What happened with boss event scaling?

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Dragon_Nexus
Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
I remember some months back the scaling for boss sub nodes was fixed. I forget my roster at the time, but unboosted my highest level was probably about 300. I'd have had the 4* characters boosted however, pushing them nearer the 400 mark. The max scaling seemed to peak at about level 250 for me, I believe? It was quicker, more managable and less of a tedious chew on. This seemed to be a deliberate change as a result of player feedback saying the scaling was too much, too fast.

And now the sub nodes are at level ~450. This would match my level 465 boosted 5*, sure, but a baby 5* against almost max level 4*s is not fun. Chewing through 35k-70k health isn't fun. Especially on survival nodes (and what they were thinking of putting Ares as required on a level 447 survival nodes I'll never know).

I can only assume it's because bosses are used for new characters and they don't want to make it too easy, but...this isn't challenging so much as it is boring. A lot of my alliance are tapping out (so to speak) because the sub nodes are too difficult to beat. The boss is fine, but getting to it is the hard part.
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  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
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    Scaling for CW has a smother curve but a higher upper limit. It's always been like this


    It's their "we don't want you to finish both sides" deterrent 

  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    fmftint said:
    Scaling for CW has a smother curve but a higher upper limit. It's always been like this


    It's their "we don't want you to finish both sides" deterrent 

    I'd be happy to just finish one side...
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I forget what your original position on SCL vs Roster based scaling. 

    But this scaling is typical 5* roster scaling.  150k health nodes are pretty standard for the last 4 clears.  (In fact, this is typical for scl9 5e,  so this is all pretty standard for anyone who plays scl9 competitively.

    I have a pretty good suspicion that the nodes scaling is setup to correspond roughly to the various scl.

    There are something like 8 or 9 side node cycles and the
    cycles 1-3 = scl 1-3
    cycles 4-6 = scl 4-6
    cycles 7-9 = scl 7-9

    We should all fully expect that the next node change will be similar to the final enemy levels in scl10.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,546 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
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    Couldn't they do SCL's for boss events and just have the points earned be less the lower you pick? Like how the 5* node scales in PvE?

    My thought here is that weaker rosters would be able to participate later in the event, but the stronger rosters would still be needed to earn the best rewards. I just don't like the idea that weaker rosters are basically shut out with nothing to do.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Borstock said:
    Couldn't they do SCL's for boss events and just have the points earned be less the lower you pick? Like how the 5* node scales in PvE?

    My thought here is that weaker rosters would be able to participate later in the event, but the stronger rosters would still be needed to earn the best rewards. I just don't like the idea that weaker rosters are basically shut out with nothing to do.
    They aren't.
    It's roster based so side nodes remain doable for them until the end.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Only kinda.
    I mean, if the current nodes are designed to push your roster to its limits, a person with a limited roster in the tier they're in is going to struggle. Like, I have a few 5*s going, but I'm struggling a bit. If you were in 4* land with maybe 10 4*s champed and none of them boosted, you're going to struggle because the game's oing to give you tough enemies to chew through.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,546 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Bowgentle said:
    Borstock said:
    Couldn't they do SCL's for boss events and just have the points earned be less the lower you pick? Like how the 5* node scales in PvE?

    My thought here is that weaker rosters would be able to participate later in the event, but the stronger rosters would still be needed to earn the best rewards. I just don't like the idea that weaker rosters are basically shut out with nothing to do.
    They aren't.
    It's roster based so side nodes remain doable for them until the end.
    Oh.

    Then, I don't understand the problem.

  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Can I also point out that if you're in CL9, likely you've done so because your 4*s are near max and/or you have the featured 5* at a high level. PvE normally boosts your 5* up, what, 100 levels? Something like that?

    Bosses boost your 5* by about 15 levels. So to expect you to fight CL9 enemies without the same boosts is a bit ludicrous.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Can I also point out that if you're in CL9, likely you've done so because your 4*s are near max and/or you have the featured 5* at a high level. PvE normally boosts your 5* up, what, 100 levels? Something like that?

    Bosses boost your 5* by about 15 levels. So to expect you to fight CL9 enemies without the same boosts is a bit ludicrous.
    Exactly

    Because all 1000 people in a scl9 has the 5* champed.  LOL plenty of people play 5e nodes with under leveled 5*.  Some even do it with an under leveled 5* essential
  • monsieurmojo
    monsieurmojo Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't feel like SCL9 scaling is that bad; it's fairly easy even for baby champion 5* and boosted 4* (even those well below 370). It's just the third clear and beyond in that 5E node that gets rough without the 5E championed or beefy boosted 4*s. The first two clears in 5E are still pretty accessible to those making the 4*-5* transition (*if* you accept that you're probably not placing very highly). 
  • Asmodaeus
    Asmodaeus Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2018
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    monsieurmojo said:
    I don't feel like SCL9 scaling is that bad; it's fairly easy even for baby champion 5* and boosted 4* (even those well below 370). It's just the third clear and beyond in that 5E node that gets rough without the 5E championed or beefy boosted 4*s. The first two clears in 5E are still pretty accessible to those making the 4*-5* transition (*if* you accept that you're probably not placing very highly). 
    For what it's worth, I manage to place top 50-100 in most CL9 PVEs with just the boosted 4's I have (none of which are over 305, non boosted) and with undercovered, non-leveled 5's. I don't even play optimally. I generally only clear the 5e node twice to get the token and cp, if I can do more I do but it doesn't seem necessary for most events. If I have a tough time clearing it twice I may drop some whales but overall I don't think it's too difficult for the majority of nodes/events to "git er done". The major drawback is the extra time it takes but the payoff in rewards (for prog and even just top 100) makes it worthwhile for me. Now the boss fights are a different animal, especially CW. These later rounds get pretty rough regardless of who's boosted. Seems to be roster based scaling as my highest leveled characters are a couple of 5's @ 330, which is putting the opponents at 330-345 (on second to last flip). But others in my alliance have higher level 5's and its scaling much higher for them. One person has a single 5 @ lvl 400, another one at 345, and the rest are 4's below 310 and his opponents are scaling in the 410-425 range (again second to last flip). 
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,192 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I am officially tired of boss events..... Civil War broke me with the 415 level nodes. I think Civil War is more noticeable in the bad scaling cause there aren't any goon nodes. 


  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,601 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Can I also point out that if you're in CL9, likely you've done so because your 4*s are near max and/or you have the featured 5* at a high level. PvE normally boosts your 5* up, what, 100 levels? Something like that?
    You have an exaggerated view of what is required to do SCL9. My highest 5* is 457, and most of my 4's are sub-300, which I certainly wouldn't call a "high level", and I've been running SCL9 since it launched with moderately high placement.

    Dealing with similar nodes in Civil War is rough because of required characters (like Ares or sub-par 3*s), not because of boosts to 4's and 5's.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    i have no problem with the difficulty, except if the nodes are scaled for a 5* roster, then 3* characters shouldn't be the required characters. unless they're boosted to 450 or something. those wave nodes are basically 6 5* vs 2 5*. the 3* character is almost useless.
  • monsieurmojo
    monsieurmojo Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
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    jredd said:
    i have no problem with the difficulty, except if the nodes are scaled for a 5* roster, then 3* characters shouldn't be the required characters. unless they're boosted to 450 or something. those wave nodes are basically 6 5* vs 2 5*. the 3* character is almost useless.
    ...not to mention that awful Ares node
  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It was tough but we cleared both Team Cap and Team Iron Man. I must have used 25 health packs or so over the last few time slices but let's not forget it was 6 x 4*s and 2 x LT at stake so it's not as if the rewards weren't worth it. I'd much rather it was that tough and high rewards rather than easy with little benefit. 
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    monsieurmojo said:
    jredd said:
    i have no problem with the difficulty, except if the nodes are scaled for a 5* roster, then 3* characters shouldn't be the required characters. unless they're boosted to 450 or something. those wave nodes are basically 6 5* vs 2 5*. the 3* character is almost useless.
    ...not to mention that awful Ares node
    Not to mention that awful Ares WAVE node. 
  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2018
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    Jaedenkaal said:
    monsieurmojo said:
    jredd said:
    i have no problem with the difficulty, except if the nodes are scaled for a 5* roster, then 3* characters shouldn't be the required characters. unless they're boosted to 450 or something. those wave nodes are basically 6 5* vs 2 5*. the 3* character is almost useless.
    ...not to mention that awful Ares node
    Not to mention that awful Ares WAVE node. 
    That was the only node I had issues with. Didn’t help that the first time I played it the enemy team cascaded three turns in a row. My boosted riri got destroyed. Had to retry with rehulk which worked.

    we finished both sides by Sunday morning so the scaling ever got so bad. I don’t even have any characters above level 300 before boosts

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