***** Gamora (Deadliest Woman) *****

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Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Her black power reminds me of Monica's purple somewhat. Even if Gamora's black power gets the damage reduced a little, it's no big deal. First of all, everything is linked to the targeted character. The timer will increase if and only if the target gets damaged. Most importantly, you must let the target gain aps so that he can fire power. Unfortunately, what match AI makes are not exactly predictable or consistent. If you are unlucky, non-targeted enemies gain aps and fire their powers. I'm not sure if this tradeoff is worth it. Such power works best on SCL 10 goons. Any lower than that and it's overkill. 

    If they change the requirement from targeted to non-targeted in exchange for lower damage, I wouldn't mind that.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Come to think of it, this makes it the second ability to counter the defensive/damage reducing meta. Ultron is the first to do that.



    Knull's passive is also a weak attempt at countering hulk with the permanent health reduction. Odin is the first 5* who can affect opponent team up ap pools I can think of, even though it too is a weak attempt since it isn't specifically targeted or immediate.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well, the way I read her yellow, is that she has a powerful repeater dealing damage and stunning each 2 turns, and the tradeoff is that partners reducing damage cannot reduce friendly damage if she cast it.
    Friendly damage reduction, not enemy damage reduction. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,544 Chairperson of the Boards
    Y'know I can sort of see where you are coming from with that @Bad in which case her yellow throws your own Switch and Colossus under the bus! However that also means the AI will definitely suicide with it on defence.
    I guess we have to wait and see which it is.

  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    Well, the way I read her yellow, is that she has a powerful repeater dealing damage and stunning each 2 turns, and the tradeoff is that partners reducing damage cannot reduce friendly damage if she cast it.
    Friendly damage reduction, not enemy damage reduction. 
    Her yellow does damage, and then produces a repeater that stuns.  The repeater doesn't do damage.  At least that is how I read it.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes it's like that. However is a cheap power and can be fired multiple times, so she can potentially stun the whole enemy team. 
  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    heybub said:
    Bad said:
    Well, the way I read her yellow, is that she has a powerful repeater dealing damage and stunning each 2 turns, and the tradeoff is that partners reducing damage cannot reduce friendly damage if she cast it.
    Friendly damage reduction, not enemy damage reduction. 
    Her yellow does damage, and then produces a repeater that stuns.  The repeater doesn't do damage.  At least that is how I read it.
    Agreed, the damage from her yellow reads as only being done when yellow is cast.
    Regarding the damage reduction prevention, friendly damage is damage that friends do, not damage done to friends.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    Well, the way I read her yellow, is that she has a powerful repeater dealing damage and stunning each 2 turns, and the tradeoff is that partners reducing damage cannot reduce friendly damage if she cast it.
    Friendly damage reduction, not enemy damage reduction. 

    "Gamora strikes her foe, emitting a concussive wave that knocks enemies off their guard. Deals 1181 damage to the target and creates a 3-turn Yellow Repeater tile that stuns a random enemy for 1 turn when it activates. While this tile is on the board, friendly damage cannot be reduced."
    The bold part is what makes me think its enemy damage reduction because by the description of the power they are knocked off their guard ie lowered defenses.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    "Gamora strikes her foe, emitting a concussive wave that knocks enemies off their guard. Deals 1181 damage to the target and creates a 3-turn Yellow Repeater tile that stuns a random enemy for 1 turn when it activates. While this tile is on the board, friendly damage cannot be reduced."
    The bold part is what makes me think its enemy damage reduction because by the description of the power they are knocked off their guard ie lowered defenses.

    Knocked off their guard means stun.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    Friendly damage (self-harm) can’t be reduced anyway though outside of a very few old character exceptions (vision, spider-woman, 3* colossus, maybe a couple others). I’m curious what this wording will ultimately mean.
  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    Yes it's like that. However is a cheap power and can be fired multiple times, so she can potentially stun the whole enemy team. 
    Potentially is the key word there.  If you get 21 yellow AP (which is alot), you could have 3 repeaters out there which would stun 1 random enemy each every 2 turns.  Since it is random, it might two or even three might hit the same target, meaning there is a chance that you only stun1 target every two turns for a single turn. Or you might get lucky and stun the entire team for a single turn every two turns.  But it does also do some mediocre damage and can be used to target defensive teams (this part is situational).

    G4mora's blue stuns the target guaranteed for 4 turns, and another for a single turn and only costs 6 blue AP, oh and it also creates an attack or strike tile that feeds her black passive.  That can be so much more useful in that you can stun the target you want for 4 turns.



      
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker

    Bad said:
    TheRiddler said:
    "Gamora strikes her foe, emitting a concussive wave that knocks enemies off their guard. Deals 1181 damage to the target and creates a 3-turn Yellow Repeater tile that stuns a random enemy for 1 turn when it activates. While this tile is on the board, friendly damage cannot be reduced."
    The bold part is what makes me think its enemy damage reduction because by the description of the power they are knocked off their guard ie lowered defenses.

    Knocked off their guard means stun.

    If that is how it works then two things.
    Its poorly worded and inconsistent because it would be implying that she is impacting both herself and her allies. But there is no mention of it in the initial description. For example Thanos is mentioned as a "volatile ally", Sentry "sacrifices" and Gambit "at all costs" etc. its stated that you are giving something up. There is no mention of that in this description. It should here because the repeater would be costing your team damage reduction from protect tiles, power damage reduction and match damage reduction while just stunning a random enemy when it goes off.
    This power becomes very poor in 5* world. Because the payoff here isn't worth firing this power and losing friendly damage reduction. It makes this poor not play well with Colossus, Wanda, BRB, Kitty etc. and then consider that if you are using Okoye or Apocalypse you are likely gonna want to fire those yellow powers the majority of the time then this power doesn't work with most of the meta.

  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2021
    dianetics said:
    BlackBoltRocks said:
    heybub said:

    Is Odin really that bad?
    No. He needs to be played they way he was designed: as a third wheel. Odin should never be the centrepiece of any team or built around (which is a shame, given that he’s one of the most powerful Marvel characters), but rather someone to absorb huge hits for you and buff his teammates to 5/5/5.
    The question should be, is he good? Right now he has no 5* dance partners. He has **** damage and generally speaking he just sits there and does nothing.
    Right now, he is not good.
    His powers don't really help his other powers like truly good characters do. His best partner are either 4*s or a toon that is color locked to him. Odin has no damage and until another 5* character comes out with fortify abilities to bolster Odin's jump Odin is going to be only a sponge sent out to die first.
    His red is **** and the separate components of his yellow are at odds with each other. His blue only works if there are fortified tiles on the board. For Odin to fortify he has to be in front so he can't reduce the damage.
    He needs a legit partner and heimdall is not it because they are color locked.
    I see Odin's potential with that yellow.  If conditions are met, he can negate all damage over 6k.  That is pretty powerful...if conditions are met.  He does self feed a bit, if he is in front, but it also means he takes a lot of damage up front and has to be in front.  I think you are correct in that if/when he gets a dance partner, he could be pretty good.  But I'm not in love with the cartoon artwork for him.

    The biggest problem I see with G5mora is she is random.  Nothing is really guaranteed nor under the users control, except for her red (which is decent).  If things hit, then she'll be good.  If not, she will be bad. 

    I really see her black similar to her 4* counterpart in that when it hits it is a nice bonus, but you can't count on it.  It will take at least 3 turns (with help) to meet the conditions and you still have to rely on the enemy to trigger.  It also doesn't make sense to have two of these out as they would need to target the same character or one of the CDs will expire, and hitting twice with the bonus damage I think will be unnecessary since they will be pretty much dead after one goes off (unless you are targeting 5* champed boosted characters?).  If there was some guaranteed damage/effect (creates an attack tile to help self feed maybe?) if it gets matched or goes off, then power would be pretty solid.

    She really isn't good enough to build a team around, and I don't see who she compliments in PVP.  She helps out in PVE as a third (BRB/Polaris/G5mora).

    I'm thinking I should have pulled for Electro/Odin/SC in that at least it doesn't include Nulltron (does someone have a better name for this guy?) and Electro has similar colors and is a unique character.  Another Gamora really isn't that exciting. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,061 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bad said:
    Well, the way I read her yellow, is that she has a powerful repeater dealing damage and stunning each 2 turns, and the tradeoff is that partners reducing damage cannot reduce friendly damage if she cast it.
    Friendly damage reduction, not enemy damage reduction. 
    While possible due to somewhat odd wording, I think it's extremely unlikely that her yellow power works this way.  If it turns off SW/Colossus/etc on your own team, Gamora is one of the very worst 5* characters. 

    I can't see them doing this.  The yellow power does a small amount of damage then creates a repeater that stuns for one turn.  There is no reason to put an additional downside on that.

    It is far, far more likely that the power turns off enemy SW/Colossus/etc, and here's the thing: *that is still not good enough to see regular play*.

    The reduction powers are on passives that are always on.  Gamora's power requires me to get to 7 yellow, cast it, and then protect an unfortified repeater tile.  It's just nowhere near the level of counter we need to address those kinds of powers.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    While possible due to somewhat odd wording, I think it's extremely unlikely that her yellow power works this way.  If it turns off SW/Colossus/etc on your own team, Gamora is one of the very worst 5* characters. 

    The reduction powers are on passives that are always on.  Gamora's power requires me to get to 7 yellow, cast it, and then protect an unfortified repeater tile.  It's just nowhere near the level of counter we need to address those kinds of powers.
    Stunning powers on 5* tier are a bit overrated. It's a repeater stunner with infinite stuns: I could see them doing that.
    I agree it's poorly worded and it doesn't clarify what it's friendly damage reduction and if it's in your team, in the enemy team, or both.
    If it was preventing enemy damage reduction she would be pretty meta.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I thought the wording is straightforward.

    Friendly always refers to players and enemy always refer to enemy. Read Shuri's blue power and it will be clear. Alternatively, ask yourself, when you fire Apocalypse's yellow power, does AI's power increase as well due to your Apocalypse's repeaters?

    If you want to know how power that affects both players and AI is worded, read 5* Thanos' purple power.

    The yellow repeater reminds me of a better version of Billy Club: put two or three on the board, timed correctly, and you get infinite stun.
  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    entrailbucket said:
    While possible due to somewhat odd wording, I think it's extremely unlikely that her yellow power works this way.  If it turns off SW/Colossus/etc on your own team, Gamora is one of the very worst 5* characters. 

    The reduction powers are on passives that are always on.  Gamora's power requires me to get to 7 yellow, cast it, and then protect an unfortified repeater tile.  It's just nowhere near the level of counter we need to address those kinds of powers.
    Stunning powers on 5* tier are a bit overrated. It's a repeater stunner with infinite stuns: I could see them doing that.
    I agree it's poorly worded and it doesn't clarify what it's friendly damage reduction and if it's in your team, in the enemy team, or both.
    If it was preventing enemy damage reduction she would be pretty meta.
    It looks like this is what it does.  Is she then Meta?  Who would you pair her with?
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    If she was preventing enemy damage reduction she could go with a hulkoye team as a third wheel, plus she has AoE power. 
    But I have some doubts she is going to do it with that wording.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,061 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I assume that's why that power is active, and yellow -- it'd be difficult (but not impossible, I guess) to run her with Okoye or Apocalypse.  It's also probably why her damage power is red.

    Unfortunately, this also means that she's bad.

    Edit: someone is going to say I'm being silly, and she's not bad, she's good for x thing, and of course they'll be right.

    What I'm saying is that Gamora is bad *in comparison to* her competition. 

    We can think about her yellow ability as another power booster, basically, which puts her in direct competition with Okoye, Apocalypse, and SW. 

    SW will remain the queen of boosting large single-target damage, which is a niche that's just not terribly useful.  Okoye's ability is always on and fed by her own yellow, so she's not a perfect match.

    But let's compare Gamora and Apocalypse.  For the same cost, Apocalypse creates *4* repeaters vs Gamora's 1, and the repeaters synergize with his black power. 

    There may be cases where Gamora's boost is better than his, and someone can do the math to figure that out, but vs any non-SW/Colossus/BRB team, Apocalypse is obviously better.  Even against those teams, Apocalypse *may* be better, depending on the circumstances, so why would I ever choose Gamora over him?
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,768 Chairperson of the Boards
    For the black power will it do damage if the CD goes down to 0 or will it only do damage if the CD is above 10 and the targeted enemy fires a power?  If it is the later it might only be good against really high health goons.  You will really need cascades or attack tiles to get that CD up to 10.  Plus with the time it takes you to get the CD up to 10 the enemy will probably be close to dead when you get the tile up to 10.

    I like her red in wave nodes, but I do wish they would not limit it to 3.  I also kind of like her yellow.  10K damage plus repeater stun, plus a counter to SW/Colossus.

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