Not with a bang but with a whimper. A poll on burnout in MPQ.

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The problem for the Devs is that introducing new events not tied to significant (normally) MCU tie-in's is a deficit when it comes to time and cost - they don't make any money from it unless they have characters too. Ideally they need multiple character releases running along side these to make it worth their while. I guess they could have done something for Eternals but were maybe wary people wouldn't have enough interest in the characters to develop a new PvE or event tied into it. We do have some newer goon types which might be rife for new events moving forward but probably they are waiting for something to tie into.
    We haven't had a new Boss Event for ages but then again some players complain about those too as they slow down resource acquisition.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    They have already decreased the playtime in scl 10 from 4/3 to 3/2. Milestones also help to increase rewards in all areas.

    If developers were to raise rewards for all to account for inflation, are players also willing to spend more to help them to deal with inflation as well? 

    I remember some players floating the ideas of locking new pves behind paywall, like VIP. MCOC has something similar and I think a similar concept is something like a battle-pass. You pay $15 a month to unlock these special pves. They have different tiers of Battle Pass like Basic, Standard and Premium. This is where the dev can earn money if they are not releasing characters for 2 or 4 weeks. 
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 432 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2021
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    There are a number of problems, but I deal with them.
    Bro.
    You repeatedly jump from 1 to Z without showing any understanding of the former statements.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    They have already decreased the playtime in scl 10 from 4/3 to 3/2. Milestones also help to increase rewards in all areas.

    If developers were to raise rewards for all to account for inflation, are players also willing to spend more to help them to deal with inflation as well? 

    I remember some players floating the ideas of locking new pves behind paywall, like VIP. MCOC has something similar and I think a similar concept is something like a battle-pass. You pay $15 a month to unlock these special pves. They have different tiers of Battle Pass like Basic, Standard and Premium. This is where the dev can earn money if they are not releasing characters for 2 or 4 weeks. 

    To be fair that was done (as best I can recall) to increase engagement in SCL10 which had obviously been less than hoped for so obviously the Devs had done their home work and come to the conclusion that decreasing the number of clears was a win/win for both sides. It wasn't just to appease players.


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Won't increasing stats for old 5* make pvp or pve harder? Do players really like to play against boosted 5* with 180k to 200k hp, and ~6k match-3 damage, instead of 110k-130k hp and 3-4k match-3 damage?

    As for publishing mmr data, they did so in the past but I think players were using it to their advantages. So, in the past, they did a number of changes to pvp mmr to reduce "abuses"?

    As for reducing the number of clears, I remember many players, especially those T5 players, complaining how the scl 10 is such a time-sink. The dev then reduced the number of clears. I think they were used to 20-25 minutes clear time instead of 30-35minutes clear times. So, when players float SCL 11, history is going to repeat again. Currently, Shang Chi can hit for 400k damage. I think the healthpool of SCL 11 opponents will probably be 1.2-1.6mil hp. 

    So, do players like the idea of locking extra non-time based pves behind $15 paywall? This will give you increased rewards and allow you to use different characters.

  • MegaBee
    MegaBee Posts: 982 Critical Contributor
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    HoundofShadow said:

    So, do players like the idea of locking extra non-time based pves behind $15 paywall? This will give you increased rewards and allow you to use different characters.

    No, thank you.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    It's important to remember that this is a match 3 game: it's his strong point and its limit.
    But it has solid and deep improving characters and roster mechanics that grants and marks the player progress in game. 
    It can be played casual or highly commited and it depends on each player's will. The casual player burnout is totally different of the likes of a highly commited top player.
    Even for strong rosters who can do it, playing scl10 competitively it adds a ton of stress than playing it just for progression. 
    And each player should identify what is the cause of his burnout and to take the right decisions for him having more fun, like playing more, playing less, playing just for progression, playing a lower scl, take a break, etc...
    Playing a lot will mean higher progression and more leveled characters but not all people like match 3 games for to do that, or just job and family won't let.
    Personally I would love more new content and I think it could be funny. 
    I think I will play a lot of years more just taking minor adjustements for breathing in  like playing pve just for progression or skipping a pvp: I've already checked that if I miss 20 5*shards or a 4* cover the world continues spinning.
    P.S: On the other hand, I've already checked too that if the 4*s or 5*s new releases don't have a good welcoming, quitting sentences use to gain popularity. 
  • JRYUART
    JRYUART Posts: 95 Match Maker
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    Other....(please elaborate)
    HoundofShadow said:
    They have already decreased the playtime in scl 10 from 4/3 to 3/2. Milestones also help to increase rewards in all areas.

    If developers were to raise rewards for all to account for inflation, are players also willing to spend more to help them to deal with inflation as well? 

    I remember some players floating the ideas of locking new pves behind paywall, like VIP. MCOC has something similar and I think a similar concept is something like a battle-pass. You pay $15 a month to unlock these special pves. They have different tiers of Battle Pass like Basic, Standard and Premium. This is where the dev can earn money if they are not releasing characters for 2 or 4 weeks. 
    Many console games have paid DLC expansions such as Monster Hunter, Ghost of Tsushima , etc that I have willingly paid for just because they extend the existing gameplay even further .  A prime example is Monster Hunter, whose feedback loop of hunt monsters , loot monsters for materials, craft armor/weapon upgrades, hunt harder monsters , repeat keeps the players engaged until they reach the endgame. Then they released an expansion that allowed you to use those fully min/maxxed hunters in new locales against new monsters and thus, continued to actively engage their playerbase.

    Everyone acknowledges that the developers are a for-profit company and I have no problem with them trying to earn.  I am mostly f2p now but have spent in the past. But if they are looking for ways to continue keeping an engaged audience, consider offering us new content worth spending for and I would happily pay for it.  Otherwise, more and more players will start to feel the same way as OP with the burnout.  It’s not like the base gameplay and engine need to significantly reworked.  But over the course of 7+ years, we should have way more varieties of events than we do at this point in this game’s life cycle.   There are only so many times you can beat/clear the same events albeit with different characters/approaches before it’s just not all that fun anymore; it’s just novelty at that point. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    Won't increasing stats for old 5* make pvp or pve harder? Do players really like to play against boosted 5* with 180k to 200k hp, and ~6k match-3 damage, instead of 110k-130k hp and 3-4k match-3 damage?

    As for publishing mmr data, they did so in the past but I think players were using it to their advantages. So, in the past, they did a number of changes to pvp mmr to reduce "abuses"?

    As for reducing the number of clears, I remember many players, especially those T5 players, complaining how the scl 10 is such a time-sink. The dev then reduced the number of clears. I think they were used to 20-25 minutes clear time instead of 30-35minutes clear times. So, when players float SCL 11, history is going to repeat again. Currently, Shang Chi can hit for 400k damage. I think the healthpool of SCL 11 opponents will probably be 1.2-1.6mil hp. 

    So, do players like the idea of locking extra non-time based pves behind $15 paywall? This will give you increased rewards and allow you to use different characters.


    I thought we were told there never would be a SCL11 and 10 was as high as we go? It was quite a while ago so perhaps I am mis-remembering. Times change as well.


  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 432 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2021
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    There are a number of problems, but I deal with them.
    Would it? If it plays bad in PVE then the encounter can be leveled down. If it's good in PVP it just gives the top tier more to chase. Most of the diehards are what they sound like and don't run away from new challengers.
    I'm pretty sure what you think you're referring to is re: cupcakes and stated badly. That was a change on the defensive side of PVP and has nothing to do with anything else you said.
    When I was a child, my mother used to tell me stories about clear numbers and trying to reduce them and I really didn't understand that at all. She just kept railing on about it and I can't ever remember bringing it up and I'm real sad it occupied her so. I wish I could have understood how to tell her that she's afraid of nothing.
    1-Z bud.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think the lack of new PvE probably has something to do with the MCU releases this year. Black Widow - we got that content in 2020. Shang Chi and Eternals - these two were relatively unknown properties and the Devs probably didn't want to risk putting resources, time and effort into development. That leaves us Spider-man: No Way Home which under most circumstances is our prime candidate for premium release to work with. The problem is, barring what we don't yet know, we don't have a lot to work with for the Devs. We already have two Boss Events based around Spider-man and all of the characters that we know about so far are already represented in-game in some way or other.
    Maybe 2022 will be our year?
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If releasing data about pvp allow for abuse, then the dev is highly unlikely to release any data for pvp mmr anymore. Anyway, mmr in pvp isn't much of a mystery for those who ask and for those who post in the forum. You just need to understand the big picture and you'll know how to play around it.

    The dev mentioned in the podcast or somewhere before that one new pve takes them about two months to be completed. I think character creation takes about 2-4 weeks? (Can't remember exactly).

    As for new contents, how opened are players to MPQ turning into Candy Crush where they have different shaped boards and different win conditions? This will probably freshen things up for some players?

    If SCL 10 and 5* is the final endgame contents, we need to be prepared that MPQ shall cease to exist in the next 1-2 years. Currently, there's nothing much for top tier players to do when they are clearing pves in 15-20 minutes. With the current 5* boost, getting top 10 in scl 10 is much easier for baby champed 5* players. As for the rest of players who are committed to the game, they are just playing catch-up for now. This state of the game reminds me of Thanos being a farmer after snapping the world in half.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 4,917 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    Timemachinego said:
    Here's some fact: 99% of those casual players aren't paying and aren't worth considering. The game already had the hooks to bring them in (match-3, marvel characters) and if they don't play far enough in to get the sense that there's more to offer, that's on them. That said, D3 have made efforts to bring them in deeper (like the tutorial videos) so they're still trying.

    What matters is getting players on board that WILL spend and those tend to be the ones that want to DO ALL THE THINGS and to do so with decent speed. I've not been here long, but I'm already seeing allied players moving through the spaces I knew and most of them have been spending along the way. We need a continuous flow of players like that. Being just barely ahead of them, I've got a really good sense of what the choke-points are and hope to offer decent ways of addressing them.
    No one is asking for free anything, it's about charting a smoother course forward.
    They make most of their money from those casual players, who spend small amounts regularly. 

    Actually you've got things entirely backwards -- as players move from casual to competitive these days, they spend *less*.  The whale tier of the game is gone, but (unlike most mobile games) they never depended on the whales.

    They rely on selling a whole ton of $5 purchases to a whole ton of extremely casual players.  The number of competitive players is extremely low and always has been.

    This is why the game has survived as long as it has and why it'll continue to survive.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Things can easily change - they once said they would never directly sell 5* covers and yet we have a Kitty bundle with enough shards for a cover (hidden behind a costume). 6* and SCLX might well be in our future.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    A lot of people seems really interested on 6* characters. I find ironic after complaining about new 5*s power creep they just want more power creep. I think it's a feature which could bear more harm than good. And in lower tiers with just 1 cover of a 6* the player could be invincible. Or if just that cover could open MMR, how many players would like it?

    I would really like scl11. However there are roughly 11k players on scl10 and aprox 15k on scl9. I don't know if there is enough room for scl11 or how many players would play. 

    I think they know it all very well on their tracks, and if a new feature costs too much effort and it's not sure its success, they let it slip away.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,115 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    The game has come a long way to be what it is now, which is a really good game. It still has some issues, but I think people are nitpicking at it now. I think it’s biggest current issue is the bloated 4* tier. Progression for new players is faster than ever, and I mean that literally. When I hit Day 60 with my new roster, I’ll show how much can be accomplished, if you’re dedicated. If someone is playing casually, then they shouldn’t expect to hang with the big dogs. Proper perspective and expectations are the key to happiness. 
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
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    I can see some problems, but still play regularly. I am happy with most things in the game.
    As for new contents, how opened are players to MPQ turning into Candy Crush where they have different shaped boards and different win conditions? This will probably freshen things up for some players?

    The next best match 3 game I've played was Gems of War on Switch (but also android, pc IOS).  

    The powers were a lot more based on winfinites and large colour changings or destruction. And if you matched higher than 3, you'd get another turn. Board may have been 1 or 2 tiles larger on both axis too. They rotated the events weekly (1, 2, 3, 4 , 1, 2, 3, 4) and not only were the new troops (characters) released regularly with power scaling, there were limited time weapons and whatnot which changed your player character and there powers.  

    They released an expansion type thing, but the game was too grindy for my liking at that point. 

    As for different shaped boards, don't like it. Keep it varying levels of Squares or rectangles. Even locked tiles annoy me ^^.   @HoundofShadow
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I played Gems of War on Android for about a year or more, but I have stopped playing it. I remember there are quite a number of winfinites in there as well. You get extra turn for match-4, and they have a lot of events and quests. I find that they have too many non-time based quests, that's why I stopped playing. And their pvp is quite a mess. It's impossible to get top ranking unless you grind or I heard some players are using bots to grind those matches. I think this is weird to say this but I think I got content overload from it.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
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    I am getting tired. The game has become a slog. Still playing.
    Srheer0 said:
    As for new contents, how opened are players to MPQ turning into Candy Crush where they have different shaped boards and different win conditions? This will probably freshen things up for some players?

    The next best match 3 game I've played was Gems of War on Switch (but also android, pc IOS).  

    The powers were a lot more based on winfinites and large colour changings or destruction. And if you matched higher than 3, you'd get another turn. Board may have been 1 or 2 tiles larger on both axis too. They rotated the events weekly (1, 2, 3, 4 , 1, 2, 3, 4) and not only were the new troops (characters) released regularly with power scaling, there were limited time weapons and whatnot which changed your player character and there powers.  

    They released an expansion type thing, but the game was too grindy for my liking at that point. 

    As for different shaped boards, don't like it. Keep it varying levels of Squares or rectangles. Even locked tiles annoy me ^^.   @HoundofShadow
    Gems of War has always had an 8x8 board, unless it's a newer thing. The gems and the board there are/seem just "bigger" somehow than in MPQ. :)
    It may have the extra turn on a match-4 but as a trade-off the general rule is firing a power will end your turn (unless it causes board shake and match-4's). Even then, strong characters could have a passive breaking that. Or it was activating a status effect ("frozen" I think) that would work the same, I forget.
    Gems definitely felt like they had more variety of game modes than in MPQ. Eventually, it seems they got to too many resources, it was just too complicated for my taste and I stopped returning to it (when MPQ felt too boring). But for a while, I was enjoying Gems more, and if not for my alliance, I might have quit MPQ for real (for a while at least... :D )

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