Daredevil217 said: You all know that when people say “wasted” no one actually thinks they disappear right? It’s shorthand/forum slang. Like “feeders” are actually “update to champion rewards”, PVE is actually “story mode” and “pink” is actually “purple”. I think everyone knows what people mean when they say it and are purposely focusing on getting bogged down in semantics in order to say “you’re wrong they’re not wasted!”, and we have the same circular arguments. If people want to adopt a better term, fine. But until then I will keep using the common forum slang.
MadScientist said: Elite Tokens and Heroic Tokens yield more extra covers under the new system, Legendary Tokens less:Elite Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 80 tokens you open (1:4 to get a 3-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 23.3 tokens you open (300 shards / 13 shards gained).Winner: Target HeroesHeroic Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 100 tokens you open (1:5 to get a 3-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero) and an extra 4-star covery every 320 tokens you open (1:16 to get a 4-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 30 tokens you open (300 shards / 10 shards gained) and an extra 4-star cover every 133.3 tokens you open (400 shards / 3 shards gained).Winner: Target HeroesLegendary Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 4-star cover every 23.5 tokens you open (17:20 to get a 4-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero) and an extra 5-star cover every 133.3 tokens you open (3:20 to get a 5-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 4-star cover every 26.7 tokens you open (400 shards / 15 shards gained) and an extra 5-star cover every 167.7 tokens you open (500 shard / 3 shards gained).Winner: Bonus HeroesTherefore, any player who gains "100 Heroic Tokens per week" should love target heroes.
Vhailorx said:And shards is actually pretty bad for 5*s. Without careful planning, and a restriction to pulling only latest tokens, it is impossible to avoid "stranded shards." (I like the term "stranded" more than "wasted" because it denotes the opportunity cost, rather than lost value. The shards don't disappear, they just become much less useful). Imagine collecting 350 shards for a meta classic 5* that yoi want to finish and champ, and then pulling the cover you needed from a classic token. Sure, you have the character champed, but your 350 shards are just sitting there now, doing nothing for you. It's a substantial opportunity cost and makes shards much worse for those trying to build 5* benches or cover new 5*s.
broll said: Vhailorx said:And shards is actually pretty bad for 5*s. Without careful planning, and a restriction to pulling only latest tokens, it is impossible to avoid "stranded shards." (I like the term "stranded" more than "wasted" because it denotes the opportunity cost, rather than lost value. The shards don't disappear, they just become much less useful). Imagine collecting 350 shards for a meta classic 5* that yoi want to finish and champ, and then pulling the cover you needed from a classic token. Sure, you have the character champed, but your 350 shards are just sitting there now, doing nothing for you. It's a substantial opportunity cost and makes shards much worse for those trying to build 5* benches or cover new 5*s. My suspicion / hope is that they undercut 5*s slightly because another piece of this system that hasn't been introduced is offering 5* shards as PvE and PvP rewards, which would be a huge boon depending on how it's implemented. IF that happens, all 5*s will end up with "stranded" shards that will eventually pay off in the long run even if the characters aren't favorited.
HoundofShadow said: I think the dev mentioned something about putting 5* shards as rewards, based on my memory. They can't give players a full cover 5*, but they can give shards of 5*
Jormagund said: MadScientist said: Elite Tokens and Heroic Tokens yield more extra covers under the new system, Legendary Tokens less:Elite Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 80 tokens you open (1:4 to get a 3-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 23.3 tokens you open (300 shards / 13 shards gained).Winner: Target HeroesHeroic Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 100 tokens you open (1:5 to get a 3-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero) and an extra 4-star covery every 320 tokens you open (1:16 to get a 4-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 3-star cover every 30 tokens you open (300 shards / 10 shards gained) and an extra 4-star cover every 133.3 tokens you open (400 shards / 3 shards gained).Winner: Target HeroesLegendary Tokens:With Bonus Heroes, you get an extra 4-star cover every 23.5 tokens you open (17:20 to get a 4-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero) and an extra 5-star cover every 133.3 tokens you open (3:20 to get a 5-star cover and 1:20 to get a bonus hero).With Target Heroes, you get an extra 4-star cover every 26.7 tokens you open (400 shards / 15 shards gained) and an extra 5-star cover every 167.7 tokens you open (500 shard / 3 shards gained).Winner: Bonus HeroesTherefore, any player who gains "100 Heroic Tokens per week" should love target heroes. Unfortunately the basic premise is wrong? For both elite and heroic tokens the pull rate was 1 BH in 20 token draws not 1 BH per 20 eligible draws.Therefore for elites you are left with a 3*BH approximately every 20 draws. 20 heroic pulls would on average also award a BH with a 16/21 chance of it being a 3* and a 5/21 chance of it being a 4*. Note: this does assume no weighting other than the stated odds in favour of either 3 or 4* BHs.
Anthony, Demiurge wrote:Let's take the Heroic Pack. You have a ~71% chance to get a 2-Star, a ~23% chance to get a 3-Star and a ~6% chance to get a 4-Star. When you open a pack, you have an overall 5% chance to get a Bonus Hero. The way we get to that math is to set the chance to get a Bonus Hero per rarity that you draw. When you draw a 3-Star or 4-Star, you have roughly a 17% chance to get a Bonus Hero. When you multiply the chance to get a cover of that rarity with the chance to get a Bonus Hero, you get the [percent] chance to get a Bonus Hero from any one pull from a Heroic pack (~4% for 3-Stars and ~1% for 4-Stars).
LavaManLee said: That's really the bottom line. Whether others think I am right or wrong for doing it, in the current system it is to my benefit not to open any tokens that give 4* shards until Rahne is available. And D3 is losing on my not spending HP over many days. It may not mean anything to the bottom line but if enough of us are like this, maybe it will matter.
Daredevil217 said: For me personally, bonus heroes were in many ways a true bonus. The fact that they were complete items and not progress broken into tiny pieces is meaningful to me. The fact is that we as a player base are getting less covers as a whole. There is also the possibility that you target someone and get halfway there, only to get what you need by other means and have to choose whether to abandon progress. The increased rarity of TH, the increased micromanaging and monetization, as well as the the possibility of having to “abandon progress” has me hoarding everything. WB and MDK are each at 8 covers. I’ll hoard in the event I need covers for ST. If I get them to ten before they’re up (very possible) I’ll probably keep hoarding. And hoarding. Until I get the 1,068 heroic pulls I need to get my next Hawkeye cover from Kate Bishop. Basically the tokens are just sitting there stockpiling in case I “need” a cover. Never had so many expired stores to scroll through! People can say what they want about the OP and question the utility, but the OP is definitely not alone! The game is for sure less fun for me under shards, but this is the new optimal strategy in my opinion.
Phumade said: Daredevil217 said: For me personally, bonus heroes were in many ways a true bonus. The fact that they were complete items and not progress broken into tiny pieces is meaningful to me. The fact is that we as a player base are getting less covers as a whole. There is also the possibility that you target someone and get halfway there, only to get what you need by other means and have to choose whether to abandon progress. The increased rarity of TH, the increased micromanaging and monetization, as well as the the possibility of having to “abandon progress” has me hoarding everything. WB and MDK are each at 8 covers. I’ll hoard in the event I need covers for ST. If I get them to ten before they’re up (very possible) I’ll probably keep hoarding. And hoarding. Until I get the 1,068 heroic pulls I need to get my next Hawkeye cover from Kate Bishop. Basically the tokens are just sitting there stockpiling in case I “need” a cover. Never had so many expired stores to scroll through! People can say what they want about the OP and question the utility, but the OP is definitely not alone! The game is for sure less fun for me under shards, but this is the new optimal strategy in my opinion. So how long does it take you to earn 1068 heroics? With a full farm set, those stds and elites are reliably unlocking extra heroics from reward trees. You can probably do that in under a week. As a practical matter, we don’t need to talk about drop rates. Just say it takes me. X number of days to unlock a colorless 3/4/5* char is that good progress or bad progress.?hoard or don’t hoard, if you can earn 1068 pulls in 7 days from your farm then what does it really matter? Hoard as it was coined in mpq was in month long time frames. Anything that can be accomplished in under two week of play is no harder than when you had 2 weeks to apply a cover or see them die.
Daredevil217 said: Phumade said: Daredevil217 said: For me personally, bonus heroes were in many ways a true bonus. The fact that they were complete items and not progress broken into tiny pieces is meaningful to me. The fact is that we as a player base are getting less covers as a whole. There is also the possibility that you target someone and get halfway there, only to get what you need by other means and have to choose whether to abandon progress. The increased rarity of TH, the increased micromanaging and monetization, as well as the the possibility of having to “abandon progress” has me hoarding everything. WB and MDK are each at 8 covers. I’ll hoard in the event I need covers for ST. If I get them to ten before they’re up (very possible) I’ll probably keep hoarding. And hoarding. Until I get the 1,068 heroic pulls I need to get my next Hawkeye cover from Kate Bishop. Basically the tokens are just sitting there stockpiling in case I “need” a cover. Never had so many expired stores to scroll through! People can say what they want about the OP and question the utility, but the OP is definitely not alone! The game is for sure less fun for me under shards, but this is the new optimal strategy in my opinion. So how long does it take you to earn 1068 heroics? With a full farm set, those stds and elites are reliably unlocking extra heroics from reward trees. You can probably do that in under a week. As a practical matter, we don’t need to talk about drop rates. Just say it takes me. X number of days to unlock a colorless 3/4/5* char is that good progress or bad progress.?hoard or don’t hoard, if you can earn 1068 pulls in 7 days from your farm then what does it really matter? Hoard as it was coined in mpq was in month long time frames. Anything that can be accomplished in under two week of play is no harder than when you had 2 weeks to apply a cover or see them die. 2 weeks is pretty amazing. I’ve been hoarding since before this feature hit. Maybe a little after it was announced? And am currently at 215 heroics lol.