***** Gamora (Deadliest Woman) *****

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Comments

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 682 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2021
    I doubt her yellow does any damage when the repeater counts down.
    The ability states "Deals 1181 damage to the target and creates a 3-turn Yellow Repeater tile that stuns a random enemy for 1 turn when it activates."
    The damage is done first on cast, it is not related to the repeater at all. If it was the damage portion would not be first and having the repeater qualified with an "and".
    It is a DD skill that places a repeater that only stuns. It is still her best ability though.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 2,312 Chairperson of the Boards
    While possible due to somewhat odd wording, I think it's extremely unlikely that her yellow power works this way.  If it turns off SW/Colossus/etc on your own team, Gamora is one of the very worst 5* characters. 

    The reduction powers are on passives that are always on.  Gamora's power requires me to get to 7 yellow, cast it, and then protect an unfortified repeater tile.  It's just nowhere near the level of counter we need to address those kinds of powers.
    Stunning powers on 5* tier are a bit overrated. It's a repeater stunner with infinite stuns: I could see them doing that.
    I agree it's poorly worded and it doesn't clarify what it's friendly damage reduction and if it's in your team, in the enemy team, or both.
    If it was preventing enemy damage reduction she would be pretty meta.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 682 Critical Contributor
    It clearly states "While this tile is on the board, friendly damage cannot be reduced". It will pierce all damage reduction whether it is from protect tiles or abilities. It only affects your teams damage.
    Protecting the tile will be the biggest problem.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 7,129 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I thought the wording is straightforward.

    Friendly always refers to players and enemy always refer to enemy. Read Shuri's blue power and it will be clear. Alternatively, ask yourself, when you fire Apocalypse's yellow power, does AI's power increase as well due to your Apocalypse's repeaters?

    If you want to know how power that affects both players and AI is worded, read 5* Thanos' purple power.

    The yellow repeater reminds me of a better version of Billy Club: put two or three on the board, timed correctly, and you get infinite stun.
  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    While possible due to somewhat odd wording, I think it's extremely unlikely that her yellow power works this way.  If it turns off SW/Colossus/etc on your own team, Gamora is one of the very worst 5* characters. 

    The reduction powers are on passives that are always on.  Gamora's power requires me to get to 7 yellow, cast it, and then protect an unfortified repeater tile.  It's just nowhere near the level of counter we need to address those kinds of powers.
    Stunning powers on 5* tier are a bit overrated. It's a repeater stunner with infinite stuns: I could see them doing that.
    I agree it's poorly worded and it doesn't clarify what it's friendly damage reduction and if it's in your team, in the enemy team, or both.
    If it was preventing enemy damage reduction she would be pretty meta.
    It looks like this is what it does.  Is she then Meta?  Who would you pair her with?
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 682 Critical Contributor
    She is not meta, but certainly useable against certain teams
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 2,312 Chairperson of the Boards
    If she was preventing enemy damage reduction she could go with a hulkoye team as a third wheel, plus she has AoE power. 
    But I have some doubts she is going to do it with that wording.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 682 Critical Contributor
    She has no damage prevention at all.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I assume that's why that power is active, and yellow -- it'd be difficult (but not impossible, I guess) to run her with Okoye or Apocalypse.  It's also probably why her damage power is red.

    Unfortunately, this also means that she's bad.

    Edit: someone is going to say I'm being silly, and she's not bad, she's good for x thing, and of course they'll be right.

    What I'm saying is that Gamora is bad *in comparison to* her competition. 

    We can think about her yellow ability as another power booster, basically, which puts her in direct competition with Okoye, Apocalypse, and SW. 

    SW will remain the queen of boosting large single-target damage, which is a niche that's just not terribly useful.  Okoye's ability is always on and fed by her own yellow, so she's not a perfect match.

    But let's compare Gamora and Apocalypse.  For the same cost, Apocalypse creates *4* repeaters vs Gamora's 1, and the repeaters synergize with his black power. 

    There may be cases where Gamora's boost is better than his, and someone can do the math to figure that out, but vs any non-SW/Colossus/BRB team, Apocalypse is obviously better.  Even against those teams, Apocalypse *may* be better, depending on the circumstances, so why would I ever choose Gamora over him?
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    For the black power will it do damage if the CD goes down to 0 or will it only do damage if the CD is above 10 and the targeted enemy fires a power?  If it is the later it might only be good against really high health goons.  You will really need cascades or attack tiles to get that CD up to 10.  Plus with the time it takes you to get the CD up to 10 the enemy will probably be close to dead when you get the tile up to 10.

    I like her red in wave nodes, but I do wish they would not limit it to 3.  I also kind of like her yellow.  10K damage plus repeater stun, plus a counter to SW/Colossus.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime said:
    For the black power will it do damage if the CD goes down to 0 or will it only do damage if the CD is above 10 and the targeted enemy fires a power?  If it is the later it might only be good against really high health goons.  You will really need cascades or attack tiles to get that CD up to 10.  Plus with the time it takes you to get the CD up to 10 the enemy will probably be close to dead when you get the tile up to 10.

    I like her red in wave nodes, but I do wish they would not limit it to 3.  I also kind of like her yellow.  10K damage plus repeater stun, plus a counter to SW/Colossus.
    It only does the "bonus damage" if the count is over 10 *and* the targeted enemy casts an active power.  Also, it's a countdown, so it'll tick down at the beginning of every turn.

    It's probably decent against goons but it seems quite bad for PvP/against tile movers.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 8,071 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’d say you could likely hit 10x with Shang-Chi on player turn, but by then whoever you are up against will probably already be dead
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 7,129 Chairperson of the Boards
    And it's really good against the last enemy who has full health of a mission. It seems like both attacks, from a pvp pov, is great against the last enemy. Sending the Deadliest Woman to deal with goons is probably too easy for her.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    And it's really good against the last enemy who has full health of a mission. It seems like both attacks, from a pvp pov, is great against the last enemy. Sending the Deadliest Woman to deal with goons is probably too easy for her.
    You'd need to damage them at least twice per turn for 3 turns to outrun the countdown, and then hope they cast an active power.  I just don't think it's terribly reliable, since nobody really casts stuff anymore.

    That said, it only costs 6, and it does do damage in addition to placing the countdown.  I would consider the power to just be "x damage for 6 black," and treat the bonus damage as just that -- an unlikely, but nice bonus.
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    I honestly think the initial (or final) thought from the devs with Gamora’s black was (is?) to make the passive part of the black deal the big damage when Gamora IS DAMAGED instead of “when a power is fired”. But they’re still trying to see if making it do that big damage if she’s merely damaged is too OP.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 2,312 Chairperson of the Boards
    Her black could be good playing polaris as the enemy can be multiple damaged per turn. I think it's a funny power, it's a good damage for 6AP and you will try to build the nuclear bomb.
    Gamora shares all the colors with apoc and okoye. Okoye is not so relevant as her powers are kind of obsolete but apoc is another thing.
    Her yellow repeaters can be funny too but she is not going to be fast.
    If building a team for her it should be used fortifying characters first.
    After that maybe okoye. Perhaps a funny team taking advantage on fortifying repeaters could be gamora ronan and perhaps GG, Heimdall, odin, cable.
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    I haven't been on the forum in a while and I come back to this interesting character. First, I like her. I wish it were the Requiem version of Gamora, but the game crossover is really cool (even if it feels more like a Marvel demand rather than a MPQ gesture).

    The balancing statement on her Black power leads me to believe that this was a rushed job and devs were pressed to stay on schedule. Depending on the release of this character in the MGotG game this makes sense. Releasing this character next month would have been too late and releasing it earlier likely wasn't possible because the character didn't exist.

    As for her damage reduction to "friendly damage," I remember seeing similar wording somewhere. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it, but the "friendly" referred to the enemy team rather than my team. I only remember it because I thought the wording was weird and spent the entire match annoyed over it. I forgot about it until now.

    Nonetheless, it could be meant to make her better in that she prevents the enemy from reducing damage. This makes her amazing against damage reducers like Blob, Juggernaut, Colossus, etc. On the other hand, it could be meant to balance her out by preventing her own teammates from reducing damage. This makes her a horrible partner for the aforementioned characters if this power is fired. Either way, we won't know until her release.

    As I said, I like her so I'll pull for a cover when she hits the store just to get her rostered and depending on what the next 1-2 5* characters look like, I will try for 13 covers.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime said:
    For the black power will it do damage if the CD goes down to 0 or will it only do damage if the CD is above 10 and the targeted enemy fires a power?  If it is the later it might only be good against really high health goons.  You will really need cascades or attack tiles to get that CD up to 10.  Plus with the time it takes you to get the CD up to 10 the enemy will probably be close to dead when you get the tile up to 10.

    I like her red in wave nodes, but I do wish they would not limit it to 3.  I also kind of like her yellow.  10K damage plus repeater stun, plus a counter to SW/Colossus.
    It only does the "bonus damage" if the count is over 10 *and* the targeted enemy casts an active power.  Also, it's a countdown, so it'll tick down at the beginning of every turn.

    It's probably decent against goons but it seems quite bad for PvP/against tile movers.
    Yea overall I think it will only be good against really high level goons when she is essential when goons health are closer to 200k.  The biggest problem is since you are consistently doing damage to the character it will whittle down that characters health making the bonus damage possibly negligible.  I think I would have rather had a higher CD and every time the targeted enemy took damage the CD would go down.  When the CD hit 0 it would do the bonus damage.  
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 682 Critical Contributor
    I do not see g5mora as a pve character. She is a pencil in for certain teams in pvp...like any col5/wanda team.
    Personally in the PvE stance there are a lot of 4*s I would rather take than her. In PvP as a third she will do well against the newest characters.
  • Thanos
    Thanos Posts: 722 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2021
    I think she's solid but her damage is on the low side.
    Red: Best used with two or fewer opponents left, 10k AoE is laughable in a world of 100k+ health pools.
    Black: Wish they'd mimic 4* Gamora here and make the CD down the opponent. All that work meeting the CD's conditions should give a bigger payday. Also, because the initial damage is so low, it would be nice if she also made some beefy strike tiles, that would help raise her overall damage.
    Yellow: Probably her best power, I'd almost prefer they dropped the damage, priced it at 5ap and fortified the repeater instead. If they insist on keeping the damage, they could at least put the repeater out first, then do the damage.
    Just my two cents.