Supports seem a bit useless (general discussion)

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Comments

  • jtsingsjtsings Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
       I think the biggest use for supports, besides PVE (especially for newer rosters) could be the Crash of the Titans.   I know that the Pocket Radio support has already been mentioned; but this support alone can pretty much match damage your way through many opponents even without many useful powers (at level 150 it adds 247 match damage to Red and Green).  Point in case: Drax's purple has been one of my white whales in the game but my level 150 5/1/5 Drax just crushed Thanos in the Crash this morning with this support attached.  True, Thanos is not an offensive overpowered juggernaut but I did over 8k damage in match damage alone, without a match damage boost.

       I think supports weren't as helpful at first, because it wasn't easy to get them; so if you can't get them they're not helpful/useful.  However, now that they are at least a little bit more available, some of them can be pretty helpful to some players; but apparently not to all.  And just like some characters are more useful than others in the game, there are some supports that just don't add a lot to game play but there are at least a few that can make a pretty significant difference in someone's PVE/overall play.
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 718 Critical Contributor
    Lystrata said:
    broll said:
    SUPPORTS - so... I don't understand. Only ppl with great rosters and resources can get high level supports. But supports are useless to those players... I mean... They only are used in pve and those players need zero help in that part of the game... Am I missing something here?
    Nope, it's a poorly conceived and broken system that's not worth you wasting time on. Focus on the games actual bread and butter which is character rostering/leveling/champing. If you get one use if you want, but trying to chase them has a 95% chance of just frustrating you. Unless you roster is maxed up it's not worth it IMO.

    This is both accurate and ridiculous.

    The system was (arguably still is) most definitely 'broken' on implementation. The way they initially made obtaining supports and progressing them was absurd, and got a lot of backlash. Which, in my view, is what accounts for much of the lingering 'bad taste' people have about supports. They have been trying to improve on that though (not perfectly imo, but it's getting there). So yeah. On comments regarding 'the system' - accurate.

    Supports themselves, if you get something decent (and by decent I mean gels well with a particular character - it doesn't actually have to be high level) can have a noticeable effect on game play. So to tell someone outright supports are 'not worth wasting time on' - ridiculous.

    You only have to read the suggestions people have already made for which support to equip to which characters to see how they can synergise and speed things up. I know corvus glave has sped PvE up for me numerous times, and you only need level 1 of that*. Supports that have a chance of giving free AP at the start of battles have also helped me significantly. Fortifying special tiles is also useful, though not really game-changing. Etc.

    Yeah, trying to chase a particular support will be crazy frustrating, but supports in and of themselves are actually quite useful (on both my 5* roster and my 2*-3* roster). 

    --

    * Bolded for OPs benefit - you seem to think only high level supports are useful. Not strictly true. :smile:
    Sure, supports are fine, if you can get them.  until there is a way to guarantee what supports to get, we will still be stuck in this loop.  some people claim that they are good and useful, and point to a handful out of the 4 dozen.  then i ask how do i get these, and the answers are always the same: luck.  back and forth. 

    you are able to separate supports from their availability, presumably because you lucked into one of them.  I cannot.  getting supports and having supports are the same thing for me right now, because i cannot get the same good ones as you.  until they put them in progression, or as *attainable* rewards, etc., I will have to agree with broll that concentrating on them is kind of ridiculous.
  • BowgentleBowgentle Posts: 5,038 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lystrata said:
    broll said:
    SUPPORTS - so... I don't understand. Only ppl with great rosters and resources can get high level supports. But supports are useless to those players... I mean... They only are used in pve and those players need zero help in that part of the game... Am I missing something here?
    Nope, it's a poorly conceived and broken system that's not worth you wasting time on. Focus on the games actual bread and butter which is character rostering/leveling/champing. If you get one use if you want, but trying to chase them has a 95% chance of just frustrating you. Unless you roster is maxed up it's not worth it IMO.

    This is both accurate and ridiculous.

    The system was (arguably still is) most definitely 'broken' on implementation. The way they initially made obtaining supports and progressing them was absurd, and got a lot of backlash. Which, in my view, is what accounts for much of the lingering 'bad taste' people have about supports. They have been trying to improve on that though (not perfectly imo, but it's getting there). So yeah. On comments regarding 'the system' - accurate.

    Supports themselves, if you get something decent (and by decent I mean gels well with a particular character - it doesn't actually have to be high level) can have a noticeable effect on game play. So to tell someone outright supports are 'not worth wasting time on' - ridiculous.

    You only have to read the suggestions people have already made for which support to equip to which characters to see how they can synergise and speed things up. I know corvus glave has sped PvE up for me numerous times, and you only need level 1 of that*. Supports that have a chance of giving free AP at the start of battles have also helped me significantly. Fortifying special tiles is also useful, though not really game-changing. Etc.

    Yeah, trying to chase a particular support will be crazy frustrating, but supports in and of themselves are actually quite useful (on both my 5* roster and my 2*-3* roster). 

    --

    * Bolded for OPs benefit - you seem to think only high level supports are useful. Not strictly true. :smile:
    Sure, supports are fine, if you can get them.  until there is a way to guarantee what supports to get, we will still be stuck in this loop.  some people claim that they are good and useful, and point to a handful out of the 4 dozen.  then i ask how do i get these, and the answers are always the same: luck.  back and forth. 

    you are able to separate supports from their availability, presumably because you lucked into one of them.  I cannot.  getting supports and having supports are the same thing for me right now, because i cannot get the same good ones as you.  until they put them in progression, or as *attainable* rewards, etc., I will have to agree with broll that concentrating on them is kind of ridiculous.
    Ah, but don't you feel tempted to drop hundreds on the chance to get one of those good supports?
    That seems to be the business model they are hellbent on using, and apparently it works, cause nothing they do changes the underlying RNG mechanic that supports are locked behind.
  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,379 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
     I will have to agree with broll that concentrating on them is kind of ridiculous.
    No one has to 'concentrate' on them. You get the ones you get and invest some red ISO into the ones that offer your characters a little utility. It's as simple as that. They come just by playing the game, just like RISO. The idea that one has to either go all-out on obtaining them or utterly ignore them is what's ridiculous.

    Yes, luck and RNG play a factor. Just like it does trying to obtain character covers. Some players get a royal talon fighter, and some players get stuck with an unripe yaro root. Just like some players got a fully-covered Kitty when she was in tokens, but I ended up with a fully-covered Fatpin. Them's the breaks.

    Now, while we certainly have more avenues for obtaining specific covers than we do supports, that doesn't mean we have to stop rolling the dice and seeing what we get. What else are we going to do with all that red ISO?
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 718 Critical Contributor
    Dormammu said:
    Spudgutter said:
     I will have to agree with broll that concentrating on them is kind of ridiculous.
    No one has to 'concentrate' on them. You get the ones you get and invest some red ISO into the ones that offer your characters a little utility. It's as simple as that. They come just by playing the game, just like RISO. The idea that one has to either go all-out on obtaining them or utterly ignore them is what's ridiculous.

    Yes, luck and RNG play a factor. Just like it does trying to obtain character covers. Some players get a royal talon fighter, and some players get stuck with an unripe yaro root. Just like some players got a fully-covered Kitty when she was in tokens, but I ended up with a fully-covered Fatpin. Them's the breaks.

    Now, while we certainly have more avenues for obtaining specific covers than we do supports, that doesn't mean we have to stop rolling the dice and seeing what we get. What else are we going to do with all that red ISO?
    Sorry, re read the quote, and it was someone calling broll's synopsis as ridiculous. Point still stands, "trying to chase them has a 95% chance of just frustrating you. Unless you roster is maxed up it's not worth it IMO."  Chasing them would be ridiculous.  Semantics of "chasing vs concentrating on," so to each their own. 

    Also, let's not conflate 5* characters with supports.  Getting even one cover of Kitty can help a player at all tiers, due to essentials or synergy with r&g depending on the cover.  Getting a 2* support, lets pick a "good one" that i have and maxed like the milano, is not impacting them nearly as much.  I get a 30% chance for a 75 strength purple tile when the supported character fires a power, base green match damage increased by 60, and if equipped to r&g, a 3turn countdown tile that does at least 856 damage if it survives, plus extra for gotg teammates.  You cannot compare those two things.  Lets take it one step further, and maybe you are lucky enough to get 5 (5!) covers for kitty.  She is even better now, and the cover distribution will have an impact here as well.  Now, say i was "lucky" enough to get 5 covers for that 2* milano.  All i get is that exact same damage it is already at, while getting some riso for getting a dupe, which was also conveniently reduced recently.   

    Any other teir, especially 2*-3*, you are flooded with the them.  And even if you dont have them, the path to getting them in rewards and progression are pretty clear in both pve and pvp, with plenty of opportunity for BH for 3*.  They want to lock out 5* supports just like they do 5* characters?  Thats another conversation.  Right now getting a 1* support is almost as difficult and rng dependent as a 5* character, and that is a little bit ridiculous.

    You also bring up the point of something to spend riso on, in terms of existence of supports.  Having too much of one, and not enough of the other, seems more a flaw than a feature.  
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