MissoesRicRose said: Does anyone know how to explain the exact difference between pulling classics chips and 5 * latests on probability of getting them?
tiomono said: You also need to consider if you want to be top tier when you reach 5* land. Latests will not do that for you after okoye leaves. Wasp, Loki, and kitty are ok to bad. Wasp probably being the worst 5* period. So if you want the good characters you can only find them in classics or you can wait and hope that the next 5* release store will have a top tier character in it. Kitty will have Logan and Phoenix. This is a mid tier store. If you save maybe the next new release store will have a top tier selection. Or it could be banner and ock we do not know. If you want top tier, classics is the only place to get them right now.
Rod5 said:Save and pull Latests when there are 3 good ones would be my advice.
XandorXerxes said:When you say you can champ a 5* in a year or under... are you hitting all rewards in PvE and PvP? Where are all the CP and tokens coming from?
I have hoarded twice to around 300 pulls, both times it took around 3 months. But that is with fivestars already champed so I could hit 1200 in every PvP and get full progression in every PvE.
It can't be understated how important a good farm is though. The more covers you can apply as champion levels, the less waste you will have from your pulls. Also, the champ levels get better as the levels get higher - my CP flow has increased a bit simply because I have bumped a few fourstars high enough that they drop 7 CP rewards now and then. Got to build your roster from the ground up.
Rod5 said: tiomono said: You also need to consider if you want to be top tier when you reach 5* land. Latests will not do that for you after okoye leaves. Wasp, Loki, and kitty are ok to bad. Wasp probably being the worst 5* period. So if you want the good characters you can only find them in classics or you can wait and hope that the next 5* release store will have a top tier character in it. Kitty will have Logan and Phoenix. This is a mid tier store. If you save maybe the next new release store will have a top tier selection. Or it could be banner and ock we do not know. If you want top tier, classics is the only place to get them right now. Yes but you’ll never be able to champ them. I pulled Classics for a long time till I recognised two things:1) dilution is real and significant2) power creep is also very realSave and pull Latests when there are 3 good ones would be my advice.
tiomono said: Rod5 said: tiomono said: You also need to consider if you want to be top tier when you reach 5* land. Latests will not do that for you after okoye leaves. Wasp, Loki, and kitty are ok to bad. Wasp probably being the worst 5* period. So if you want the good characters you can only find them in classics or you can wait and hope that the next 5* release store will have a top tier character in it. Kitty will have Logan and Phoenix. This is a mid tier store. If you save maybe the next new release store will have a top tier selection. Or it could be banner and ock we do not know. If you want top tier, classics is the only place to get them right now. Yes but you’ll never be able to champ them. I pulled Classics for a long time till I recognised two things:1) dilution is real and significant2) power creep is also very realSave and pull Latests when there are 3 good ones would be my advice. Power creep is real? So who would you list as top 5 characters for the tier? At least 2 of the 3 newest (once kitty is live) would not make that list. For me personally latest legends are good for getting a jump start on the 3 in them giving me an easier time to finish them off once they go to classics. My jj, okoye, and ghost rider all made it to 6 covers. My thor made it to 9 and lumbercap made it to 10. I have not had any feeders helping me with these characters yet. So once the feeders get going I will finish them off eventually. My archangel is currently at 12 when he went into classics he was at 8. That is without a feeder.Telling people they can "never" champion a 5* pulling classics is a lie. This is not my opinion, it is statistically true. Pulling from classics works it is just slower progress overall but will get you access to all the characters. Whereas saving all your cp for latests will guarantee you never draw a cover for 24 different characters (and growing) except for bonus heros. Yes hoarding for latests is the most direct route to getting into the 5* tier. But you will miss out on fun synergies with older characters as you will never draw covers for them except for bonus hero's or champion rewards. For me personally never drawing a cover for close to 90% of a tier is unacceptable if I have other options.
justsing said: tiomono said: Rod5 said: tiomono said: You also need to consider if you want to be top tier when you reach 5* land. Latests will not do that for you after okoye leaves. Wasp, Loki, and kitty are ok to bad. Wasp probably being the worst 5* period. So if you want the good characters you can only find them in classics or you can wait and hope that the next 5* release store will have a top tier character in it. Kitty will have Logan and Phoenix. This is a mid tier store. If you save maybe the next new release store will have a top tier selection. Or it could be banner and ock we do not know. If you want top tier, classics is the only place to get them right now. Yes but you’ll never be able to champ them. I pulled Classics for a long time till I recognised two things:1) dilution is real and significant2) power creep is also very realSave and pull Latests when there are 3 good ones would be my advice. Power creep is real? So who would you list as top 5 characters for the tier? At least 2 of the 3 newest (once kitty is live) would not make that list. For me personally latest legends are good for getting a jump start on the 3 in them giving me an easier time to finish them off once they go to classics. My jj, okoye, and ghost rider all made it to 6 covers. My thor made it to 9 and lumbercap made it to 10. I have not had any feeders helping me with these characters yet. So once the feeders get going I will finish them off eventually. My archangel is currently at 12 when he went into classics he was at 8. That is without a feeder.Telling people they can "never" champion a 5* pulling classics is a lie. This is not my opinion, it is statistically true. Pulling from classics works it is just slower progress overall but will get you access to all the characters. Whereas saving all your cp for latests will guarantee you never draw a cover for 24 different characters (and growing) except for bonus heros. Yes hoarding for latests is the most direct route to getting into the 5* tier. But you will miss out on fun synergies with older characters as you will never draw covers for them except for bonus hero's or champion rewards. For me personally never drawing a cover for close to 90% of a tier is unacceptable if I have other options. Never say never. But statistics also say that it’ll take a really long time to make progress towards champing a 5* via Classics. In 350 Latest pulls, you’ll get an average of 52 (sd = 7) 5* covers split among 3 characters, and you’ll finish 2 of them on average (sd = 1) assuming you’re starting from 0/0/0For that same amount of CP, you’ll get 437 Classic pulls, draw an average of 66 (sd = 7) 5* covers split among 24 characters, and you’ll finish 0 of them assuming you’re starting from 0/0/0.Classics are not worth it if your intention is to jump into 5* land, especially if your Classic 5*s are mostly undercovered. Either wait for Latest to feature 3 decent 5*s or wait for a new release store that has a Classic 5* you really want.
tiomono said:Telling people they can "never" champion a 5* pulling classics is a lie. This is not my opinion, it is statistically true. Pulling from classics works it is just slower progress overall but will get you access to all the characters. Whereas saving all your cp for latests will guarantee you never draw a cover for 24 different characters (and growing) except for bonus heros. Yes hoarding for latests is the most direct route to getting into the 5* tier. But you will miss out on fun synergies with older characters as you will never draw covers for them except for bonus hero's or champion rewards. For me personally never drawing a cover for close to 90% of a tier is unacceptable if I have other options.
Phumade said: tiomono said:Telling people they can "never" champion a 5* pulling classics is a lie. This is not my opinion, it is statistically true. Pulling from classics works it is just slower progress overall but will get you access to all the characters. Whereas saving all your cp for latests will guarantee you never draw a cover for 24 different characters (and growing) except for bonus heros. Yes hoarding for latests is the most direct route to getting into the 5* tier. But you will miss out on fun synergies with older characters as you will never draw covers for them except for bonus hero's or champion rewards. For me personally never drawing a cover for close to 90% of a tier is unacceptable if I have other options. It’s definitely true that you can champ a classic in 13 straight pulls. But idi don’t think you considered that math behind dilution.assumpitions6 week cycle = 40 days ( end to make the math easy)assume 100 pulls yields 15 covers simplified for mathworkthis means you 100 classic pulls every cycle to keep up with dilution. At 20cp a pull you 2000 cp every cycle to keep up with dilution. Stated another way, unless your personal daily cp avg is greater than the 5* intro pace, you will ALWAYS fall behind in covering 5*.so the real implication is this. The real obstacle to finishing the 5* tier is “whether your roster can generate the cp to keep up with the pace of 5* introduction.example:my roster can only generate 40 cp a day. So in 6 weeks I make 1600 cp or 80 pulls. 80 pulls yields 12 5*. Even if you assumed all 12 5* were the same character, you’ve actually LOST ground since 13 covers entered the 5* tier. Each successive cycle will put you even further behind.So the fundamental difficulty in creating a 5* champ is whether the roster can generate cp faster than anew 5* character would consume it.(Consume means buy enough pulls to cover a char).if your goal is to champ every 5* as they are released, then ultimately the only thing that matters is whether your roster can generate or buy more resources at a faster rate than the devs can create content to consume those resources.For me personally, the only question I ever ask is will this expenditure of resources enable my roster to generate a bigger daily avg.
tiomono said: Phumade said: It’s definitely true that you can champ a classic in 13 straight pulls. But idi don’t think you considered that math behind dilution.assumpitions6 week cycle = 40 days ( end to make the math easy)assume 100 pulls yields 15 covers simplified for mathworkthis means you 100 classic pulls every cycle to keep up with dilution. At 20cp a pull you 2000 cp every cycle to keep up with dilution. Stated another way, unless your personal daily cp avg is greater than the 5* intro pace, you will ALWAYS fall behind in covering 5*.so the real implication is this. The real obstacle to finishing the 5* tier is “whether your roster can generate the cp to keep up with the pace of 5* introduction.example:my roster can only generate 40 cp a day. So in 6 weeks I make 1600 cp or 80 pulls. 80 pulls yields 12 5*. Even if you assumed all 12 5* were the same character, you’ve actually LOST ground since 13 covers entered the 5* tier. Each successive cycle will put you even further behind.So the fundamental difficulty in creating a 5* champ is whether the roster can generate cp faster than anew 5* character would consume it.(Consume means buy enough pulls to cover a char).if your goal is to champ every 5* as they are released, then ultimately the only thing that matters is whether your roster can generate or buy more resources at a faster rate than the devs can create content to consume those resources.For me personally, the only question I ever ask is will this expenditure of resources enable my roster to generate a bigger daily avg. So are you saying its mathematically impossible to champ a 5* by only using cp to open classics?
Phumade said: It’s definitely true that you can champ a classic in 13 straight pulls. But idi don’t think you considered that math behind dilution.assumpitions6 week cycle = 40 days ( end to make the math easy)assume 100 pulls yields 15 covers simplified for mathworkthis means you 100 classic pulls every cycle to keep up with dilution. At 20cp a pull you 2000 cp every cycle to keep up with dilution. Stated another way, unless your personal daily cp avg is greater than the 5* intro pace, you will ALWAYS fall behind in covering 5*.so the real implication is this. The real obstacle to finishing the 5* tier is “whether your roster can generate the cp to keep up with the pace of 5* introduction.example:my roster can only generate 40 cp a day. So in 6 weeks I make 1600 cp or 80 pulls. 80 pulls yields 12 5*. Even if you assumed all 12 5* were the same character, you’ve actually LOST ground since 13 covers entered the 5* tier. Each successive cycle will put you even further behind.So the fundamental difficulty in creating a 5* champ is whether the roster can generate cp faster than anew 5* character would consume it.(Consume means buy enough pulls to cover a char).if your goal is to champ every 5* as they are released, then ultimately the only thing that matters is whether your roster can generate or buy more resources at a faster rate than the devs can create content to consume those resources.For me personally, the only question I ever ask is will this expenditure of resources enable my roster to generate a bigger daily avg.