**** Hawkeye (Ronin) ****

24

Comments

  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 433 Mover and Shaker
    edited 30 April 2019, 17:44
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Yes, they are the same person. People in the know will correct me I'm sure, but Clint's story from comics (movies are a bit different) is something like:
    - abusive drunk dad
    - parents die, kids get shipped to orphanage 
    - kids run away to join the circus
    - here Clint becomes the Amazing Hawkeye, trains archery with Trickshot and learns the art of the sword from the Swordsman.
    -  Clint is betrayed by above mentioned thieving... ahem... bad guys. Is out of the circus.
    - clint becomes an assasin for hire (but only takes on killing bad people who deserve it), and goes by the name Ronin (and wields a sword) in these dark times. (I think its during this time he first meets Widow).
    - he resurfaces into the light as Hawkeye again (and arrows again) when he gets recruited by SHIELD/joins the Avengers. He becomes good friends with Cap.

    Anyway Clint is both Hawkeye and Ronin. You may want to better google his story arc if you're interested, my outline doesnt do him justice at all :)

  • YepyepYepyep Posts: 650 Critical Contributor
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Yes, they are the same person. People in the know will correct me I'm sure, but Clint's story from comics (movies are a bit different) is something like:
    - abusive drunk dad
    - parents die, kids get shipped to orphanage 
    - kids run away to join the circus
    - here Clint becomes the Amazing Hawkeye, trains archery with Trickshot and learns the art of the sword from the Swordsman.
    -  Clint is betrayed by above mentioned thieving... ahem... bad guys. Is out of the circus.
    - clint becomes an assasin for hire (but only takes on killing bad people who deserve it), and goes by the name Ronin (and wields a sword) in these dark times. (I think its during this time he first meets Widow).
    - he resurfaces into the light as Hawkeye again (and arrows again) when he gets recruited by SHIELD/joins the Avengers. He becomes good friends with Cap.

    Anyway Clint is both Hawkeye and Ronin. You may want to better google his story arc if you're interested, my outline doesnt do him justice at all :)

    OK, thanks @Ed_Dragonrider. You set me on the right path -- I did look it up and the baddie I was thinking of was Ronan the Accuser...  Obviously, I was quite baffled! Lol
  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 433 Mover and Shaker
    Yepyep said:

    Heh, yeah thats Lee Pace :)

    I found this for you:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hawkeye

    Back in the day i read some sort of summary similar to the link above, liked it a lot and started reading whatever Hawkeye comics i could find. It was very out of order, but i sort of fitted it into the summary timeline.
    Then i found fanfiction and now i dont even know whats cannon and whats fannon, whats MCU and whats comics, its all just a jumble in my head. :)
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 30 April 2019, 19:32
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Hawkeye is Ronin in Endgame (and was in the comic books too). I think you might be confusing him with Ronan (the Accuser) the bad guy from Guardians of the Galaxy.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just to confuse @Yepyep more, Hawkeye was also Goliath who Was also Hank Pym who Was also a bad guy who used to be Power Man but wasn't Luke Cage... 

    Don't even start with the origin of Vision in the comic books...or actually Wanda and Quicksilver...
  • Waddles_PinesWaddles_Pines Posts: 722 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    Just to confuse @Yepyep more, Hawkeye was also Goliath who Was also Hank Pym who Was also a bad guy who used to be Power Man but wasn't Luke Cage... 

    Don't even start with the origin of Vision in the comic books...or actually Wanda and Quicksilver...
    Vision? you mean Wonder Man, right ;)

    Also, Ronin was originally another super hero Echo.  Hawkeye took up the mantle when he joined the secret ops team of Avengers (Secret Avengers) after he was resurrected (nobody stays dead ;)).

    And Goliath was killed by Ragnarok, but not the Hank Pym version... yeah, that's comics for you :)
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Just to confuse @Yepyep more, Hawkeye was also Goliath who Was also Hank Pym who Was also a bad guy who used to be Power Man but wasn't Luke Cage... 

    Don't even start with the origin of Vision in the comic books...or actually Wanda and Quicksilver...
    Vision? you mean Wonder Man, right ;)

    Also, Ronin was originally another super hero Echo.  Hawkeye took up the mantle when he joined the secret ops team of Avengers (Secret Avengers) after he was resurrected (nobody stays dead ;)).

    And Goliath was killed by Ragnarok, but not the Hank Pym version... yeah, that's comics for you :)
    Wonder Man + Human Torch but not Johnny Storm but then actually not Human Torch but his spare parts but wait...oh for snikt sake COMIC BOOKS Arghhhhhhh!!!!!!! 

    Yes, Echo...thank you Brian Bendis...or was it David Mack?

    I didn't want to confuse anybody any further by mentioning another Goliath...even a dead one...
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ronin looks quite cool. Makes me even sadder about that Magik Shield Training malarkey.
  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 433 Mover and Shaker
    DAZ0273 said:
    Ronin looks quite cool. Makes me even sadder about that Magik Shield Training malarkey.
    If they wanted to be generous, for the celebrations, they could just run a Growth Industry, with Ronin as end prize.


    I dont have a lot of reference points yet for these tie-ins and big celebrations, but i was here for the Ant-Man & Wasp tie-in last year. I had a few 3*s champed by then, but not all rostered, let alone the 4*s. Im not sure i was even eligible to play scl7 yet or not, but ST was definitely out of the question (as is the case to this day... and many future ones still).
     Being given a chance to earn those 4* covers was amazing, but best of all was the fact that we got to do so, for a brand new character!! (Ghost) Can you imagine? A lowly little barely-3*roster player like me, getting the new 4*? Wow, that was special and worth celebrating for sure! :smiley:

    I remember how hard i worked for that cover too. More than once i flatlined on one node or other, but i got it and victory never felt sweeter. And for once i finally had the 4e for the next event! :open_mouth:
    More than anything this was what made me feel included in the celebrations. At that stage its very hard to get excited about 5*feeders and the like, those were only for vets not me. But being given chances to earn things i would otherwise not be able to? And that it wasnt just for the big rosters, i could do it too? Special indeed!

    Cinema Showdown is great, and im glad they are running it and with the loaners, lower rosters get a chance at earning all those wonderful covers too. Im glad for that i truly am.

    But would it really break the bank, if we got to earn a cover for such a celebration character too? A special out of turn chance, not just the usuals?And not just the whales who can do ST, but anyone who works hard enough with their rosters, no matter how low those might be?

    If there is anything im kinda bummed about, its this. I had hoped that a celebration to such a big and all-encompassing film would give us a lot more opportunities, not just for the big vets, but for the mid and lower rosters too. 

    Its still not too late... How about it devs? Give us a special chance to earn a cover?
  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,440 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Yes, they are the same person. People in the know will correct me I'm sure, but Clint's story from comics (movies are a bit different) is something like:
    - abusive drunk dad
    - parents die, kids get shipped to orphanage 
    - kids run away to join the circus
    - here Clint becomes the Amazing Hawkeye, trains archery with Trickshot and learns the art of the sword from the Swordsman.
    -  Clint is betrayed by above mentioned thieving... ahem... bad guys. Is out of the circus.
    - clint becomes an assasin for hire (but only takes on killing bad people who deserve it), and goes by the name Ronin (and wields a sword) in these dark times. (I think its during this time he first meets Widow).
    - he resurfaces into the light as Hawkeye again (and arrows again) when he gets recruited by SHIELD/joins the Avengers. He becomes good friends with Cap.

    Anyway Clint is both Hawkeye and Ronin. You may want to better google his story arc if you're interested, my outline doesnt do him justice at all :)

    It's much weirder than that: he became Ronin long after joining the Avengers.
    Scarlet Witch had a mental breakdown and tried to kill off the Avengers.  Among other things, she used her reality altering powers to conjure up a Kree warship that killed Clint.  No one actually realised that the Wanda was behind all of this.
    After his death, the Young Avengers were formed, with Kate Bishop taking on the name Hawkeye and using his bow to honour Clint.
    The remaining Avengers eventually realise Wanda was behind the original attack, but when they catch up to her Quicksilver has managed to convince her to alter reality again so that Magneto rules the world with humans subservient to mutants (the "House of M" event).  In this new reality, Clint is alive and working for the human resistance.  When things eventually get reset again, Clint is still alive.
    He confronts Kate to retrieve his bow, but in the end decides to let her keep both it and the Hawkeye name.
    Clint then took on the Ronin costume and identity.  But he wasn't the first to use it: while he was dead, there was another person using that name and costume: a deaf martial artist Maya Lopez.
    Clint eventually switched back to using the Hawkeye name, deciding that he could share it with Kate.  A bunch of other people have used the Ronin costume since then.
    Comics are weird.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,408 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/3/5
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Endgame is the first on-screen depiction of Ronin.....other than in a show called Marvel Disk Wars:  The Avengers, and in various video games where he's always been a hero.

    In the comics, Ronin has mostly been a hero, although various people have worn the costume.  There was a time when someone was wearing the costume and people didn't know who it was.  Apparently the intent at that time was for it to be Daredevil who had left New York, but then they changed it to be Hawkeye (theories for why vary; one is that the readers guessed it was DD so Brian Michael Bendis changed it to Clint to maintain the surprise element).  There was a person using the Ronin costume that was assassinating spies and fought Mockingbird and Black Widow who was a villain (maybe they are still active in the comics).
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    Yepyep said:
    I’m a little confused by the “Hawkeye (Ronin)” designation. Is there a relationship in comics between Hawkeye and Ronin? Or is this just an easy way to make Ronin a good guy/hero? (I think of Ronin as a baddie/villain, but I only know him from films — and I haven’t seen Endgame). 

    Edited to say the character looks pretty good. But the purple stun+damage needs some transferability, a la Dr. Strange, as others have mentioned. Especially for the fairly high, 11 AP price.

    Cool art, once again!
    Endgame is the first on-screen depiction of Ronin.....other than in a show called Marvel Disk Wars:  The Avengers, and in various video games where he's always been a hero.

    In the comics, Ronin has mostly been a hero, although various people have worn the costume.  There was a time when someone was wearing the costume and people didn't know who it was.  Apparently the intent at that time was for it to be Daredevil who had left New York, but then they changed it to be Hawkeye (theories for why vary; one is that the readers guessed it was DD so Brian Michael Bendis changed it to Clint to maintain the surprise element).  There was a person using the Ronin costume that was assassinating spies and fought Mockingbird and Black Widow who was a villain (maybe they are still active in the comics).
    When New Avengers #1 was first announced, the following image was used to promote the new team:



    If you look at the (then) mystery character bottom left who turned out to be Ronin it isn't hard to see why fans quickly decided that he was Daredevil in disguise as his nunchuks weren't really too far removed from DD's Billy Clubs. By the time Ronin appeared he had undergone a change in signature weaponary:


  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/5/3
    In the comics, Clint was the 2nd Ronin, here is a little more info:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_(Marvel_Comics)
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,373 Chairperson of the Boards
    Reecoh said:
    jamesh said:

    Comics are weird.
    A girlfriend of a fellow comics collector back in the day said comics were soap operas for dudes.

    This is particularly true of X-Men. Before he left the book John Byrne once said if not for him then every issue would have been them hanging out in Cyclops apartment drinking coffee and discussing their love life's as Claremont hated action/fight scenes!
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 273 Mover and Shaker
    I really think you will want 5 covers in green. This will often be played as the finishing blow on an opponent you have reduced to 3800 health, thus making this ability deal 7600+ damage overall for just 6 AP (since the second hit will be guaranteed). 

    Disabling blow would be better at a 10 AP cost, but I can see the setup here. At 5 covers versus most non-boosted 4* characters, Ronin's purple will take around 2/3 of their health, and stun them while you gather more green for another finishing blow from his green. This plan will again qualify the 2nd free hit on the next enemy etc.

    His red would be great at higher than 3 but I don't know how often you should be reducing his direct damage abilities. Brutal Technique almost reads as though once you have 5 attack tiles he continues to buff their damage each turn. I imagine that it requires further red matches to increase the attack tile damage, but I would love to be wrong.
  • Agent262Agent262 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Does anyone know if Okoye will work with No Escape?  Specifically, if No escape does say 4K damage, and Okoye adds on 6K damage, if the enemy has 7K health will it trigger doing damage to another enemy, or not because it wasn't the No Escape part of the damage that downed the enemy?
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,392 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think Wakanda Forever! damage counts as being distinct from the power it's added to, i'd expect it gets added to the damage at every step in the chain.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    Agent262 said:
    Does anyone know if Okoye will work with No Escape?  Specifically, if No escape does say 4K damage, and Okoye adds on 6K damage, if the enemy has 7K health will it trigger doing damage to another enemy, or not because it wasn't the No Escape part of the damage that downed the enemy?
    I would expect wakanda forever to work on all ticks of no escape (kinda like hela's green).
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