 cd timing but red damage maxed)

    I disagree: black 3->4 is extremely marginal since you never cared about the attack tile damage anyways. having the 40% red could be a thousand or 2's difference in damage. 3->4 black attack tile would maybe get you an extra hundred or two damage if you actually get the attack tile out.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I knew I'd get talked out of my 5/3/5 build, I just needed a gentle nudge. icon_e_wink.gif

    Okay, so now here's my next question. Who would you ideally partner a 3/5/5 Punisher with from the following cast, assuming everyone is max level?

    Black Panther (5/3/5)
    GSBW (5/3/5)
    C. Magneto (5/3/5)
    Psylocke (5/3/5)
    Spider-Man (4/5/4)
    Hulk (5/3/5)
    Lazy Thor (3/5/5)
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    there is literally nobody who punisher is a bad pairing for
    Even with GSBW, he makes up for her **** red and tanks for her on green
    except maybe psylocke :/
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu wrote:
    I knew I'd get talked out of my 5/3/5 build, I just needed a gentle nudge. icon_e_wink.gif

    Okay, so now here's my next question. Who would you ideally partner a 3/5/5 Punisher with from the following cast, assuming everyone is max level?

    Black Panther (5/3/5)
    GSBW (5/3/5)
    C. Magneto (5/3/5)
    Psylocke (5/3/5)
    Spider-Man (4/5/4)
    Hulk (5/3/5)
    Lazy Thor (3/5/5)

    C. Mags is by far the best character you could ever pair up Punisher with. The two have so much synergy together that it's completely ridiculous. Copy pasted from my guide: Punisher + C. Mags - Same reasoning as above: Punisher makes strike tiles, C. Mags spams blue match 4s and red projectiles. Punisher only gives 300 strike tiles, but he's a lot safer to use than Patch since you can just throw down the tiles whenever as opposed to having to wait till you have enough red/blue for C. Mags to use.
    One additional plus that this team has is that Punisher makes env crits insane. Punisher does 4 env damage and has a 4x crit multiplier, so if you crit an env match 3, you're going to get (4*3)*4=48 env AP, which is a single tile away from jungle or 2 activations of desert. Patch does 3 damage and has a 4 mutliplier, so critting an env match 3 would get you (3*3)*4= 36 AP, which means that you're more than 4 tiles away from doing the same thing. This makes a ridiculously huge difference since getting a jungle activation 2-3 turns earlier snowballs you into a ridiculous lead. Normally this type of stuff is more of a bonus, but when you can force crits with C. Mags, making these env crits becomes the main focus of your strategy on those environments. Punisher's green also lets you restock the board with blue tiles if you matched all of the blue tiles away with C. Mags blue. C. Mags is by far the best partner for Punisher: you get 5/6 useful colors between the two of them and insane synergy.
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    I think it's a waste to have Punisher and LazyThor on the same team: green is both of the characters best ability, and under this team comp you would only be bringing Punisher along for a somewhat situational red and his black which is pretty mediocre without judgement.

    Doesn't Punisher and Lazy Thor make a fairly decent defensive team for someone in the 2* to 3* transition period? If the opposing player goes for Thor first then Punisher is hitting them with Judgement every few turns. If he goes for Punisher first then he's going to have to face a Lazy Thor at full health that's halfway to Call the Storm.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    vudu3 wrote:
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    I think it's a waste to have Punisher and LazyThor on the same team: green is both of the characters best ability, and under this team comp you would only be bringing Punisher along for a somewhat situational red and his black which is pretty mediocre without judgement.

    Doesn't Punisher and Lazy Thor make a fairly decent defensive team for someone in the 2* to 3* transition period? If the opposing player goes for Thor first then Punisher is hitting them with Judgement every few turns. If he goes for Punisher first then he's going to have to face a Lazy Thor at full health that's halfway to Call the Storm.

    Punisher is pretty average on defense, since in order to maximize his abilities, a normal player would need to prioritize green matches for judgement, only use molotov after judgement, and then only use retribution when the opponent is under 30%. An AI is not going to do any of this: he's going to randomly get green AP and maybe fire off judgement halfway/late into the match where it has significantly less impact, and just spam molotov/retribution whenever. The two characters are an okay team only because they are one man armies by themselves. I don't think that they compliment each other very well or have any real synergies with each other, so I would recommend against building the two together unless they're your only relevant covered characters when making the 2->3* transition. You're going to be using both of them once you have a developed 3* roster, but I usually find that the team only has room for one or the other, so you should only pair them together if you have no other viable options.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spider-Man seems like an obvious buddy for Punisher and C.Mags because of his colors. He adds purple match damage (plus defense tiles) and a use for yellow, though he and Mags might compete a bit for blue.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu wrote:
    Spider-Man seems like an obvious buddy for Punisher and C.Mags because of his colors. He adds purple match damage (plus defense tiles) and a use for yellow, though he and Mags might compete a bit for blue.

    I used to run Spidey with the pair, but realized that I didn't need it. The problem is that C. Mags/Punisher is so good on offense already that you don't really need the security of Spidey lock/heal, not to mention that Spidey is pretty meh on defense in PvP and is unplayable in PvE due to pushing up your scaling. I use him for the unbeatable 350+ PvE nodes, but besides that haven't touched the character in multiple weeks. Hood is a far better support imo: he gives a pretty good yellow, and I hear that stealing rainbow AP is pretty useful when you have relevant abilities in all of the colors.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    So.... I have a Punisher that is 5/2/5, and I'm thinking of pouring some ISO into him, but I'm hesitant because I only have the 2 in his green, and his green is what HAS to be maxed. Should I just level him and then hope I get the covers at some point?
  • Killjoy00
    Killjoy00 Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    I disagree that his 3 is required. I ran him for a long time at 5/3/5 and he was great. Better for longer fights for sure. I run him 3/5/5 now, but I would not hesitate to get him to 141 at 5/3/5.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    actually there's pretty much no situation where 5b/3g is more damage than 3b/5g apart from an extremely short fight where you can't get enough green to fire off before the match ends

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