Supports seem a bit useless (general discussion)

NotBAMF

I use a few supports, and they are somewhat useful:

1) Ebony Maw **** lv200 equipped to Vulture. 62% chance to start the battle with 3 black AP to get him airborn faster. This is FANTASTIC.

2) Element Guns *** lv150 equipped to Star-Lord. I used to use Star-Lord a lot more pre-Kitty, but this gave a 61% chance of starting with 6 or 9 AP (depending if I went SL/Grocket/Medusa or SL/Grocket/Gamora). This was more useful pre-Kitty.

3) Chimichanga *** lv150 equipped to Gamora. 34% chance to fortify friendly tiles (for Grocket's swords) and 27% chance to get extra red AP on a red match. Same as the E-Guns: it was better before Kitty made Gamira and Star-Lord irrelevant.

4) Korg *** lv150 equipped to Kitty Pryde. 1103 extra health and a 45% chance to start with 3 yellow AP to get her some shields. not great, but better than nothing.

5) Milano ** lv100 equipped to Grocket. Countdown damage tile. Even with my not using Gamora or Star-Lord anymore, it's still a nice little bonus to help speed PVE up a hair.

The problem I have is that I haven't gotten another useful support in FOREVER, and the other high level ones I have are junk (4* web shooters).

MaxPowers

I mainly like them because it speeds up the grinding of pve, and in some cases it gives teams more synergy. I most commonly use supports that fortify tiles because it compliments my BP/Shuri/MrF team, which I have a lot of fun with.

That being said I do worry how they might stymie overall character development. There are so many new characters that feel a little shortchanged, that would play so much better were they granted some of the abilities reserved for supports.

Richyyy

Vhailorx said:

5*s do not have equal match damage strength, making which character tanks what color somewhat unpredictable (and making older 5* less valuable asatch damage values have been creeping up steadily).  Supports can be a great way to make sure that the character you want to tank is, in fact, tanking.

AP and special tile shenanigans are also generally worthwhile.

Some of the unique character effects are good (e.g., okoye + talon fighter).

I've actually been half-waiting for what seems like a pretty obvious idea to me - a negative support. I have the Talon Fighter on Okoye, and that's too useful to switch to something else, but means that she just barely loses out to my Thor for the right to tank a couple of colors. What I need is a 'support' with some mild negative effects, that I could put on Thor to drop his match damage in a couple of places, thus pushing him below Okoye. I accept that it'd be pretty niche, but most of these supports are either thoroughly niche or virtually useless. There'd be a use for it for many players, which is more than you can say for a lot of them.

Ragnoluce

My go-to for this conversation is the Chimichanga on Deadpool in concert with Captain Marvel 4*. Getting a countdown tile to proc with a 50% chance every round means that you can get some serious buffing power pretty quickly in the match. Pair with Grocket or Cloak&Dagger (or another support that generates special tiles) and you can get a lot of stopping power very quickly!

DAZ0273

Most of my Supports are rank pathetic but I do enjoy using my Avengers Tower with IM40 and Korg with GladiaThor for extra shieldy-ness.

I also just discovered that I have rank 3 Blackbird. No idea where it came from or what it does apart from X-Men stuff. Will investigate.

helix72

I have a few favorites, two of them being using the increased match damage to change who tanks which colors and controlling which color is my strongest color, as there are several ability tie-ins to both. As an example against fast spamming goons, I put a support that boosts purple damage on MEHulk, pair him with Strange and Valkyrie, and before you know it I'm dropping gamma powerbombs on everyone.

Jaedenkaal

Projectus2501 said:

Tks for your replies. I also hope supports come one day to PvP. Then they will make a huge difference

I don't think we really want that. PVP is random enough (to our disadvantage) without the AI also having a 40% chance to start the match with 4 Black AP (or whatever).

I'll agree with nearly everyone else here that where they can be used, they're useful enough. I've been using Kimoyo Beads with 4* Gamora pretty much since I got them, and they rarely disappoint.

Heartbreaksoup

I equipped my 3* Strange with a level 100 Vibranium Ore.  Goon levels - particularly the ones with Muscles and Mindless Ones - go a little faster when he's doing 2508 retaliation damage instead of 2114.  There have been some close calls against Tommy Guns or Eyebeams where the extra damage saved my team's bacon.  

Vhailorx

Jaedenkaal said:

Projectus2501 said:

Tks for your replies. I also hope supports come one day to PvP. Then they will make a huge difference

I don't think we really want that. PVP is random enough (to our disadvantage) without the AI also having a 40% chance to start the match with 4 Black AP (or whatever).

I'll agree with nearly everyone else here that where they can be used, they're useful enough. I've been using Kimoyo Beads with 4* Gamora pretty much since I got them, and they rarely disappoint.

Well, this assumes that supports would work for both  sides in pvp.  Couldn't supports only work for the player's team? 

Mechanics that are stronger on offense than defense are self-limiting in pvp, so they tend not to be too OP or game-breaking.

jamesh

bbigler said:

There are some exceptions to the above, but that's how I rate their usefulness. Some of the perks above would be better if they increased something by a percentage instead of a flat rate, such as match damage, damage from powers, health increases, reducing damage and healing. For example, a 4* Vibranium Ore increases damage from powers by 700, which is great for 3* powers but nearly unnoticeable to 5* powers. If it was a percentage increase, like 30% then it would be useful to all tiers not just the lower ones. 

There's the Ancestral Plane support that increases match damage in two colours by a percentage rather than a fixed amount.  Unfortunately there are only three characters in the game it can be attached to.  Further more, only one of those characters is strong in both of those colours, so if you attach it to either of the other two you lose out a bit on the support working with percentages.

bbigler

Enabling supports in PVP for offense only would be great because everyone could take on tougher opponents and get a higher score. I think it would make it easier to climb to 900 or 1200 since there should be more high point targets. It should also increase team variety too.

If supports were enabled on both sides, then PVP would become a lot tougher. Imagine fighting Gritty when they have supports to fortify specials and/or they start the battle with extra specials. Imagine fighting Vulture when they start with 6 black AP.  Imagine fighting Thorkoye when they can start with 9 Green or Yellow AP. This is all possible with our current supports. 

HoundofShadow

If Supports were enabled for the opposing team, the devs better get ready for riot and boycott of PvPs in here

With that being said, it's more likely that support will be enabled for the players in PvP. Afterall, Supports are meant to help players tackle more difficult nodes. 

They could enable Support for the opposing teams of both PvP and PvE in SCL 10.

Lystrata

broll said:

Projectus2501 said:

SUPPORTS - so... I don't understand. Only ppl with great rosters and resources can get high level supports. But supports are useless to those players... I mean... They only are used in pve and those players need zero help in that part of the game... Am I missing something here?

Nope, it's a poorly conceived and broken system that's not worth you wasting time on. Focus on the games actual bread and butter which is character rostering/leveling/champing. If you get one use if you want, but trying to chase them has a 95% chance of just frustrating you. Unless you roster is maxed up it's not worth it IMO.

This is both accurate and ridiculous.

The system was (arguably still is) most definitely 'broken' on implementation. The way they initially made obtaining supports and progressing them was absurd, and got a lot of backlash. Which, in my view, is what accounts for much of the lingering 'bad taste' people have about supports. They have been trying to improve on that though (not perfectly imo, but it's getting there). So yeah. On comments regarding 'the system' - accurate.

Supports themselves, if you get something decent (and by decent I mean gels well with a particular character - it doesn't actually have to be high level) can have a noticeable effect on game play. So to tell someone outright supports are 'not worth wasting time on' - ridiculous.

You only have to read the suggestions people have already made for which support to equip to which characters to see how they can synergise and speed things up. I know corvus glave has sped PvE up for me numerous times, and you only need level 1 of that*. Supports that have a chance of giving free AP at the start of battles have also helped me significantly. Fortifying special tiles is also useful, though not really game-changing. Etc.

Yeah, trying to chase a particular support will be crazy frustrating, but supports in and of themselves are actually quite useful (on both my 5* roster and my 2*-3* roster). 

--

* Bolded for OPs benefit - you seem to think only high level supports are useful. Not strictly true.

tiomono

NotBAMF said:

I use a few supports, and they are somewhat useful:

1) Ebony Maw **** lv200 equipped to Vulture. 62% chance to start the battle with 3 black AP to get him airborn faster. This is FANTASTIC.

2) Element Guns *** lv150 equipped to Star-Lord. I used to use Star-Lord a lot more pre-Kitty, but this gave a 61% chance of starting with 6 or 9 AP (depending if I went SL/Grocket/Medusa or SL/Grocket/Gamora). This was more useful pre-Kitty.

3) Chimichanga *** lv150 equipped to Gamora. 34% chance to fortify friendly tiles (for Grocket's swords) and 27% chance to get extra red AP on a red match. Same as the E-Guns: it was better before Kitty made Gamira and Star-Lord irrelevant.

4) Korg *** lv150 equipped to Kitty Pryde. 1103 extra health and a 45% chance to start with 3 yellow AP to get her some shields. not great, but better than nothing.

5) Milano ** lv100 equipped to Grocket. Countdown damage tile. Even with my not using Gamora or Star-Lord anymore, it's still a nice little bonus to help speed PVE up a hair.

The problem I have is that I haven't gotten another useful support in FOREVER, and the other high level ones I have are junk (4* web shooters).

Put you element guns on kitty if 6ou use her with grocket and you will wonder why you have korg on her.

50% chance on every match she makes to fortify a special. More damage for her on yellow matches. And a 40% chance to create an attack tile every time she fires a power.

PuceMoose

I definitely find use in the fortification/bonus AP on match supports. I have a maxed rank 3 Destroyer Gun, rank 3 Elemental Guns, and rank 4 Shuri's Lab (usually all equipped to Grocket/Medusa/Gamora), and they are usually fortifying a special tile every other turn or so, and the bonus red gets Gamora's red attack online more quickly.

Phumade

Vhailorx said:

Well, this assumes that supports would work for both  sides in pvp.  Couldn't supports only work for the player's team? 

Mechanics that are stronger on offense than defense are self-limiting in pvp, so they tend not to be too OP or game-breaking.

Why only for player side?  players already win way over 75% of matches? 

Why not not on defense?  It’s the one area that all players suffer from?  Even the 500 level whales get beat consistently when they can be queued  I’d love more offense, but  that’s not where my roster needs help.

Dormammu

The only defense in MPQ is, and always has been, intimidating players to press the SKIP button. To suggest otherwise can only be an illusion. Yes, you can get a lucky defensive win here and there (even the AI has its day once in a while) or get a defensive win against a player trying to punch above their roster level. But savvy PvP players with robust rosters are going to beat you no matter what you field because of two simple facts:

- the AI doesn't have 5% of the foresight or intelligence a player has
- the player can cater her/his team specifically to counter yours

If supports ever come to PvP, that's not going to change.

Bowgentle

Dormammu said:

The only defense in MPQ is, and always has been, intimidating players to press the SKIP button. To suggest otherwise can only be an illusion. Yes, you can get a lucky defensive win here and there (even the AI has its day once in a while) or get a defensive win against a player trying to punch above their roster level. But savvy PvP players with robust rosters are going to beat you no matter what you field because of two simple facts:

- the AI doesn't have 5% of the foresight or intelligence a player has
- the player can cater her/his team specifically to counter yours

If supports ever come to PvP, that's not going to change.

The only defense is shields.
Nobody will skip you if you are worth points.

Phumade

Bowgentle said:

Dormammu said:

The only defense in MPQ is, and always has been, intimidating players to press the SKIP button. To suggest otherwise can only be an illusion. Yes, you can get a lucky defensive win here and there (even the AI has its day once in a while) or get a defensive win against a player trying to punch above their roster level. But savvy PvP players with robust rosters are going to beat you no matter what you field because of two simple facts:

- the AI doesn't have 5% of the foresight or intelligence a player has
- the player can cater her/his team specifically to counter yours

If supports ever come to PvP, that's not going to change.

The only defense is shields.
Nobody will skip you if you are worth points.

Maybe the perk is something that affects meta.  I.e. reduces point value by 1/2.  So 37 pointers become 18.  And 75 pars become 37.

If you want to make supports valuable affect the point value or mmr calculations.  

Make it the level 5 perk.  Only high level players can get the volume to gamble for level 5.

Bowgentle

Phumade said:

Bowgentle said:

Dormammu said:

The only defense in MPQ is, and always has been, intimidating players to press the SKIP button. To suggest otherwise can only be an illusion. Yes, you can get a lucky defensive win here and there (even the AI has its day once in a while) or get a defensive win against a player trying to punch above their roster level. But savvy PvP players with robust rosters are going to beat you no matter what you field because of two simple facts:

- the AI doesn't have 5% of the foresight or intelligence a player has
- the player can cater her/his team specifically to counter yours

If supports ever come to PvP, that's not going to change.

The only defense is shields.
Nobody will skip you if you are worth points.

Maybe the perk is something that affects meta.  I.e. reduces point value by 1/2.  So 37 pointers become 18.  And 75 pars become 37.

If you want to make supports valuable affect the point value or mmr calculations.  

Make it the level 5 perk.  Only high level players can get the volume to gamble for level 5.

Lol.
Game code would explode if they tried to code something like that.