Tony_Foot said: Vhailorx said: (Also, I continue to think that demi's determination to continue stuffing the 4* tier over-full is bad for the game.) Yep imagine having to look at that wall of required iso. I don't even read them, I couldn't care less if they removed 2/3rds of them. Nothing but champ rewards at this point. In fact Wiccan was my Deadpool Spicy vault this week and I was shocked to see it was level 332. Somehow I've gathered 60 odd champ levels and I've never used him. Don't even know what he does. along with every other 4 star since about 3 years ago.I look one up if I see someone say 'try Wiccan with the new five star because xyz'Give the new players a chance, reduce iso to champ a 4* by half.
Vhailorx said: (Also, I continue to think that demi's determination to continue stuffing the 4* tier over-full is bad for the game.)
Vhailorx said: Tony_Foot said: Vhailorx said: (Also, I continue to think that demi's determination to continue stuffing the 4* tier over-full is bad for the game.) Yep imagine having to look at that wall of required iso. I don't even read them, I couldn't care less if they removed 2/3rds of them. Nothing but champ rewards at this point. In fact Wiccan was my Deadpool Spicy vault this week and I was shocked to see it was level 332. Somehow I've gathered 60 odd champ levels and I've never used him. Don't even know what he does. along with every other 4 star since about 3 years ago.I look one up if I see someone say 'try Wiccan with the new five star because xyz'Give the new players a chance, reduce iso to champ a 4* by half. yup, for at least 3-4 years every new 4* had been either so OP as to be absolutely essential (stunner Bros, Polaris) or utterly superfluous except indicate as they make navigating the roster page incrementally harder. There is no middle ground with 4*s anymore; the tier is just too full.
entrailbucket said: Do people really want every 4* to be Bishop or Polaris? There's not really a middle ground for 4* -- if they're useful at all to 5* players then they're way overpowered at the 4* tier.
Anon said: entrailbucket said: Do people really want every 4* to be Bishop or Polaris? There's not really a middle ground for 4* -- if they're useful at all to 5* players then they're way overpowered at the 4* tier. Polaris is really good for her tier but Bishop was just fine in 4* land. 5* land is what broke him. But R4G, Vulture, America, Coulson, Karnak, and Rogue are all 4* that are fine within their tier but still get 5* play. If OBW is considered a 2.5*, then there can also be 4* that can be considered 4.5* right?
entrailbucket said: Vhailorx said: Tony_Foot said: Vhailorx said: (Also, I continue to think that demi's determination to continue stuffing the 4* tier over-full is bad for the game.) Yep imagine having to look at that wall of required iso. I don't even read them, I couldn't care less if they removed 2/3rds of them. Nothing but champ rewards at this point. In fact Wiccan was my Deadpool Spicy vault this week and I was shocked to see it was level 332. Somehow I've gathered 60 odd champ levels and I've never used him. Don't even know what he does. along with every other 4 star since about 3 years ago.I look one up if I see someone say 'try Wiccan with the new five star because xyz'Give the new players a chance, reduce iso to champ a 4* by half. yup, for at least 3-4 years every new 4* had been either so OP as to be absolutely essential (stunner Bros, Polaris) or utterly superfluous except indicate as they make navigating the roster page incrementally harder. There is no middle ground with 4*s anymore; the tier is just too full. I think the alternatives are all worse, from a player's perspective.Barring a total rework of their monetization scheme, which is presumably off the table after 8 years, they *cannot ever* stop releasing new characters. Right now we get 4/5/4/5...if we want less 4*, they could go to 4/5/5/4/5/5, or they could just completely stop making 4* at all and go 5/5/5 every 2 weeks.Another possibility is 6*, would we like it if the release order went 5/5/6?
Vhailorx said:(and before pointing out how new 4*s are important for newer players building their 4* bench, I will point out that in the absence of new 4*s to collect, newer 4* players would just be collecting the old 4*s who fill all the same niches as the new 4*s.
Vhailorx said: entrailbucket said: Vhailorx said: Tony_Foot said: Vhailorx said: (Also, I continue to think that demi's determination to continue stuffing the 4* tier over-full is bad for the game.) Yep imagine having to look at that wall of required iso. I don't even read them, I couldn't care less if they removed 2/3rds of them. Nothing but champ rewards at this point. In fact Wiccan was my Deadpool Spicy vault this week and I was shocked to see it was level 332. Somehow I've gathered 60 odd champ levels and I've never used him. Don't even know what he does. along with every other 4 star since about 3 years ago.I look one up if I see someone say 'try Wiccan with the new five star because xyz'Give the new players a chance, reduce iso to champ a 4* by half. yup, for at least 3-4 years every new 4* had been either so OP as to be absolutely essential (stunner Bros, Polaris) or utterly superfluous except indicate as they make navigating the roster page incrementally harder. There is no middle ground with 4*s anymore; the tier is just too full. I think the alternatives are all worse, from a player's perspective.Barring a total rework of their monetization scheme, which is presumably off the table after 8 years, they *cannot ever* stop releasing new characters. Right now we get 4/5/4/5...if we want less 4*, they could go to 4/5/5/4/5/5, or they could just completely stop making 4* at all and go 5/5/5 every 2 weeks.Another possibility is 6*, would we like it if the release order went 5/5/6? It's definitely not an easy problem to fix. That is not really relevant to a player; we just play the game (or not if we don't like it) and it's the devs' job to make and keep the game fun and rewarding. So I don't see any problem as a player with identifying problems even if I don't also have the "right" solutions ready to go. The 4* tier is basically a waste of everyone's time right now insofar new entries are either completely unnecessary or eye-wateringly over-powered. I just don't see much value in a tier that makes up the majority of the game and gets a new character every month but has almost no effect on anyone's gameplay experience.(and before pointing out how new 4*s are important for newer players building their 4* bench, I will point out that in the absence of new 4*s to collect, newer 4* players would just be collecting the old 4*s who fill all the same niches as the new 4*s.
Bad said: Also, the argument of newer players in the absence of new 4*s would just collect the olds 4*s is not valid.In this way a new player would find a wall impossible to overcome, being this game running for 8 years. At least in each new release, all players start from zero, new players have a more easy time on their pvps, and they can grind for champing them on the events and start making their way.
Bad said: 2* or 3* characters are the easiests to obtain, while 4*s are extremely hard.A new player cannot compete with vet players on a event featuring old 4*s as those vets will have them maxed without a doubt. Shutting down 4*s releases benefits vet players. And without new players hardly any game can run.
entrailbucket said: I wouldn't mind them moving to a 4/5/5/4/5/5 cadence but I think that would make a lot of people very upset. I don't even want to think about what'd happen if they went to 5/5/5 only, or to 5/5/6. It would be very ugly. So they're sort of stuck, unless they just decide to make the game they want to make and ignore the negative reaction.
Vhailorx said: entrailbucket said: I wouldn't mind them moving to a 4/5/5/4/5/5 cadence but I think that would make a lot of people very upset. I don't even want to think about what'd happen if they went to 5/5/5 only, or to 5/5/6. It would be very ugly. So they're sort of stuck, unless they just decide to make the game they want to make and ignore the negative reaction. I agree that demi is a bit trapped by the success of the 5* launch. I think the popularity of buy clubs and mega-whaling outstripped d3/demi's wildest dreams and has kept the game alive way past a normal mobile game lifespan, but it also makes further progress difficult. People spent SO MUCH money building those 550 rosters that they will riot if a 6* tier is released and obviates that investment. I think the initial vision for supports was as a new end game chase item that would allow the devs to make 5*s more available and phase out 4*s faster while still leaving a prestige item for the whales and not undercutting their rosters. but that idea crashed and burned ~2.5 years ago and demi still hasn't moved to a plan B, not even something relatively straight forward like a prestige-leveling system.