***** Gamora (Deadliest Woman) *****

entrailbucket

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Bad said:

[...] 
In pick 3 she should be quite popular in a hulkoye team. 
Apocalypse cannot make a great use of her as both need yellow. 
[...]

Apocalypse only needs yellow the one time when I'm using him, but Okoye is constantly needing to fuel the yelllow furnace; am I doing it wrong, or are all y'all who say apocalypse competes for yellow doing it wrong?

Okoye shouldn't ever *need* yellow, she only needs TU.  Why does she need it?

ThaRoadWarrior

To stay alive and make team up actively when the board dries out. It always behooves her to be firing off her yellow as often as possible, whereas Apocalypse is a 1 and done power. Maybe things are different with a baby champ Okoye who doesn't tank much over newer characters than it is for people who have pumped theirs up a lot...

TheRiddler

HoundofShadow said:

To add on,

1) if you down character A with her black power, the countdown will switch to the next character that moves to the front. So, the black power won't target the character that was downed.

2) Her stun will stun invisible character because it stuns a random opponent.

3) I have tested her red or black power and match damage while her repeater were on the board and enemy protect tiles were out. It did ignore enemy protect tiles. So, I'm not sure what went wrong in your match.

It must be bugged for me then. I'm doing it right now and its doing the same thing over and over through multiple matches. They have two 49-strength protect tiles on the board. Repeater on the board.I have a green match showing 64 damage with Thanos so that match 3 should be 192 damage, right? I do the match and it shows 94 damage (98 less). Gamora with TU shows 116 damage so should be 348 damage but it does 250 (98 less).

The same thing with powers. Its showing in the power that her black does 2838 damage. I do the power and it shows 2740(98 less).

Yeah the black power will move to the next character if the initial damage kills them but if they are downed while its already on the board then it just goes away. So you need to check the damage on the target before you for it if you want that countdown to have a chance at going off.

The Red is also good for invisible characters.

entrailbucket

Yeah, that's a team construction issue.  She needs to tank all of her colors and probably one more, + TU.  

ThaRoadWarrior

entrailbucket said:

Yeah, that's a team construction issue.  She needs to tank all of her colors and probably one more, + TU.  

I mean, it is what it is, right? I do have a 5* RTF on her, so in PVE at least she tanks more.

Bad

Okoye's healing is secondary.
To negate damage reduction is primary playing gamora.
And for apoc is primary too so in pvp how do you collect 14 yellow? If you negate damage reduction but you don't get the boost what is apoc doing there? And same for red and black. A pair not really compatible.
If not playing against wanda and col perhaps then first should be shared strenght. But the color issue is still there.

I noticed some kind on buggy damage on matching 3 red, dealing 200 more damage than expected.

HoundofShadow

That's why you pair them with Thor to solve the problem. 

I wanted to upload video of how Gamora's repeater work but streamable requires account now.

ThaRoadWarrior

It's not impossible to collect 14 yellow in pick 2, and in pick-3 using Thor you're swimming in yellow. but that's neither here nor there I suppose.

entrailbucket

ThaRoadWarrior said:

entrailbucket said:

Yeah, that's a team construction issue.  She needs to tank all of her colors and probably one more, + TU.  

I mean, it is what it is, right? I do have a 5* RTF on her, so in PVE at least she tanks more.

The funny thing is that if she's used like you're using her, she's actually not overpowered at all.  She's barely even good.

If you squint, you can see the outline of a balanced character there.  The idea is that if you want her to boost powers, she has to match useless TU AP.  But in order to cast those powers, you have to have other characters match regular AP.  It's a tradeoff that limits her effectiveness significantly.

What makes her overpowered is pairing her with characters that either generate their own AP, or do damage passively, so there's no tradeoff at all. 

One might expect that the characters who generate their own AP or do damage passively would have bad powers, as a tradeoff for doing completely free stuff, but that's not how it works in practice, because nothing makes sense.

TheRiddler

Did they announce that they scaled that black power?

Because looking at it on the game its showing that it does 2894 damage and the countdown does 7594. The countdown doing 2.6x the damage.

But on the description here (at 450) it shows 7594 damage and the countdown does 30523 damage. The countdown doing 4x the damage.

Edit. I read it wrong. Its 11633 to 30523.

ThaRoadWarrior

entrailbucket said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

entrailbucket said:

Yeah, that's a team construction issue.  She needs to tank all of her colors and probably one more, + TU.  

I mean, it is what it is, right? I do have a 5* RTF on her, so in PVE at least she tanks more.

The funny thing is that if she's used like you're using her, she's actually not overpowered at all.  She's barely even good.

If you squint, you can see the outline of a balanced character there.  The idea is that if you want her to boost powers, she has to match useless TU AP.  But in order to cast those powers, you have to have other characters match regular AP.  It's a tradeoff that limits her effectiveness significantly.

What makes her overpowered is pairing her with characters that either generate their own AP, or do damage passively, so there's no tradeoff at all. 

One might expect that the characters who generate their own AP or do damage passively would have bad powers, as a tradeoff for doing completely free stuff, but that's not how it works in practice, because nothing makes sense.

I mean, I use her with Hulk or whoever like the rest of y'all, I just have to be a little more active about chasing yellow and team up. I don't use her that much in PVP ever since Wanda came out though. But I've foudn that Thor/Apocalypse was at least as fast on pick-2 nodes in PVE even though it's all active powers. 

heybub

Just played the first node of her introducing, and it did absolutely nothing to help me better understand her as a character.

These introducing events are a waste of my **** time.

entrailbucket

ThaRoadWarrior said:

entrailbucket said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

entrailbucket said:

Yeah, that's a team construction issue.  She needs to tank all of her colors and probably one more, + TU.  

I mean, it is what it is, right? I do have a 5* RTF on her, so in PVE at least she tanks more.

The funny thing is that if she's used like you're using her, she's actually not overpowered at all.  She's barely even good.

If you squint, you can see the outline of a balanced character there.  The idea is that if you want her to boost powers, she has to match useless TU AP.  But in order to cast those powers, you have to have other characters match regular AP.  It's a tradeoff that limits her effectiveness significantly.

What makes her overpowered is pairing her with characters that either generate their own AP, or do damage passively, so there's no tradeoff at all. 

One might expect that the characters who generate their own AP or do damage passively would have bad powers, as a tradeoff for doing completely free stuff, but that's not how it works in practice, because nothing makes sense.

I mean, I use her with Hulk or whoever like the rest of y'all, I just have to be a little more active about chasing yellow and team up. I don't use her that much in PVP ever since Wanda came out though. But I've foudn that Thor/Apocalypse was at least as fast on pick-2 nodes in PVE even though it's all active powers. 

To circle this back to Gamora, she's going to play pretty much just like Apocalypse does.  Her best partner is Thor because he'll feed her yellow and red and she can boost his green.

The difference is that Gamora's power boost is only a power boost against certain characters/powers, and her red/black powers are worse than Apocalypse in most cases.

Will Gamora/Thor be a reasonable counter to SW/Colossus?  Maybe on offense.  Someone can test it at some point.  On defense it'll be quite bad, because Thor is bad on defense, and Gamora conflicts with Thor for yellow and red.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

My first move in Introducing was a black Match 5, which killed Nova and Thanos finished the rest . So I never even got a chance to see any powers 

Tony_Foot

Changed my mind after seeing a few videos, will definitely wait for Gamora.

heybub

Tony_Foot said:

Changed my mind after seeing a few videos, will definitely wait for Gamora.

Where did you see the videos?

Thanos

Well, sadly, she's not so great on her own. Like I said before, her red is best used when there are two or less opponents. Her black is just garbage, of all the matches I played, I only got the bonus damage twice. It would have been better if once you hit the 10 counters it triggered, it's just too dang hard to trigger it otherwise. yellow is her best ability, too bad it's hard to keep the fricken repeater from getting destroyed. I don't get why they didn't fortify it, or at a bare minimum let you place it.

As far as teammates go, I think Scarlet Witch is her best partner in match two. I never paid attention to SW's purple before, it boosts damage based on how many of the chosen color you have, reading is fundamental! In choose three, I think cable isn't terrible cause he can fortify her yellow repeater with just a yellow match. Thor/Okoye works decent as well.

Overall, on her own, she's very mediocre, she really needs a damage booster to make her decent. If you have him, for the same color combo you're better off using Apoc. I know a lot of people want Shang-Chi, myself included, is one bad, one mediocre and one great 5* worth busting your hoard for? I'm really not sure, gonna have to wait and see what the next 5* has to offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GxQKPxR5wA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyOhexdAkaI

Tony_Foot

Now please try him with Shang. The clips I saw where with Shang and a 2* against apoc, sw and col. Sure Shang is impressive anyway but with her yellow she helped cut through those teams with little damage quickly.

I’m not saying she’s meta but she has a use against the meta so good enough for me.

HoundofShadow

Is Magneto the 2*? I remember seeing someone use 2* Magneto, 3* Mystique and 5* Shang-Chi to create winfinite. 

I hope tons of players pull for Gamora because she will be a common opponent with red as strongest colour.

DAZ0273

I don't think introducing events are ever that great to judge how good new 5's are although they at least stuck Lizard in this time so players could see the yellow in effect. Maybe we will get a wave node that might show off her red.