Original 5 Planeswalker Ability Tweak Suggestions

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Nalthazar
Nalthazar Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
in MtGPQ General Discussion
I have been thinking for a while about what could be done to the original 5 planeswalkers to keep them to some degree true to their original form while tweaking them to make them more viable options in the current game. I think that the ultimate abilities should feel powerful and be game changing. Let me know what you all think of my ideas and hopefully if our new devs like any of them, they might use some of them as inspiration. Please keep in mind that I am putting all of these abilities in as if they were on a level 60 planeswalker. Also, I am only looking at the abilities of the planeswalkers, not their health totals or their mana gains, which should also both be addressed. If you like these ideas, I have more for each of the other underwhelming walkers of old that could use tweaks. 

Liliana:
Ability 1: Stay the same
Ability 2: The last creature of yours that was destroyed is returned to the battlefield
Ability 3: Create a support with, whenever a player discards a card, your opponent takes 8 damage.

This would keep Liliana 1 true to her functionality around discard and give her more of a presence in the current game without too many changes. The ultimate would be like a Megrim effect, which would pair nicely with her first ability and many other cards she can use like Herald of Anguish, Creeping Dread, Infinite Obliteration, and Behold the Beyond to name a few.


Nissa:
Ability 1: Stay the same
Ability 2: Stay the same
Ability 3: Create a support with, whenever a player makes a green landfall, reinforce each creature you control.

Once again, this keeps Nissa true to her origins (pun intended), but turns the ultimate into a potentially scary ability that pairs well with her abilities and other green cards. The ability would be similar to Koth's ultimate, but is situationally stronger as it reinforces, but has the heightened requirement of landfall. 


Chanda:
Ability 1: Stay the same
Ability 2: Fetch the next 2 spells from your library
Ability 3: Create a support with, whenever you cast a spell, copy it and then exile it.

All of the Chandra planeswalkers in this game are terrible, but this could make her become pretty nasty. The ability to twincast spells would pair very nicely with the direct damage spells already in red. Hazoret's Undying Fury would be even more broken with this...


Gideon:
Ability 1: Stay the same
Ability 2: Stay the same
Ability 3: Give each creature you control +3/+3 prevent damage, berserker, trample, and lifelink. 

At face value, the ultimate here looks to be incredibly powerful, but can easily be countered with removal spells. Every color has it's own forms of removal that would work again this. Red would have difficulty, but it has access to cards like Unlicensed Disintegration and Hour of Devastation as workarounds. 

Jace:
Ability 1: Each creature on the battlefield has it's power reduced to 0 until the beginning of your next turn.
Ability 2: Stay the same
Ability 3: Create a support with, whenever you cast a spell, each creature you control gets +4/+4 and gains hexproof until end of turn.

Jace is actually the walker that I had the most difficult time thinking about because the mechanics around him in origins are just completely worthless. The whole trap to drain mana thing is just terrible. 



 


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Comments

  • Phillmoore
    Phillmoore Posts: 207 Tile Toppler
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    This would certainly refresh them.  They are 2 years old now so things have moved forward and this seems to fit with the present game status. 

    It would also feel like i’d got 5 new Planeswalkers for free! 
  • TheDragonHermit
    TheDragonHermit Posts: 465 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2017
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    I would prefer to see walkers that have been or will become next to useless in standard get revamped first for instance for Arlinn Kord:
    Ability 1: Same
    Ability 2: Swap with Arlinn Embraced by the Moon Ability 2
    Ability 3: Same
    and for Arlinn Embraced by the Moon:
    Ability 1: Same
    Ability 2: Swapped with Arlinn Kord Ability 2
    Ability 3: All Werewolves gain doublestrike and trample and Arlinn Embraced by the Moon Transforms
    Or something like that to bring her more in line with her original card and less dependant on a limited cardset to have any access to her abilities.
    C2 looks like she will need some adjustments too before too long.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 544 Critical Contributor
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    I agree the Origins planeswalkers need a revamp. I'll also add that their mana gains need to be adjusted as well.
    Here's an older thread of mine about the same thing.

     https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/60786/origins-planeswalkers-need-a-buff#latest

    I do like some of the ability reworks you've come up with.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Nalthazar

    sweet jeebus that is quite a ramp to those walkers.  I'd be game for seeing some boosts (either somewhat better mana or somewhat better abilities) but I think there has to be some motivation for expanding to other monocolored walkers (motivation for dual/tri-colored walkers being self-explanatory).  With the abilities you've given, new players would be like "Why do I want to spend crystals on Elspeth, Gideon, or any of the charge counter planeswalkeres when these 10 crystal walkers are soooo much better?"

    I wholeheartedly agree they should be boosted a little bit to at least be a bit more competitive (A player shouldn't feel the urge to immediately wave a white flag if their lvl 60 Chandra1 comes face-to-face with a Bolas).  But at the same time, the 10 crystal starter planeswalkers shouldn't be directly on par or better than the 650+ planeswalkers.

    Besides...otherwise, how is Octagon ever really going to make money? ;)
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    I’d mostly like to see their mana bonuses improve.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 544 Critical Contributor
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    @FindingHeart8 just an FYI the Origins planeswalkers are now 50 crystals. Although your point is still valid.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Huh, is it that time of year again when we talk about OG Walker buffs?  As usual you are right that we need them, and as usual your ideas are interesting.

    I agree with @FindingHeart8 that your ideas are a bit overpowered.  Cool conceptually, but way too strong for what they are.

    Also, Grave Mist is one of my favorite walker abilities.  I would hate to see it go.
    Jace's third should not have hexproof, otherwise isn't a bad idea
    Gideon's is waaaay too powerful.  Just so powerful.  I think its ok where it is, although I don't mind weakening the buff and spreading it out.  But lifelink and prevent damage and trample?  Way too much.  I'd say just +4/+4 or +3/+3, defender, bezerker, and regenerate 4 (keeping it similar to the original)
    Chandra's changes I like, except for her spell focus (as in I like the abilities, but not the flavor).  Chandra SHOULD focus on direct damage.  Now give Jace those abilities, and we may have something cool.
    Nissa should only be when YOU make a green match.  Waaaaaay too strong otherwise (probably still too strong to be honest)
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Gravemist looks horrible at level 1 and gives people a bad impression of it, but at higher levels it's _incredibly_ useful. 
    Lill1 should stay as is, she actually has a full toolbox, at least one of her abilities is _always_ useful. People that complain about them aren't thinking well enough about possibilities.


    The mana complaints... I think the new walkers have gone too far, the originals are actually balanced well, it's the newer ones that aren't right and need reigning in.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    You may be right about the newer walkers, but I can’t imagine that Djinni going back into the bottle.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Chandra’s third is really helpful to new players who need creatureless decks. I wouldn’t change it. 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2017
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    Sorin81 said:
    @FindingHeart8 just an FYI the Origins planeswalkers are now 50 crystals. Although your point is still valid.
    50 crystals x4 is a lot to a new player. They have no decent way to get them. 
  • sjechua
    sjechua Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
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    I remember when they used to cost 10C each :cry:
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,935 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bken1234 said:
    Chandra’s third is really helpful to new players who need creatureless decks. I wouldn’t change it. 

    I would make it cost less loyalty. 
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
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    There isn't really a need to change them if there are events like the old Arena events that require players to use specified pw. The old Arena event was a great idea but poorly implemented with secondary objectives contrary to the pw abilities. Ob with a win in 5 rounds or less objective? feels like the old H developer don't even know their own designs. 
  • zolesz
    zolesz Posts: 45 Just Dropped In
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    Cool recommendations, I'd also love to see some improvements to old PWs.


    Jace:
    Ability 1: Each creature on the battlefield has it's power reduced to 0 until the beginning of your next turn.
    Ability 2: Stay the same
    Ability 3: Create a support with, whenever you cast a spell, each creature you control gets +4/+4 and gains hexproof until end of turn.


    What's the point in making creatures hexproof until the end of your turn?
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    honestly most of those revamps would put them above the newest pws we have and still doesnt adress their true problem which is mana gain. g1 is well balanced it needs  to be played defensively and it will shine. i still play on a lot of the higher pve events because with first striking creatures turning them to defenders keeps the board clear and the game a breeze. c1 is just about learning how to keep your loyalty built up to use the second ability to keep the board clear. n1 with all of the green ramp it shouldnt be hard to keep the loyalty built up so her 3rd ability is just another ramp to use when you dont quite have one in hand. j1 honestly at most i would add a few more to his trap on his last and l1 here is pretty good without help discard creatures and race to the last one to bring them back for free
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Sorin81 said:
    @FindingHeart8 just an FYI the Origins planeswalkers are now 50 crystals. Although your point is still valid.
    I did not know that.  I still maintain my overall position, though I can definitely see the counterpoint of them needing at least a bit of an upgrade.

    @bken1234
    50 crystals adds up if you want the entire planeswalker rainbow, but it's not 295 per walker, nor 650, nor whatever the heck bolas is going to turn out to cost.  Story mode was quite generous with crystals, unless they changed that too.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 544 Critical Contributor
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    @FindingHeart8 yes Story Mode is generous with crystals and runes but for new players it is a difficult grind to get those crystals. New players have a very limited card collection and hitting objectives is not easy. Also it's to be noted that some crystals in story mode are only obtainable once you have a rainbow of planeswalkers. 

    I speak from experience, I have an alt account that is a little more than two weeks into the game.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Sorin81

    I haven't forgotten the difficulties of starting off at the beginning, and I do sympathize with beginning players more (1 card per 2 hours seems less rewarding than 3 cards per 8).  I suspect Octagon will fix this at some point though, they've been doing pretty well so far.

    I think a simple solution to this would be for Octagon to give every new player 300 starting crystals, but 50 of it must be used to buy a second planeswalker of their choice.

    I emphasize the must here because many beginning players will be unaware of the significant advantage of having a 2nd color availability instead additional cards from boosters.  Besides, they would still have leftover crystals for a booster or two even they purchased half the planeswalker rainbow.


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